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So, the country is divided into 'right-wing media zombies', and 'the rest'

Craig234

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Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'? Tax policy, economic policy, environmental protections, overpopulation challenges, civil rights - the finer points of reasonable options? Don't you get tired of what I call 'fly-swatting'? 'No, Biden is not a pedophile. No, Hunter Biden didn't use his $2 billion from China to steal the 2020 election. No, climate change isn't a George Soros funded hoax. No, transgender people aren't out to annoy people as why they do it.

The Nazi party got more votes election after election usually, until they won. In a country viewed as the most rational, democratic, civilized country, with far fewer propaganda tools.

We're seeing the increasing radicalization of American voters, creating a vise on the suckers who fall for it. It's like an onion with layers of reasons why they wouldn't even think of voting for a Democrat, and it's growing. It's not based on 'issues', it's based on zealotry pumped into them daily.

It's pretty much gotten to where the two groups have little to say to one another. They can talk if it doesn't involve the parties. They can talk about sports, or travel, or food. But not about issues the right and left disagree on - on those, it's only insults mostly, and repeating information (Democrats) and misinformation (Republicans).

Any sense of the country having a viewpoint is mostly lost and all there is to the politics is waiting to see who wins elections - with those fought over with lies also. No problem, both sides think they won.

And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right. You can't talk to someone and overcome what they heard from ten right-wing pundits for hours day after day. So we move toward an anti-democracy group who have an army of misinformation zombies increase votes election after election until they can seize power. Once they do, it's not clear how 'the rest' can get it back. They're willing to steal.

So, we're hoping they don't get too much power - not like 2017 when they had the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

We cannot count on that as of 2025. And it's not clear how to de-radicalize the right. The best attempt I've seen is Bernie talking to them but that can't overcome the constant propaganda. That's why they attack the mainstream media so much - they can't have it de-radicalize their zombies.
 
Someone claiming Bernie has the answers to anything is in no position to call anyone else a brainless fool. He is a fringe politician who does not appeal to the country in any meaningful way. The OP starts with a blind partisan lie and goes down hill from there.
 
Someone claiming Bernie has the answers to anything is in no position to call anyone else a brainless fool. He is a fringe politician who does not appeal to the country in any meaningful way. The OP starts with a blind partisan lie and goes down hill from there.
YOu didn't understand the OP at all.

In fact, you just proved it absolutely correct.
 
"And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right."

That should have said "propaganda" instead of information.
 

So, the country is divided into 'right-wing media zombies', and 'the rest'​

Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'?

I would and i have to agree to an extent . . .

I guess my issue is where are these people, her in the Pittsburgh area and other areas I frequent I simply do not encounter the right-wing media zombies" in any large numbers. They are sprinkled here and there but for the most part the super vast majority of proper I know right and left are normal everyday people and agree on so much.

I don't know anybody that thinks the elections was stolen right left and center in real life, but this past weekend I did see a person I know on Facebook claim it (he was mocked but people right left and center including people who voted for trump). I don't know people in real life that claim things like CRT is evil reverse racism being taught to grade-schoolers, of grade-schoolers are being sexually groomed or say BLM terrorist LMAO

BUT somehow that are topics with enough nutters somewhere in this country to be a thing that the rest of us laugh at. SOmewhere that fantasy is important enough that so many in congress cater to it one way or another. Are there just large parts of the country I've never been to that is just batshit insane?

I so long for and miss the days when a good idea was simply a good idea NO MATTER who thought of it and an issue was a real issue no matter who it affected or who had a solution for it. :(
 
Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'? Tax policy, economic policy, environmental protections, overpopulation challenges, civil rights - the finer points of reasonable options? Don't you get tired of what I call 'fly-swatting'? 'No, Biden is not a pedophile. No, Hunter Biden didn't use his $2 billion from China to steal the 2020 election. No, climate change isn't a George Soros funded hoax. No, transgender people aren't out to annoy people as why they do it.

The Nazi party got more votes election after election usually, until they won. In a country viewed as the most rational, democratic, civilized country, with far fewer propaganda tools.

We're seeing the increasing radicalization of American voters, creating a vise on the suckers who fall for it. It's like an onion with layers of reasons why they wouldn't even think of voting for a Democrat, and it's growing. It's not based on 'issues', it's based on zealotry pumped into them daily.

It's pretty much gotten to where the two groups have little to say to one another. They can talk if it doesn't involve the parties. They can talk about sports, or travel, or food. But not about issues the right and left disagree on - on those, it's only insults mostly, and repeating information (Democrats) and misinformation (Republicans).

Any sense of the country having a viewpoint is mostly lost and all there is to the politics is waiting to see who wins elections - with those fought over with lies also. No problem, both sides think they won.

And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right. You can't talk to someone and overcome what they heard from ten right-wing pundits for hours day after day. So we move toward an anti-democracy group who have an army of misinformation zombies increase votes election after election until they can seize power. Once they do, it's not clear how 'the rest' can get it back. They're willing to steal.

So, we're hoping they don't get too much power - not like 2017 when they had the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

We cannot count on that as of 2025. And it's not clear how to de-radicalize the right. The best attempt I've seen is Bernie talking to them but that can't overcome the constant propaganda. That's why they attack the mainstream media so much - they can't have it de-radicalize their zombies.
They won't listen to Bernie. They think he is a socialist, see no difference between communism, socialism and Democratic socialism. As far as the right is concerned, Bernie is the devil.

The right worships money and wealth. They see Bernie as wanting to be fair to everybody, and they don't think that is possible. They think there has to be winners and losers, and they want to be the winners.
 
Someone claiming Bernie has the answers to anything is in no position to call anyone else a brainless fool. He is a fringe politician who does not appeal to the country in any meaningful way. The OP starts with a blind partisan lie and goes down hill from there.
I like Bernie. He has a very sensible approach. He wants us to be more like Europe. It is a good idea. People live longer in Europe, and they work fewer hours per year than Americans. America is dumb to want to work all the time. Vacations are awesome. Europeans have got it right. Guaranteed paid vacations, and long ones at that. A month and half off every year with full pay. Now that's living. What is the point of life is all you're doing is working it away to make somebody else rich?

The main opposition to Bernie is all based on propaganda.

Bernie took the pox off the word 'socialism' for anybody with an open mind, but it didn't work on the right because they are all closed-minded. They still think socialism is all bad all the time in any form. Wrong!
 
Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'? Tax policy, economic policy, environmental protections, overpopulation challenges, civil rights - the finer points of reasonable options? Don't you get tired of what I call 'fly-swatting'? 'No, Biden is not a pedophile. No, Hunter Biden didn't use his $2 billion from China to steal the 2020 election. No, climate change isn't a George Soros funded hoax. No, transgender people aren't out to annoy people as why they do it.

The Nazi party got more votes election after election usually, until they won. In a country viewed as the most rational, democratic, civilized country, with far fewer propaganda tools.

We're seeing the increasing radicalization of American voters, creating a vise on the suckers who fall for it. It's like an onion with layers of reasons why they wouldn't even think of voting for a Democrat, and it's growing. It's not based on 'issues', it's based on zealotry pumped into them daily.

It's pretty much gotten to where the two groups have little to say to one another. They can talk if it doesn't involve the parties. They can talk about sports, or travel, or food. But not about issues the right and left disagree on - on those, it's only insults mostly, and repeating information (Democrats) and misinformation (Republicans).

Any sense of the country having a viewpoint is mostly lost and all there is to the politics is waiting to see who wins elections - with those fought over with lies also. No problem, both sides think they won.

And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right. You can't talk to someone and overcome what they heard from ten right-wing pundits for hours day after day. So we move toward an anti-democracy group who have an army of misinformation zombies increase votes election after election until they can seize power. Once they do, it's not clear how 'the rest' can get it back. They're willing to steal.

So, we're hoping they don't get too much power - not like 2017 when they had the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

We cannot count on that as of 2025. And it's not clear how to de-radicalize the right. The best attempt I've seen is Bernie talking to them but that can't overcome the constant propaganda. That's why they attack the mainstream media so much - they can't have it de-radicalize their zombies.
It's always fascinating to see people talk of the right-wing media as if one actually existed.

It doesn't, which makes it one of the more clear cases of projection.
 
The crazier the right wing gets, the less inclined to do much of anything the Democrats become. Sure, they will talk and hold hearings and blah blah blah, but when it comes down to it they just aren't fighters and believe not being Republicans should be enough in and of itself. And then we wonder why everyone hates both parties, 100 million people aren't voting, and nothing really every changes for the better.
 
YOu didn't understand the OP at all.

In fact, you just proved it absolutely correct.
You are confusing my belief the OP is complete Bullshit with your inability to understand any differing opinion. Your shortcomings are not anyone else’s problem
 
They won't listen to Bernie. They think he is a socialist, see no difference between communism, socialism and Democratic socialism. As far as the right is concerned, Bernie is the devil.

The right worships money and wealth. They see Bernie as wanting to be fair to everybody, and they don't think that is possible. They think there has to be winners and losers, and they want to be the winners.
Actually, I see it a bit differently. Many don't like Republican 'elites' either, and it's why trump tried to sound like Bernie in a lot of what he says - but it's a con job with trump, but they like the message from Bernie in many cases. It's why he's gotten some great responses talking to far-right audiences.

I don't think a lot of them are about disliking Bernie's message as much as being conditioned to hate Democrats, something Bernie can't undo in a talk. I suspect only a minority of them warm up much to Bernie, but it's a bigger minority than to any other Democrat. I think Democrat might benefit trying to appeal to some of them, but it's hard to overcome propaganda they get hours a day. How do you reach them? Bernie did it in some rallies.
 
It's always fascinating to see people talk of the right-wing media as if one actually existed.

It doesn't, which makes it one of the more clear cases of projection.
Holy shit your trolling really is so pathetic, just parrot this moronic projection
 
The crazier the right wing gets, the less inclined to do much of anything the Democrats become. Sure, they will talk and hold hearings and blah blah blah, but when it comes down to it they just aren't fighters and believe not being Republicans should be enough in and of itself. And then we wonder why everyone hates both parties, 100 million people aren't voting, and nothing really every changes for the better.
The Democrats tried to do a lot, starting with a $10 trillion Build Back Better bill - they had 98% supporting a lot, including BBB and voter rights bills, but didn't have the numbers to pass them. You're blaming the wrong people for their not passing them. If your state elects a bad person should I blame you for not voting enough to get the right one?
 
Someone claiming Bernie has the answers to anything is in no position to call anyone else a brainless fool. He is a fringe politician who does not appeal to the country in any meaningful way. The OP starts with a blind partisan lie and goes down hill from there.

The irony of your post is a truck. One of those big ore-hauling bastards.
 
Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'? Tax policy, economic policy, environmental protections, overpopulation challenges, civil rights - the finer points of reasonable options? Don't you get tired of what I call 'fly-swatting'? 'No, Biden is not a pedophile. No, Hunter Biden didn't use his $2 billion from China to steal the 2020 election. No, climate change isn't a George Soros funded hoax. No, transgender people aren't out to annoy people as why they do it.

The Nazi party got more votes election after election usually, until they won. In a country viewed as the most rational, democratic, civilized country, with far fewer propaganda tools.

We're seeing the increasing radicalization of American voters, creating a vise on the suckers who fall for it. It's like an onion with layers of reasons why they wouldn't even think of voting for a Democrat, and it's growing. It's not based on 'issues', it's based on zealotry pumped into them daily.

It's pretty much gotten to where the two groups have little to say to one another. They can talk if it doesn't involve the parties. They can talk about sports, or travel, or food. But not about issues the right and left disagree on - on those, it's only insults mostly, and repeating information (Democrats) and misinformation (Republicans).

Any sense of the country having a viewpoint is mostly lost and all there is to the politics is waiting to see who wins elections - with those fought over with lies also. No problem, both sides think they won.

And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right. You can't talk to someone and overcome what they heard from ten right-wing pundits for hours day after day. So we move toward an anti-democracy group who have an army of misinformation zombies increase votes election after election until they can seize power. Once they do, it's not clear how 'the rest' can get it back. They're willing to steal.

So, we're hoping they don't get too much power - not like 2017 when they had the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

We cannot count on that as of 2025. And it's not clear how to de-radicalize the right. The best attempt I've seen is Bernie talking to them but that can't overcome the constant propaganda. That's why they attack the mainstream media so much - they can't have it de-radicalize their zombies.
They can't be reasoned with. All we can do is fight like hell and wait for them to die out
 
You are confusing my belief the OP is complete Bullshit with your inability to understand any differing opinion. Your shortcomings are not anyone else’s problem
Nope, that's not what happened there.

Nice try though.
 
Actually, I see it a bit differently. Many don't like Republican 'elites' either, and it's why trump tried to sound like Bernie in a lot of what he says - but it's a con job with trump, but they like the message from Bernie in many cases. It's why he's gotten some great responses talking to far-right audiences.

I don't think a lot of them are about disliking Bernie's message as much as being conditioned to hate Democrats, something Bernie can't undo in a talk. I suspect only a minority of them warm up much to Bernie, but it's a bigger minority than to any other Democrat. I think Democrat might benefit trying to appeal to some of them, but it's hard to overcome propaganda they get hours a day. How do you reach them? Bernie did it in some rallies.
Bernie tapped into the 'occupy' mindset. That resentment of rich Wall Street traders who don't really produce anything but make tons of money just making deals. Trump picked up on that and made some small overtures about having played that game and having the knowledge of how they operate so that he could make them pay. He claimed early on in his campaign that he was so rich that he would self-finance his entire campaign so they wouldn't have to give him any money. Remember that?

Of course, it was BS, but once Trump got his foot in their door he never let up with the BS, piling it on thicker until he had found ways to tap into every kind of hatred and resentment that was out there. It didn't matter that later on he dropped the whole 'self-financed campaign' thing. By then he had his support so locked in on so many levels of hatred and resentment (immigrants, Muslims, the government,) that they didn't care they had been lied to. The hatefest was on and Trump was going to stick it to everybody they resented. Or so they believed.

Drain the swamp, yeah, right. -rolling eyes-

Perhaps the one book Trump could actually authoritatively write would be: 'The Art of The Meaningless Slogan.'
 
"And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right."

That should have said "propaganda" instead of information.
Propaganda is information presented in a way designed to convince people a certain thing is happening.

It's most powerful when it's entirely true, and gets weaker when more lies are required.
 
Wouldn't you, the rest, like to discuss 'issues'? Tax policy, economic policy, environmental protections, overpopulation challenges, civil rights - the finer points of reasonable options? Don't you get tired of what I call 'fly-swatting'? 'No, Biden is not a pedophile. No, Hunter Biden didn't use his $2 billion from China to steal the 2020 election. No, climate change isn't a George Soros funded hoax. No, transgender people aren't out to annoy people as why they do it.

The Nazi party got more votes election after election usually, until they won. In a country viewed as the most rational, democratic, civilized country, with far fewer propaganda tools.

We're seeing the increasing radicalization of American voters, creating a vise on the suckers who fall for it. It's like an onion with layers of reasons why they wouldn't even think of voting for a Democrat, and it's growing. It's not based on 'issues', it's based on zealotry pumped into them daily.

It's pretty much gotten to where the two groups have little to say to one another. They can talk if it doesn't involve the parties. They can talk about sports, or travel, or food. But not about issues the right and left disagree on - on those, it's only insults mostly, and repeating information (Democrats) and misinformation (Republicans).

Any sense of the country having a viewpoint is mostly lost and all there is to the politics is waiting to see who wins elections - with those fought over with lies also. No problem, both sides think they won.

And we have no answer to this. Billions spent on information is our cherished "free speech" right. You can't talk to someone and overcome what they heard from ten right-wing pundits for hours day after day. So we move toward an anti-democracy group who have an army of misinformation zombies increase votes election after election until they can seize power. Once they do, it's not clear how 'the rest' can get it back. They're willing to steal.

So, we're hoping they don't get too much power - not like 2017 when they had the presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

We cannot count on that as of 2025. And it's not clear how to de-radicalize the right. The best attempt I've seen is Bernie talking to them but that can't overcome the constant propaganda. That's why they attack the mainstream media so much - they can't have it de-radicalize their zombies.
Nice left wing zombie disinformation propaganda post.
 
Propaganda is information presented in a way designed to convince people a certain thing is happening.

It's most powerful when it's entirely true, and gets weaker when more lies are required.

Not really. It's pushing a view or assertion, with some twisting of things, promoting one view against others, that might be wholly fabricated, but typically has a nugget of truth, and might be factual but selective.

It usually pushes people based on 'what they want to hear'. It's more effective for a number of reasons, including how much people 'want to hear' the claims, repetition, how it aligns with their views, their trust in the promoter, among other things.

As an example, imagine people to objected to the Supreme Court ordering school busing because they didn't want black kids in schools with their white kids, but it wasn't 'acceptable' to say racist things. How inclined would those people be to agree with propaganda about how the busing was harmful, or put white kids in danger?

Sometimes it can be more effective with more or bigger lies - that's where Hitler's 'big lie' comes from. An important factor though is having propagandists get more trust, like right-wing pundits.
 
Not really. It's pushing a view or assertion, with some twisting of things, promoting one view against others, that might be wholly fabricated, but typically has a nugget of truth, and might be factual but selective.

It usually pushes people based on 'what they want to hear'. It's more effective for a number of reasons, including how much people 'want to hear' the claims, repetition, how it aligns with their views, their trust in the promoter, among other things.

As an example, imagine people to objected to the Supreme Court ordering school busing because they didn't want black kids in schools with their white kids, but it wasn't 'acceptable' to say racist things. How inclined would those people be to agree with propaganda about how the busing was harmful, or put white kids in danger?

Sometimes it can be more effective with more or bigger lies - that's where Hitler's 'big lie' comes from. An important factor though is having propagandists get more trust, like right-wing pundits.
The best propaganda (IMO) is not only entirely true, but communicates an objectively good conclusion along with the true information.

I think we (me definitely) forget sometime that "propaganda", as a method of communication is neutral, and can be used for good or ill depending on the intent of those using it.

Edit:
The dictionary definition:
  1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
  2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause.
  3. Systematic effort to propagate or win support for a theory or method of action.
I think that technically you could call various textbooks used in schools "propaganda", even if they're about a well-known and understood scientifically gathered set up facts, such as chemistry or whatnot.
 
I think we (me definitely) forget sometime that "propaganda", as a method of communication is neutral, and can be used for good or ill depending on the intent of those using it.

I agree that propaganda can be used for 'good' or 'bad' causes. Though of course that can be subjective. For example, tobacco companies launch propaganda to promote opposition to smoking restrictions, the government might counter with propaganda to encourage support for them.

There's another wrinkle to the topic. It's not always that simple.

For example, with WWII, the US engaged in major propaganda building support for the war with a country that had been strongly opposed to it. Many would say that is 'good' propaganda.

But did it also have an effect after the war, of making the country more susceptible to the Republicans' red scare tactics and the cold war, to a mentality of American dominance that had harmful effects, displacing more democratic views on foreign policy?

There can even be 'unintended propaganda', an example being the effect of JFK 'winning' the Cuban Missile Crisis, hiding issues and agreements involved, that led the US to adopt a view that always refusing to negotiate to 'stand strong' against adversaries was the correct approach, affecting things like the politics on the Vietnam war, as discussed in the good book, "When Presidents Lie".
 
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