So Who Exactly is Stronger Than Rick Perry in 2016?

[WCH]

I recall quite a lot of Reps making that very claim, back when they loved Christie.

You over generalize...only a small portion of Repubs wanted Christie.

 

[Andalublue]

You over generalize...only a small portion of Repubs wanted Christie.

Back before the hurricane, we had numerous Reps singing his praises with the cheerleader being a die-hard Tea Partier. Your memory of here is understandably short.

 

[ChezC3]

So long as he don't lose his mind like Rubio did with immigration Ted Cruz could very well pull it off. His hat thrown in the ring would decimate the Latino vote for the Dems, decimate it. He has enough fire and passion which can stir the base, he hasn't shown himself to be as worrisome to the establishment as Paul, his record is short enough that there is nothing to pull apart. He's articulate and not afraid to rough it up. He'd leave the much, much, much older Hillary gasping for breath like old Slick Willy did when they were dating in college. Whether he's running in the VP slot or going for the whole enchilada I am gonna say -- the GOP puts this guy on the ticket and they'll have them selves a winner.

 

[soot]

He's a so-called Republican in a very Blue state. What's 'honest' about that?

Since you apparently having been paying attention, you're a so-called Republican in a very blue (and becoming bluer all the time) country.

I probably shouldn't really say that because I don't know you. Maybe you've recently jumped on the Libertarian or Tea party bandwagons. But I expect that if you've been alive long enough to have voted more than once or twice you've been a Republican for most of your life.

So - same difference.

By your, "What's 'honest' about that?" logic neither you, nor anyone else who proports to be conservative in a liberal (and liberalizing) country is honest.

 

[DashingAmerican]

I'd ask, who isn't stronger than Rick Perry 2016?

 

[WCH]

Since you apparently having been paying attention, you're a so-called Republican in a very blue (and becoming bluer all the time) country.

I probably shouldn't really say that because I don't know you. Maybe you've recently jumped on the Libertarian or Tea party bandwagons. But I expect that if you've been alive long enough to have voted more than once or twice you've been a Republican for most of your life.

So - same difference.

By your, "What's 'honest' about that?" logic neither you, nor anyone else who proports to be conservative in a liberal (and liberalizing) country is honest.

Honestly I don't need to boost about my state or it's leaders. Facts speak for themselves.

Last I heard, less than a 1/4th of the country was Liberal, about a 1/3 was squishy middle and the rest considered themselves Conservative.

IMO, what we are currently experiencing in the country is a massive hopey changy brain fart spurred by youthful exuberance... an anomaly.

More than a few people I know who voted for this have strong reservations about doing it again.. Let's see what happens in the mid-term.

Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.

 

[Dragonfly]

I'd ask, who isn't stronger than Rick Perry 2016?

This.

Although it'd be fun to see Perry, Santorum, Bachmann, and Gingrich all come back for another attempt.

What a freakin' circus.

 

[Sisyphus]

This.

Although it'd be fun to see Perry, Santorum, Bachmann, and Gingrich all come back for another attempt.

What a freakin' circus.

They could nominate Jesus Christ and it would not matter. Without a much higher percentage of minority votes, it's a statistical impossibility for Reps to win the Electoral College tally.

 

[soot]

Honestly I don't need to boost about my state or it's leaders. Facts speak for themselves.

Last I heard, less than a 1/4th of the country was Liberal, about a 1/3 was squishy middle and the rest considered themselves Conservative.

IMO, what we are currently experiencing in the country is a massive hopey changy brain fart spurred by youthful exuberance... an anomaly.

More than a few people I know who voted for this have strong reservations about doing it again.. Let's see what happens in the mid-term.

Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.

What you're not taking into consideration is that, over time, even folks who self-describe as "conservative" are becoming more "liberal" in respect to how they feel about many issues.

The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago conducts something called the General Social Survey every other year (it was every year from 1972 through 1994).

They ask more or less the same questions every time they conduct the survey in order to measure American attitudes toward social issues longitudinally.

Over time, in almost every category of social issue (race relations, feminisim, morals, drug use, religion, etc...) American attitudes are becoming more and more liberal.

That's true both for folks who identify as liberals and for folks who identify as conservatives (everyone taking the survey is required to self-identify).

In 1974 38.3% of self-identified conservatives were opposed to interracial marriage, by 2010 it had dropped to 8.7%.

In 1974 80.4% of self-identified conservatives said they would vote for a (in all respects qualified) African American presidential candidate, by 2010 it had climbed to 95.6%.

In 1974 76.8% of self-identified conservatives said they would vote for a (in all respects qualified) female presidential candidate, by 2010 it had climbed to 95.3%.

In 1974 8.2% of self-identified conservatives were acceptant of sexual relations between two adults of the same sex, by 2010 it had climbed to 27.4%.

In 1974 8.8% of self-identified conservatives said that Homosexual couples should have the right to marry one another, by 2010 it had climbed to 23.3%.

It goes on like that all the way across the board.

So a "conservative" today isn't the same thing as a "conservative" 30 or 40 years ago.

But the leadership of the Republican Party seems not to have gotten that memo.

So they take untennable positions in opposition to a wide range of social issues that the large majority of American have no real problem with.

And then they hammer those position and choose candidates from among the most virulently fundamentalist recesses of the Party.

So yeah, let's wait 'til the midterms...

 

[Dragonfly]

They could nominate Jesus Christ and it would not matter. Without a much higher percentage of minority votes, it's a statistical impossibility for Reps to win the Electoral College tally.

I would almost guarantee that a conservative/republican could win if that person would be more like a Ross Perot type that would focus solely on fiscal issues, unemployment, and the economy.

 

[soot]

I would almost guarantee that a conservative/republican could win if that person would be more like a Ross Perot type that would focus solely on fiscal issues, unemployment, and the economy.

What?

And stay out of other peoples' bedrooms?

ARE YOU OUTOFYOURFREAKINGMIND!!!!

For really doh, I agree 110%.

If one of those ran I'd go back to voting Republican in a heartbeat.

Until then, I'll continue "wasting my vote" by voting for third-party candidates who don't make a mockery of the Constitution.

 

[Captain America]

Gov. Rick Perry truly does have an impressive record and he should be on top of the list to run in 2016, however, unfortunately he made a few public mistakes in 2012 that reduce his standing. I am not saying he can't come back from that, but it is something he would have to deal with. I have been paying attention to Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio and at least one of them (maybe even all three) is going to go for it in 2016. The other day I watched Ted Cruz on C-SPAN give an extemporaneous speech and take questions and the man is impressive.

First and foremost, let's talk about "image." The brunt of America thinks Perry is a clown. Second, they think Texas is a back-wooded, theocratic, hick state. Most of America wants nothing to do with either of them. Jesus himself could run for President but if he was from Texas, he would have a heavy cross to bear. (Pardon the pun.)

Now, whether Perry is a clown or Texas is a bible driven hick state, that may be true or it may be false. But that's the image it has beyond it's borders. And, as a native Texan myself, it pains me to point this out. But it is what it is and Perry doesn't stand a chance of becoming the president of America. And I will bet anyone a hundred dollars, right here and right now, that if the GOP runs Perry, or any Texan republican, for that matter, they will lose.

 

[Porchev]

First and foremost, let's talk about "image." The brunt of America thinks Perry is a clown. Second, they think Texas is a back-wooded, theocratic, hick state. Most of America wants nothing to do with either of them. Jesus himself could run for President but if he was from Texas, he would have a heavy cross to bear. (Pardon the pun.)

Now, whether Perry is a clown or Texas is a bible driven hick state, that may be true or it may be false. But that's the image it has beyond it's borders. And, as a native Texan myself, it pains me to point this out. But it is what it is and Perry doesn't stand a chance of becoming the president of America. And I will bet anyone a hundred dollars, right here and right now, that if the GOP runs Perry, or any Texan republican, for that matter, they will lose.

Wow, really? Who are all these ignorant people that have negative perceptions of Texas? Perception is a lazy person's reality, just because they think it, doesn't mean it is true. Sounds like the same people that have some idiotic ideas about the South. Or people that refer to the middle of the country as fly over states. Texas is a very diverse and great State and they are doing a lot of things right. Many other states can learn a lot from Texas if they weren't acting so close-minded by discounting such a great state. And I am not even from Texas or the South. I am from California.

Oh, and just for record, love him or hate him, there was a two term President from Texas kind of recently.

 

[SgtRock]

I am a Texas conservative and I believe that Bozo the Clown is stronger then Perry in 2016 and he's been dead for years. And another thing, Texas has some of the friendliest people in the country. I love Texas, great place to start a business and raise a family. But Rick Perry is an idiot.

 

[LowDown]

First and foremost, let's talk about "image." The brunt of America thinks Perry is a clown. Second, they think Texas is a back-wooded, theocratic, hick state. Most of America wants nothing to do with either of them. Jesus himself could run for President but if he was from Texas, he would have a heavy cross to bear. (Pardon the pun.)

Now, whether Perry is a clown or Texas is a bible driven hick state, that may be true or it may be false. But that's the image it has beyond it's borders. And, as a native Texan myself, it pains me to point this out. But it is what it is and Perry doesn't stand a chance of becoming the president of America. And I will bet anyone a hundred dollars, right here and right now, that if the GOP runs Perry, or any Texan republican, for that matter, they will lose.

You go right on believing that nonsense about Texas, sonny. Meanwhile Texas will go right on running rings around you ignorant, arrogant, stuck up, effete dinosaurs for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dragonfly]

Meanwhile Texas will go right on running rings around you ignorant, arrogant, stuck up, effete dinosaurs for the foreseeable future.

Ummm......what rings is Texas running around who? Relative to what? :thinking

 

[Strucker]

Wow, really? Who are all these ignorant people that have negative perceptions of Texas? Perception is a lazy person's reality, just because they think it, doesn't mean it is true.

A fair point. We have similar reflexive prejudices in Canada regarding our different regions: Quebeckers are whiny and entitled, Albertans are redneck morons, Torontonians are arrogant, Maritimers are lazy....etc.

Oh, and just for record, love him or hate him, there was a two term President from Texas kind of recently.

But to be fair, his New England pedigree is at least as big a part of him.

 

[Captain America]

Wow, really? Who are all these ignorant people that have negative perceptions of Texas? Perception is a lazy person's reality, just because they think it, doesn't mean it is true. Sounds like the same people that have some idiotic ideas about the South. Or people that refer to the middle of the country as fly over states. Texas is a very diverse and great State and they are doing a lot of things right. Many other states can learn a lot from Texas if they weren't acting so close-minded by discounting such a great state. And I am not even from Texas or the South. I am from California.

Oh, and just for record, love him or hate him, there was a two term President from Texas kind of recently.

I agree. The Texas I know has awesome universities, museums, symphonies, world class hospitals, and the list goes on. It is not truly a Bugtussle place with tumbleweeds blowing down the streets. I know that and people who live in Texas know that. But that is not the image Texas has beyond it's borders. We can thank modern country music for helping to perpetuate that false image. (Chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit.) We can also thank grandstanding politicians like Cruz for making it seem backward and against the flow of modern mainstream viewpoints. Add that goofball Perry and President Bush's disastrous "two-terms," and that's the image this great state is left with whether true or not.

Image, whether true or not, is a big part of political support. Today's politicians are a product of marketing and public relations experts. We really don't know them at all. Texas needs to get another public relation's director. It has become rather embarrassing to talk about my Texas upbringing anywhere but Texas. Of course, in Texas, the attitude is that Texas is the greatest place in the whole wide world to be. Before I escaped, I thought the same thing. Travel really opens one's eyes up and gives them different perspectives.

 

[Dragonfly]

I agree. The Texas I know has awesome universities, museums, symphonies, world class hospitals, and the list goes on. It is not truly a Bugtussle place with tumbleweeds blowing down the streets. I know that and people who live in Texas know that. But that is not the image Texas has beyond it's borders. We can thank modern country music for helping to perpetuate that false image. (Chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit.) We can also thank grandstanding politicians like Cruz for making it seem backward and against the flow of modern mainstream viewpoints. Add that goofball Perry and President Bush's disastrous "two-terms," and that's the image this great state is left with whether true or not.

Image, whether true or not, is a big part of political support. Today's politicians are a product of marketing and public relations experts. We really don't know them at all. Texas needs to get another public relation's director. It has become rather embarrassing to talk about my Texas upbringing anywhere but Texas. Of course, in Texas, the attitude is that Texas is the greatest place in the whole wide world to be. Before I escaped, I thought the same thing. Travel really opens one's eyes up and gives them different perspectives.

Don't forget the Texas Board Of Education trying to write science out of science books, and trying to install religion into science books....

 

[Captain America]

Don't forget the Texas Board Of Education trying to write science out of science books, and trying to install religion into science books....

I didn't forget. The list is long. I can't possibly cover them all.

I may not agree with the "Texas," image beyond it's borders. But I can certainly understand how it got that way.

 

[Anagram]

So long as he don't lose his mind like Rubio did with immigration Ted Cruz could very well pull it off. His hat thrown in the ring would decimate the Latino vote for the Dems, decimate it. He has enough fire and passion which can stir the base, he hasn't shown himself to be as worrisome to the establishment as Paul, his record is short enough that there is nothing to pull apart. He's articulate and not afraid to rough it up. He'd leave the much, much, much older Hillary gasping for breath like old Slick Willy did when they were dating in college. Whether he's running in the VP slot or going for the whole enchilada I am gonna say -- the GOP puts this guy on the ticket and they'll have them selves a winner.

Unfortunately, I doubt that's true. He only outperformed Romney among Hispanics by about 6% still losing it to Sadler by 30. In a vp slot I'd expect even less an effect.

 

[ChezC3]

Unfortunately, I doubt that's true. He only outperformed Romney among Hispanics by about 6% still losing it to Sadler by 30. In a vp slot I'd expect even less an effect.

Well, it might be as you say, I can only go by my gut -- which is unproven on this forum -- but on the last one, showed to be quite reliable.

That being said, it has been my experience that Latino's are extremely tribal. Any and every position of authority I've seen one in has shown an overwhelming influx of Latino workers into the business. To the point of it almost being exclusive in some cases. The same reason of racial recognition which brings the black vote to black candidates I see no reason why -- based on other observances -- that this wouldn't be the case in this event. A Latino President? A Latino VP? This is such a milestone, such a matter of pride that I don't see any significant portion of the general latino population going against him.

This isn't the only reason for my opinion but it does play a role.

 

[Anagram]

Well, it might be as you say, I can only go by my gut -- which is unproven on this forum -- but on the last one, showed to be quite reliable.

That being said, it has been my experience that Latino's are extremely tribal. Any and every position of authority I've seen one in has shown an overwhelming influx of Latino workers into the business. To the point of it almost being exclusive in some cases. The same reason of racial recognition which brings the black vote to black candidates I see no reason why -- based on other observances -- that this wouldn't be the case in this event. A Latino President? A Latino VP? This is such a milestone, such a matter of pride that I don't see any significant portion of the general latino population going against him.

This isn't the only reason for my opinion but it does play a role.

I think that's something that seems like it should be true, but generally isn't. Even in very Republican 2010 popular governors Susana Martinez and Brian Sandoval only won 38% and 33% of the Hispanic vote. Marco Rubio won the Hispanic vote, but only 40% of the non-Cuban Hispanic vote. Just like the few occasions when Black Republicans have run against white Democrats, the Hispanic voters still vote overwhelmingly Democratic. They can mitigate the landslide somewhat, but not enough to make it close. Especially if he's only a VP candidate, I don't think his presence on the ballot will convince many people to vote for him just because he'd be a Hispanic milestone.

I also think Cruz would be a less than ideal candidate because of the ease of portraying him as extremist. For good or for bad, more libertarian candidates like Cruz have trouble attracting a national audience. The fact that he couldn't even outperform Romney in Texas against a weak Democratic candidate is also concerning about his ability attracting a national audience. Considering the friction he's had with other Republicans I also think he'd have trouble acquiring the endorsements, allies, and money necessary to win a competitive primary and could also hurt him in the general election.

I like a lot of what Cruz brings to the table, but if I look at it realistically, I don't see him one of the stronger Republican candidates.

 

[ChezC3]

I think that's something that seems like it should be true, but generally isn't. Even in very Republican 2010 popular governors Susana Martinez and Brian Sandoval only won 38% and 33% of the Hispanic vote. Marco Rubio won the Hispanic vote, but only 40% of the non-Cuban Hispanic vote. Just like the few occasions when Black Republicans have run against white Democrats, the Hispanic voters still vote overwhelmingly Democratic. They can mitigate the landslide somewhat, but not enough to make it close. Especially if he's only a VP candidate, I don't think his presence on the ballot will convince many people to vote for him just because he'd be a Hispanic milestone.

I also think Cruz would be a less than ideal candidate because of the ease of portraying him as extremist. For good or for bad, more libertarian candidates like Cruz have trouble attracting a national audience. The fact that he couldn't even outperform Romney in Texas against a weak Democratic candidate is also concerning about his ability attracting a national audience. Considering the friction he's had with other Republicans I also think he'd have trouble acquiring the endorsements, allies, and money necessary to win a competitive primary and could also hurt him in the general election.

I like a lot of what Cruz brings to the table, but if I look at it realistically, I don't see him one of the stronger Republican candidates.

A lot of what you say makes sense, like I said,this is my gut, and I am looking if his rising trajectory continues for the next couple years leading up to the election, time will tell I suppose.

I do think it a mistake to continue the current narrative that essentially Conservatives need to be more like Democrats. Basically this be 3 inches off the line to the right of the middle. What Conservatives need to do, regardless of the candidate is get back to being conservative and get back to creating a narrative that sways the middle rather than keep spouting ideological pontifications to anyone who will listen. That might look good on paper, but it has 0 emotional appeal.

 

[Anagram]

A lot of what you say makes sense, like I said,this is my gut, and I am looking if his rising trajectory continues for the next couple years leading up to the election, time will tell I suppose.

I do think it a mistake to continue the current narrative that essentially Conservatives need to be more like Democrats. Basically this be 3 inches off the line to the right of the middle. What Conservatives need to do, regardless of the candidate is get back to being conservative and get back to creating a narrative that sways the middle rather than keep spouting ideological pontifications to anyone who will listen. That might look good on paper, but it has 0 emotional appeal.

I'm not really arguing the Republicans have to become more liberal, just stay away from anything that can get them easily labeled as extreme or purposefully making provocative statements. I think that's the real difference, rather than ideology, between Conservatives who can get elected statewide and nationwide and those who consistently underperform what they should. For example, there's really little ideological difference between Mead Treadwell, Sarah Palin, and Joe Miller in Alaska but one of them, Treadwell, has a good shot at beating Mark Begich and the other two have little chance.