So this mentally ill person walks in a gun store, oh you've heard this one huh?

[Green Balls]

Background checks are useful to weed out the people who have previously committed a gun related offense. In addition to that, you should have to take a psychological exam. You can complain all you want if you don't like that idea.

You don't get to drive a car because you bought it. You have to get a license and go through all of that before you can drive. You shouldn't be allowed to get a gun just because you want to buy one. This list can go on and on and that is why we have rules and laws in place.

 

[presluc]

I would say the most interesting part of this story, so far, that hasn't been fully teased out, is the fact that this man was in the Navy and received a general discharge because of behavioural problems he had while in the service. If such is the case, why does not the US military flag such people in every state for concern when looking to purchase a weapon? and perhaps more importantly, why did this man get security clearance to enter the base as part of a consulting firm's staff when the Navy knew he had problems in that environment previously?

Somebody, or maybe many somebodies, dropped the ball here.

I say somebodies did drop the ball here.

Not defending the role of the military in this , for I'm pretty sure somebody is going on the carpet military.

However this is not the first time that mentally ill people bought a gun or guns leagel.eace

 

[Fisher]

All black people look alike ?
Columbine white
Denver movie white need I go on?
I like it here I lost two threads one cost me an infraction.eace

Yes you need to go on since columbine and the aurora shooters did not use false ID's to gain access to a government run military installation.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I don't think NICS or the Federal Golvernment owns a gun shop in Virginia that is private business.

Didn't get the shotgun from NICS or the Federal Government , got it at a gun store in Virginia.eace

Are you serious??? A background check is conducted by the FBI's National Instant Check System (NCIS). FBI — Gun Checks/NICS

Stores are required to take the Identification of a purchaser, and input the required information into the system. If it pops up okay they can sell you the weapon. If it states "denied" you can contact the authorities to appeal.

 

[molten_dragon]

Are you telling me that the gun store owner in Virginia ran a background check and none of his arrest records showed up ?

Odd, if I get pulled over by the police, after they get my name and drivers licence number they can run mine in minutes.
If I apply for a credit card they run a background check , if I move into an apartment they run a background check for any criminal record.
So this gun shop owner he what?, was in a hurry or just busy with another customer, maybe just didn't want to bother with red tape?eace

What does an arrest record have to do with being mentally ill?

 

[WCH]

Are you telling me that the gun store owner in Virginia ran a background check and none of his arrest records showed up ?

Odd, if I get pulled over by the police, after they get my name and drivers licence number they can run mine in minutes.
If I apply for a credit card they run a background check , if I move into an apartment they run a background check for any criminal record.
So this gun shop owner he what?, was in a hurry or just busy with another customer, maybe just didn't want to bother with red tape?eace

The FBI database folks either tell you 'yes or no', the are no details. Gun dealers have verification numbers that go on the form that they must retain. There are severe penalties for not following the regulations precisely.

So your fantasy is just that.

 

[WCH]

I would say the most interesting part of this story, so far, that hasn't been fully teased out, is the fact that this man was in the Navy and received a general discharge because of behavioural problems he had while in the service. If such is the case, why does not the US military flag such people in every state for concern when looking to purchase a weapon? and perhaps more importantly, why did this man get security clearance to enter the base as part of a consulting firm's staff when the Navy knew he had problems in that environment previously?

Somebody, or maybe many somebodies, dropped the ball here.

Sequester?


From what I hear, there's a 250,000 person backlog for returning veterans with mental and other disorders. He was likely one of them.

 

[WCH]

fine line between insanity and genius. the insane are not always ignorant some score very high on IQ test

True that...I'm highly intelligent but know I need to self medicate to stay on an even keel. :drink vs :shoot

 

[CanadaJohn]

Sequester?


From what I hear, there's a 250,000 person backlog for returning veterans with mental and other disorders. He was likely one of them.

Sequester? You mean that convenient excuse now in place for every failing of the US federal government and the millions of people still employed there? That sequester? I could be wrong, but seems to me that most everything that went wrong with Mr. Alexis happened well in advance of the sequester coming into law earlier this year. And as a Naval Reservist, I'm not aware that he was a "returning veteran with mental and other disorders", just a troubled man who was discharged from the Navy because of many disciplinary problems and who for whatever God-forsaken reason retained his secret military clearance even though he was basically kicked out of the military.

Maybe, instead of blaming it on reining in the obscene spending levels of government, we could start putting consequences in place for government bureaucrats who screw up and cause 12 decent people their lives simply because they went to work one morning in September.

 

[WCH]

Sequester? You mean that convenient excuse now in place for every failing of the US federal government and the millions of people still employed there? That sequester? I could be wrong, but seems to me that most everything that went wrong with Mr. Alexis happened well in advance of the sequester coming into law earlier this year. And as a Naval Reservist, I'm not aware that he was a "returning veteran with mental and other disorders", just a troubled man who was discharged from the Navy because of many disciplinary problems and who for whatever God-forsaken reason retained his secret military clearance even though he was basically kicked out of the military.

Maybe, instead of blaming it on reining in the obscene spending levels of government, we could start putting consequences in place for government bureaucrats who screw up and cause 12 decent people their lives simply because they went to work one morning in September.

Trust me, I make no excuses for our FedGov. None.

 

[presluc]

fine line between insanity and genius. the insane are not always ignorant some score very high on IQ test

THERE IS NO LINE BETWEEN ALIVE AND DEAD AND PEOPLE ARE DEAD SHOT BY A MENTALLY ILL PERSON WITH A GUN HE BOUGHT LEAGLE EVEN WITH HIS ARREST RECORD OF MISUSE OF FIRING A GUN IN PUBLIC I WANT TO KNOW HOW HE GOT THE SHOTGUN SO EASY WITH AN ARREST RECORD?eace

 

[presluc]

Well, I'd guess that number is rather large, since the ACLU was responsible for legal actions that led to turning mentally ill patients out onto the streets.

I'm not attempting to be partisan. I mearly provided the genesis to the question.

Distraction won't work with me.

Lets talk about the BACKGROUND CHECKS SHALL WE.

I want to know why I sign up for an apartment they run a credit and criminal record and a mentally ill person arrested twice walkds into a gun stare buys a shotgun kills people and nobody is asking the gun store owner anything.
Illegal arms sales is illegal ya know,.
Know why ? ,cause when it happens people get killed.eace

 

[ocean515]

Distraction won't work with me.

Lets talk about the BACKGROUND CHECKS SHALL WE.

I want to know why I sign up for an apartment they run a credit and criminal record and a mentally ill person arrested twice walkds into a gun stare buys a shotgun kills people and nobody is asking the gun store owner anything.
Illegal arms sales is illegal ya know,.
Know why ? ,cause when it happens people get killed.eace

If distraction won't work with you, why would you think it would work with me?

The thread topic sets up a scenario about a mentally ill person walking into a store.

You're bringing up illegal gun sales.

What does that have to do with anything?

ZERO. Much like your point.

 

[presluc]

You might as well have left the "peace" sign off the end, after dissing everything I said and the story as well, which is simply factual information that can be verified elsewhere.

Never understood why "peace" people are so often intellectually and verbally violent towards anyone who doesn't go along with their script.


Don't bother replying, I'm no longer interested.

I like my peace sign , you don't try not to look at it.
Funny everybody wants peace , show them a sign of it they get critical .

Never understood why when a crazy person gets a gun kills people including kids, the first thing some people do instead of coming up with some idea on how to stop these tragedies from happening , they say this was just a fluke everything about background checks is just fine , and people keep getting killed by a mentally ill persons with guns , but the NRA, the gun mearchants are running out of excuses.
The 2nd amendment is not going anywhere honest good people will always have the right of the 2nd amendment the mentally ill is on shaky ground , the gun merchants might want to watch their back, one day some mentally ill person is going to buy a gun leagal and kill the wrong person.eace

 

[presluc]

Thes are the rules regarding what disqualifies a person from purchasing a gun during a background check:



Firearms - How To - Identify Prohibited Persons | ATF

Notice all the highlighted words? Like CONVICTED, ADJUDICATED, DISHONORABLE, currently indicted?

See anything stating previously "arrested" or "under treatment"?

The man qualified to purchase a gun, and rightly so. Many people are arrested for crimes and never convicted. Many people are undergoing therapy, and never commit acts of violence.

There is literally no way to absolutely prevent a person from acting out violently except locking him up and throwing away the key. You ready to build a massive jail and lock all of us up in solitary, including yourself, then throwing away the keys??? :shrug:

Many people are not convicted cause they walk on a tech, or plead out turn states, I could go on.
It's odd that the DMD, Apartment complexes , applications for a job can find records of criminal, credit, and mental illness , but gun merchants can't.
Never saw anybody get killed from a state ID , never saw an apartment used as a weapon , never saw somebody use a job as ammunition , but I've seen innocent people die from gunshot wound, fired by a mentally ill person with a gun legally bought.eace

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Many people are not convicted cause they walk on a tech, or plead out turn states, I could go on.
It's odd that the DMD, Apartment complexes , applications for a job can find records of criminal, credit, and mental illness , but gun merchants can't.
Never saw anybody get killed from a state ID , never saw an apartment used as a weapon , never saw somebody use a job as ammunition , but I've seen innocent people die from gunshot wound, fired by a mentally ill person with a gun legally bought.eace

Gun dealers don't do the background check. They make a call to the Feds with the name and SS# and wait about 10 minutes for a decision, so if you want to place blame, once again you'll need to look at the government...

 

[presluc]

Like it or not, that's how our legal system works.

Our legal system used to have slaves , our legal system at one time did not permit women to vote.
Our legal system changed then it can change again.
eace

 

[presluc]

Background checks are useful to weed out the people who have previously committed a gun related offense. In addition to that, you should have to take a psychological exam. You can complain all you want if you don't like that idea.

You don't get to drive a car because you bought it. You have to get a license and go through all of that before you can drive. You shouldn't be allowed to get a gun just because you want to buy one. This list can go on and on and that is why we have rules and laws in place.

Finally someone with an idea rather than an excuse.
My compliments sir.eace

 

[presluc]

Yes you need to go on since columbine and the aurora shooters did not use false ID's to gain access to a government run military installation.

I'm not talking about government instalations that's the government problem ,

Gun merchants background checks that is what this is about not the first time this has happened and not the first victim to die either think Virginia Tech the excuses were pretty much the same had a police report on him too gun the security was checked , the cops were checked the students were checked ,, the data on this individual was checked, but the gun merchant WELL NOT SO MUCH.eace

 

[presluc]

Are you serious??? A background check is conducted by the FBI's National Instant Check System (NCIS). FBI — Gun Checks/NICS

Stores are required to take the Identification of a purchaser, and input the required information into the system. If it pops up okay they can sell you the weapon. If it states "denied" you can contact the authorities to appeal.

You know every time innocent people die like this it's nobody's fault it's not the stores fault ,it's not the government's fault, it's not technology in America's fault .
However people and kids keep dieing this way a mentally ill person walks into a gun store buys a gun and kills innocent people and some people of America say well too bad that's sad , back to business until the next mentally ill person walks into a gun store buys a gun or has easy access to get a gun.
However some of us don't like to see innocent American's killed because it might be inconvenient for somebody to buy a gun.
I ask the same question I ask on a thread about the Virginia tech killings , IS THERE A BETTER WAY FOR GUN SALES AND BACKGROUND CHECKS?eace

 

[presluc]

What does an arrest record have to do with being mentally ill?

What you think no crazy people commits crimes

Maybe they run a background check to see if the criminal is mentally ill or not before he commits the crime.huh?eace

 

[molten_dragon]

What you think no crazy people commits crimes

Maybe they run a background check to see if the criminal is mentally ill or not before he commits the crime.huh?eace

So then you don't actually want to prevent mentally ill people from getting guns, you want to prevent criminals from getting guns. The background checks we already have do that.

I assumed that you meant you wanted to find a way to prevent mentally ill people with no criminal record from buying guns.

 

[presluc]

The FBI database folks either tell you 'yes or no', the are no details. Gun dealers have verification numbers that go on the form that they must retain. There are severe penalties for not following the regulations precisely.

So your fantasy is just that.

Not quite , you left out the law of average or odds if you prefer.

Because to my knowledge no gun dealer has ever been charged for any penalty.
That's pretty long odds for the amount of innocent people dead including kids .
You are mistaking my use of the word "gun control" for gun purchase control.

Let me explain it this way in an interrogative sentence.

Why doesn't America want Iran to have nuclear weapons ?
Answer, they are afraid they would use them or give them to somebody that would use them against America.
Think like that only on a smaller scale.eace

 

[Captain Adverse]

Many people are not convicted cause they walk on a tech, or plead out turn states, I could go on.

Of course you could "go on" but it wouldn't matter, unless a person has been convicted of a crime they must be treated as any other citizen who was arrested but not convicted; as if they were not guilty. Furthermore, pleading out leads to a conviction and turning states evidence does not alway lead to freedom either. Those who turn "states evidence" unsually fall into one of two categories; either not truly culpable/minorly culpable, or their evidence is so important that they get to plead to a lesser charge in exchange for their testimony.

It's odd that the DMD, Apartment complexes , applications for a job can find records of criminal, credit, and mental illness , but gun merchants can't. Never saw anybody get killed from a state ID , never saw an apartment used as a weapon , never saw somebody use a job as ammunition , but I've seen innocent people die from gunshot wound, fired by a mentally ill person with a gun legally bought.eace

Well that's because the right to bear arms is just that; a RIGHT guaranteed by the Constitution. You see any right to a job, housing, or a drivers license listed in the U.S. Constitution?

Again, there is no way to absolutely prevent people from acting violently...unless you lock us all up in solitary. I guess you don't want that to happen anytime soon, so what's your point?

You know every time innocent people die like this it's nobody's fault it's not the stores fault ,it's not the government's fault, it's not technology in America's fault .

WRONG! The person who acted out violently is to blame. Period!

However people and kids keep dieing this way a mentally ill person walks into a gun store buys a gun and kills innocent people and some people of America say well too bad that's sad , back to business until the next mentally ill person walks into a gun store buys a gun or has easy access to get a gun.
However some of us don't like to see innocent American's killed because it might be inconvenient for somebody to buy a gun.
I ask the same question I ask on a thread about the Virginia tech killings , IS THERE A BETTER WAY FOR GUN SALES AND BACKGROUND CHECKS?eace

Cry me a river...sheesh. If it were up to me there would be no "background checks." People need to understand that self-defense is their own responsibility. Law enforcement cannot save you unless government enacts rules and regulations to give them so much power over you that you have enslaved yourself, and become their victim.

A better way? Start teaching people to be responsible citizens, watching out for themselves and each other. That way next time someone pulls a gun and starts shooting away? 50 people trained in weapons uses shoot him dead.

 

[Fisher]

I'm not talking about government instalations that's the government problem ,

Gun merchants background checks that is what this is about not the first time this has happened and not the first victim to die either think Virginia Tech the excuses were pretty much the same had a police report on him too gun the security was checked , the cops were checked the students were checked ,, the data on this individual was checked, but the gun merchant WELL NOT SO MUCH.eace

How would a gun merchant have known the guy in the VPI shooting was nuts?