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So NIST lied about the failure mechanism of WTC 7 in the 911 Official Report?

KokomoJojo

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It would seem the official "story" and the government and its agencies are once again subject collateral attack pending suits for fraud in their reports.

This appears to be raising the 911 truther movement to a whole new level of notoriety and solidifying their credibility.


As Cole has written in his article, "NIST's failure to show these stiffeners or take them into account in its analysis is yet another area where the omissions and incorrect statements are so egregious, anyone who understands these issues must by now begin to question NIST's motives."


Feeling strongly that the stiffeners revelation is the strongest evidence yet of fraudulent omissions by NIST, Szamboti, Cole, and other professionals at AE911Truth began asking what could be done from a legal perspective. Szamboti reached out to his contacts in the 9/11 Truth community, and Bill Pepper stepped forward. Eventually, a strategy was developed with the ultimate goal of forcing a whole new and independent examination into the collapse of Building 7 by either NIST itself or, better yet, an independent group.


As Pepper put it in the letter that he sent to the Inspector General on December 12, 2013, "Avoidance through stonewalling and prolonged silence will no longer suffice. This will not go away...Silence from your office or a rejection of this reasonable request may prompt my clients to seek legal recourse and to raise this issue with their colleagues in Europe where a number of government officials and professionals have long been critical of the official U.S. Government's position and explanation of the destruction of the WTC on 9/11."

Included in Bill Pepper’s letter to the Inspector General was the DVD by AE911Truth: “9/11: Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out.


It should be noted that the OIG pledges publically, “to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the Department of Commerce's programs and operations. The OIG also endeavors to detect and deter waste, fraud, and abuse. OIG monitors and tracks the use of taxpayer dollars through audits, inspections, evaluations, and investigations. The Inspector General keeps the Secretary of Commerce and Congress fully and currently informed about problems and deficiencies relating to Commerce's activities and the need for corrective action.


In consideration, especially, of the stiffeners issue, our desired outcome is that the OIG will consider Pepper’s letter, evaluate the analysis provided in the letter, detect that NIST’s report on the unprecedented collapse of Building 7 is fundamentally flawed, if not fraudulent, and declare that the corrective action needed is a true and honest investigation into the free-fall collapse of Building 7 based on all the evidence, including the missing stiffeners and also the evidence for explosive demolition. Will the OIG take its mandate seriously? Is such a scenario feasible, or even possible? With your participation in our upcoming campaign, we think that it is. Stay tuned for the Action Alerts.


As legal and other strategies are being weighed, the issue has picked up steam
William Pepper, Attorney at Law, Pursuing NIST via OIG Re: Fraudulent WTC 7 Report
The OIG wants to get out of it unscathed with an apology, when crimes appear to have been committed.

would a traffic cop let any of us get out of a speeding violation with an apology?

The agencies involved in public affairs have both trust and fiduciary obligations to the public they are presumably intended to serve.

What else did nist lie about?
 

Sunzi

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Not one 911 truth follower has read, or will comprehend NIST. And the real problem, there are no sane engineers who think WTC7 was CD.

What has 911 truth not lied about.

Why do 911 truth followers copy and paste woo as directed by their 911 truth handlers.
 

KokomoJojo

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Not one 911 truth follower has read, or will comprehend NIST. And the real problem, there are no sane engineers who think WTC7 was CD.

What has 911 truth not lied about.

Why do 911 truth followers copy and paste woo as directed by their 911 truth handlers.
How is this not clear?


As Cole has written in his article, "NIST's failure to show these stiffeners or take them into account in its analysis is yet another area where the omissions and incorrect statements are so egregious, anyone who understands these issues must by now begin to question NIST's motives."


Feeling strongly that the stiffeners revelation is the strongest evidence yet of fraudulent omissions by NIST, Szamboti, Cole, and other professionals at AE911Truth began asking what could be done from a legal perspective. Szamboti reached out to his contacts in the 9/11 Truth community, and Bill Pepper stepped forward. Eventually, a strategy was developed with the ultimate goal of forcing a whole new and independent examination into the collapse of Building 7 by either NIST itself or, better yet, an independent group.
 

Mark F

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Most of Mr. Pepper's letter is padding, fluff and sky-high hyperbole of little or no consequence. The only technical claim contained within the letter are claims of omitted details (web/flange stiffeners) which are technically of little to no consequence and Mr. Pepper has not demonstrated that there would be any significant effect in including them.

Anyone wishing to push claims of CD at 7 WTC will be no closer in doing so after reading that letter than they were before.
 

KokomoJojo

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Most of Mr. Pepper's letter is padding, fluff and sky-high hyperbole of little or no consequence. The only technical claim contained within the letter are claims of omitted details (web/flange stiffeners) which are technically of little to no consequence and Mr. Pepper has not demonstrated that there would be any significant effect in including them.

Anyone wishing to push claims of CD at 7 WTC will be no closer in doing so after reading that letter than they were before.
So you feel the difference between collapse versus no collapse as little to no consequence.
 

Thoreau72

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The fact that Bement, head of NIST, was appointed by Dubya in August 2001, and that Bement's boss Mr. Evans, and Dubya were "like brothers" according to Karen Hughes, illustrates just how corrupt and political the NIST process was.

Only a fool believes that the Frat Boy atmosphere in Washington in general and NIST in particular would lead to an honest and scientific investigation.

NIST report was a joke.
 

KokomoJojo

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The fact that Bement, head of NIST, was appointed by Dubya in August 2001, and that Bement's boss Mr. Evans, and Dubya were "like brothers" according to Karen Hughes, illustrates just how corrupt and political the NIST process was.

Only a fool believes that the Frat Boy atmosphere in Washington in general and NIST in particular would lead to an honest and scientific investigation.

NIST report was a joke.
agreed and there are stacks of cases out there that show it is that way top to bottom in government. People think we live in a democracy, in reality its a Mobocracy! Everything is controlled just out of reach from the public who are subject to their actions.
 

jaydeehess

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The fact that Bement, head of NIST, was appointed by Dubya in August 2001, and that Bement's boss Mr. Evans, and Dubya were "like brothers" according to Karen Hughes, illustrates just how corrupt and political the NIST process was.

Only a fool believes that the Frat Boy atmosphere in Washington in general and NIST in particular would lead to an honest and scientific investigation.

NIST report was a joke.
I can't imagine why this was not included in Pepper's letter.
 

jaydeehess

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The underlying issue stems from the official NIST Report (NIST NCSTAR 1-9-Nov. 2008) which basically contends that for the first time in history, the symmetrical, complete collapse of a large, fire protected, 47 story steel framed building was said to be fire induced.
If this is to be in contention then the issue of what else could have caused the building to collapse is involved. If its not at issue then nothing AE911T says could "devastate the current NIST conclusions", since the overarching conclusion was that the quite obvious fires were what took down the building. NIST then came up with what they termed a most probable theory that included walk of of a girder and floor failures.

In addition, NIST's fea runs show that column 79 failure was what allowed the EPH to fall inwards.

That is two tenets backed by research that are not affected at all by the presence or not of web stiffeners or the size of the flange seat.

Yet the letter then states:
This group of architects and engineers, unanimously believe that the NIST
Report’s conclusion of collapse due to fire could not have been justified if the
stiffeners and the lateral support beams were not omitted
But this is incorrect. What they mean is that in their opinion the walk off of the girder could not have taken place. AE911T seems to wish that this is an item that destroys the idea that the fires, a proximate cause that is well known to have been in play, caused the initiation of the building collapse sequence/progression. In short though it isn't! Its possibly an item that precludes girder walk off. It may however simply be one that indicates that a more detailed analysis is required, one that includes heating of concrete, heating of the girder, of the web & flange, of heating of the flange seat and column 79 itself. Perhaps even the heat input from the short lived fire on the 13th floor should be included (it wasn't in the original report). Perhaps even, as suggested by the CTBUH, a cooling/contraction phase failure needs analysis.

Perhaps even failure of TT1 prior to col 79 failure should be reinvestigated.

However, UNLESS anyone can come up with compelling evidence of the use of therm?te or explosives, that issue is dead, and fire damage is still THE single most compelling cause of collapse initiation.
 

KokomoJojo

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If this is to be in contention then the issue of what else could have caused the building to collapse is involved.
Nist claimed fire
Nist claimed fire caused expansion, beam walked
Nist claimed column 79 failed due to that expansion

Nist made false claims about the stiffners and walk off plate.

That is all that need be proven, this crap about proving thermite is just another debunker red herring dead end circular reasoning argument.

We can draw the following conclusions from this.

Nist chose the "best", possibly the "only" way they could bluff a natural collapse.
All other choices were not plausible.

Proven to fraud, it did not happen the way nist claims the only alternative is not natural. No other choices unless you want to go with "super natural!"

Lets see that leaves us with.....

BOOM!

However if you believe that it could have walked off anyway I would love to hear the stories you guys come up with! LOL

 
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CATiwampus

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There are specific bits of accountability that have been lacking in the U.S.
system of "GOV" for many years. Just as an example, I cite the fact that
Dr. Rice in testimony before the 9/11 commission, stated something to the
effect that NOBODY could have imagined hijacked airliners being used as weapons.
However, there are documented Pentagon exercises that include exactly that scenario.
Also in the case of the clean-up post collapse of WTC7, there was the opportunity
to sample the dust and look for explosive residue, however this was not done and
when questioned about it, our glorious public servant(s) stated that they assumed
no explosives would be found so why waste the time & money on tests that would
come up negative anyhow ...... Question, WHY are these clowns still on the public payroll?
Why has nobody been so much as reprimanded for what constitutes a multitude of screw-ups!
 

Mark F

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There are specific bits of accountability that have been lacking in the U.S.
system of "GOV" for many years. Just as an example, I cite the fact that
Dr. Rice in testimony before the 9/11 commission, stated something to the
effect that NOBODY could have imagined hijacked airliners being used as weapons.
However, there are documented Pentagon exercises that include exactly that scenario.
Also in the case of the clean-up post collapse of WTC7, there was the opportunity
to sample the dust and look for explosive residue, however this was not done and
when questioned about it, our glorious public servant(s) stated that they assumed
no explosives would be found so why waste the time & money on tests that would
come up negative anyhow ...... Question, WHY are these clowns still on the public payroll?
Why has nobody been so much as reprimanded for what constitutes a multitude of screw-ups!
Tell you what, I would like you to turn the volume up and LISTEN to this collapse, then tell me when the explosiveS went off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBQ3AkRetI

Now watch this (skip ahead to about 8:07 to save time) and again with the volume at 11 tell us when you heard the explosives go off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHA1G_xTNMQ

What's different?
 

KokomoJojo

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Tell you what, I would like you to turn the volume up and LISTEN to this collapse, then tell me when the explosiveS went off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBQ3AkRetI

Now watch this (skip ahead to about 8:07 to save time) and again with the volume at 11 tell us when you heard the explosives go off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHA1G_xTNMQ

What's different?
the second clip edited the demolition initiation completely out, penthouse there, next frame penthouse gone!

Great demonstration.
 

mike2810

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Who brought up the use of nanothermite? The govt. No, A major scientific publication, No, wait. It was Jones, Harriet, et.al.


What movement do they associate with? The govt? No. A major scientific publication No. wait, they are involved in the CT 911 movement.

Now we know from another poster, they must be govt. disinfo agents. Yea.:mrgreen:
 

KokomoJojo

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KokomoJojo

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Who brought up the use of nanothermite? The govt. No, A major scientific publication, No, wait. It was Jones, Harriet, et.al.


What movement do they associate with? The govt? No. A major scientific publication No. wait, they are involved in the CT 911 movement.

Now we know from another poster, they must be govt. disinfo agents. Yea.:mrgreen:
yeh and they force the NIST physics and engineering gods to change their final report LOL

You dont have any laughing rights.
 

Thoreau72

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I can't imagine why this was not included in Pepper's letter.
Yes, I know. You cannot imagine much at all. You think as you are told to think, you accept what you are told to accept, and more than anything, you do not ask questions when facts don't support the official line.

Fortunately, there are curious people in the world who DO ask questions. Some go so far as to research the relationships between certain elected and appointed officials.

I understand YOU do not, but some people do. The curious amongst us. :peace
 

Mark F

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Yes, I know. You cannot imagine much at all. You think as you are told to think, you accept what you are told to accept, and more than anything, you do not ask questions when facts don't support the official line.

Fortunately, there are curious people in the world who DO ask questions. Some go so far as to research the relationships between certain elected and appointed officials.

I understand YOU do not, but some people do. The curious amongst us. :peace
Ah yes, we all know you are holier than thou - you don't need to constantly re-affirm it.
 

Thoreau72

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Who brought up the use of nanothermite? The govt. No, A major scientific publication, No, wait. It was Jones, Harriet, et.al.


What movement do they associate with? The govt? No. A major scientific publication No. wait, they are involved in the CT 911 movement.

Now we know from another poster, they must be govt. disinfo agents. Yea.:mrgreen:
Yeah Mike, isn't it funny ha-ha how a man with a doctorate in nuclear issues would steer the analysis away from nuclear and towards energetic compounds like thermite?

Not a peep out of Mr. Jones on anything nuclear, even though USGS found elevated levels of thermite.
 

Mark F

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Yes but none of the "sounds of explosions" reported by witnesses coincide with the collapse of 7 WTC, therefore they can not be responsible for initiating its destruction.

Timing is everything.

Also as pointed out many times there are many prosaic explanations for the sound of explosions in a massive catastrophic event such as the 9/11 attacks. Explosions do not mean bombs. You need to do much, much better than vague anecdotal reports hours removed from the actual event.
 

mike2810

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Yeah Mike, isn't it funny ha-ha how a man with a doctorate in nuclear issues would steer the analysis away from nuclear and towards energetic compounds like thermite?

Not a peep out of Mr. Jones on anything nuclear, even though USGS found elevated levels of thermite.
So are Jones, et.al disinfo agents?
How about Prager?
Koko, seems to think these alternative explanations are coming from the govt. as disinfo.

What is interesting is someone like Prager with no nuclear background comes up with his alternative.
Guess the majority of nuclear scientists are in on the cover up? :mrgreen: What is telling is where the story is still being covered.
 
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CATiwampus

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Yes but none of the "sounds of explosions" reported by witnesses coincide with the collapse of 7 WTC, therefore they can not be responsible for initiating its destruction.

Timing is everything.

Also as pointed out many times there are many prosaic explanations for the sound of explosions in a massive catastrophic event such as the 9/11 attacks. Explosions do not mean bombs. You need to do much, much better than vague anecdotal reports hours removed from the actual event.
The explosions precede the "collapse" and are consistent with CD.
 
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