So if conservatives hate Obamacare so bad then what is your idea's?

[Unitedwestand13]

I disagree with the premise outright. You make it sound like we only have two options,the Republican version of govt.controlled healthcare or the Dems.

well we can't exactly go back to the system we had before the affordable care act was passed.

and no republican has laid out exactly what they want to replace obamacare with.

 

[shagg]

According to nancy pelosi, "we need to pass it to see what is in it."

Do you understand the problem with trying to implement a healthcare system in America now? It was treated like an emergency. Like this country was dying from an epidemic. Millions dead every 3 seconds. Then we got a busted "obamacare" bill that everyone is now looking at like...uh oops.

You want to implement a working system? Shut down the media. Closed door research on health care, and develop a secret agenda to create the system long before the information is ever released. Then figure out a way to prevent people from abusing the system. Then also figure out how to fund it. Like it or not...doctors don't work for free. Manufacture of medication and machines cost money. We barely pay nurses. It just doesn't make sense. People want "free" health care. They don't realize that health care costs money and it will cost someone.

I'm not going to even try to defend Pelosi, but a lack of info has been a problem from the get go. Point against the dems for not making sure the details were more commonly known. However, in their defense, the repubs one-upped them by playing on that lack of knowledge and scaring the country into hating obamacare with lies and deliberate misrepresentation of facts and statistics. How many top 12 obamacare lies/whats really in obamacare/obamacare decoded websites can you think of off the top of your head? they're everywhere, and still no one really knows whats in the bill, just that they hate it.
The theory that if everyone is covered, everything will be cheaper seems pretty logical to me. Hospitals charge so much because so many people can't pay, but they still have to buy and maintain expensive equipment and pay their workers. so when you go to the ER for a broken ankle, your insurance company pays for 1-2 broken ankles in addition to yours. if everyone can pay, then theres no need for this, or the effect is greatly reduced anyway. They even put a clause saying how much of a persons bill has to be spent on care, limiting the % that can be profit, so when cost goes down they can't just do nothing and profit obscenely. This will help our nation tremendously if it works since we spend so much on subsidized healthcare for various groups. Will it actualy work? I don't know, but what we have now is unsustainable, and I didn't see anything else on the table at the time. More importantly we'll no longer be entrenched in a system thats costly, unsustainable, inefficient, and and percieved as being some juggernaut that no one can budge.

If it was rushed, it was probably because the dems only had a certain window in which they had the numbers to get it through. I'm not going to defend against that, and its likely part of if not most of the reason there was such a lack of info.

I kind of like your idea, keep the media out of it, research, planning, a ****ing decent PR campaign strategy would be a nice change to help people understand it better. You could even announce it, just no details until everything is finalized and the bill is drafted. no rushing, take your time and do it right. this would require more .... bipartisan support though, and theres a lot of money invested into exploiting the current system.

 

[VanceMack]

It doesn't HAVE to be Obamacare. If states can reform their own healthcare laws and achieve a fair workable system then I'm all for it. If it is in fact happening, its because of Obamacare. Obamacare scared the **** out of anyone even remotely invested in the current healthcare system, forced everyone to take a closer look at it than they were comfortable with, and realize something is wrong. I don't care if Obamacare gets repealed or not, as long as we end up with something relatively fair and sustainable. something that doesn't involve the few who can pay their bills paying 3x what they should because 2/3 of care given ends up being written off. Try working towards an optimal result instead of blindly trying to not-lose, often times with total misrepresentation of the facts.

States were making health care options available long before Obama was elected the first time. The fed has demonstrated quite clearly how poorly they run assistance agencies and how inefficiently they run those systems.

 

[tech30528]

The argument is inherently flawed. To say that not having a comprehensive plan already drafted means we should go with a horribly destructive power grab that, by the admission of those who pushed it, will not solve the problem is at the very least foolish and lazy. If giving up your personal liberty seems like a good idea to you I recommend you find a nice quiet corner to go get stoned and play video games in while the adults look for meaningful solutions.

The biggest problem I see is that many expect a bumper sticker plan to instantly cure all that ails us. The problem is complex and there are enough people involved to insure that there will be a fair number of greedy assholes who would take advantage of the rest. I believe doctors, who have devoted extraordinary amounts of time and effort to learn their craft, should be well compensated. I believe that the market is inflated by insurance company profits (their very existence drives up health care costs as providers have to staff people who do nothing but interface the medical and insurance industries), I also believe that research and development of new technologies is to expensive, but that there are many reasons such as greed and government intervention. But I also believe that a big part of the problem is a debt culture and individual selfishness. There are many problems that combine in to what has become a huge problem, but the public's willingness to throw up it's collective hands and turn it over to a government that has time and time again proven itself to be greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept is a huge mistake. The first step to fixing the majority of our societal problems is for people to take personal responsibility and to reject the tenets that have led us to where we are.

 

[iguanaman]

The argument is inherently flawed. To say that not having a comprehensive plan already drafted means we should go with a horribly destructive power grab that, by the admission of those who pushed it, will not solve the problem is at the very least foolish and lazy. If giving up your personal liberty seems like a good idea to you I recommend you find a nice quiet corner to go get stoned and play video games in while the adults look for meaningful solutions.

The biggest problem I see is that many expect a bumper sticker plan to instantly cure all that ails us. The problem is complex and there are enough people involved to insure that there will be a fair number of greedy assholes who would take advantage of the rest. I believe doctors, who have devoted extraordinary amounts of time and effort to learn their craft, should be well compensated. I believe that the market is inflated by insurance company profits (their very existence drives up health care costs as providers have to staff people who do nothing but interface the medical and insurance industries), I also believe that research and development of new technologies is to expensive, but that there are many reasons such as greed and government intervention. But I also believe that a big part of the problem is a debt culture and individual selfishness. There are many problems that combine in to what has become a huge problem, but the public's willingness to throw up it's collective hands and turn it over to a government that has time and time again proven itself to be greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept is a huge mistake. The first step to fixing the majority of our societal problems is for people to take personal responsibility and to reject the tenets that have led us to where we are.

Time and time again I hear the drivel about Govt. being greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept. Do you feel that way about our military too? The US military is 100% Govt. funded and run. How about the fact that Medicare is far more efficient than private insurers. You need to stop with the talking points and start with something that makes sense.

Medicare Has Controlled Costs Better Than Private Insurance
.
•According to CMS, for common benefits, Medicare spending rose by an average of 4.3 percent each year between 1997 and 2009, while private insurance premiums grew at a rate of 6.5 percent per year. (See Table 13)
•According to a calculation by the National Academy for Social Insurance, if spending on Medicare rose at the same rate as private insurance premiums during that period, Medicare would have cost an additional $114 billion (or 31.7 percent).
•The CBO explicitly stated that its data on relative cost growth should not be used to make the argument that Goodman and Saving make, writing that the relatively low growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid “should not be interpreted as meaning that Medicare or Medicaid is less able to control spending than private insurers.” Goodman and Saving mistakenly suggest that the growth rate of private insurance is the same as the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid; however, as CBO points out, the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid includes not just spending by private insurers, but also government programs and out-of-pocket costs paid by the uninsured.
•The CBO has predicted that the rising cost of private insurance will continue to outstrip Medicare for the next 30 years. The private insurance equivalent of Medicare would cost almost 40 percent more in 2022 for a typical 65-year old.

Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
.
•According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
•Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans’ marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare’s overhead is dramatically lower.
•Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

So-called “competition” in the private health care market has driven costs up.

Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance – Health Affairs Blog

 

[tech30528]

Time and time again I hear the drivel about Govt. being greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept. Do you feel that way about our military too? The US military is 100% Govt. funded and run. How about the fact that Medicare is far more efficient than private insurers. You need to stop with the talking points and start with something that makes sense.

url=http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/]Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance – Health Affairs Blog[/url]

I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Government has it's uses, universal health care is not one of them. As for the military, when they start acting outside the purview of the federal government you'll let me know. Personally I have to agree with a libertarian view on this, we shouldn't be out sticking our military where it doesn't belong.

 

[iguanaman]

I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Government has it's uses, universal health care is not one of them. As for the military, when they start acting outside the purview of the federal government you'll let me know. Personally I have to agree with a libertarian view on this, we shouldn't be out sticking our military where it doesn't belong.

So you were against the Iraq war from the start? I seriously doubt it.

 

[tech30528]

So you were against the Iraq war from the start? I seriously doubt it.

Not everybody has a solid opinion on every subject. My area or expertise is auto repair, not foreign policy. I won't try to pin you in to a corner on what would be the best course of action for a slipping transmission if you will accept the fact that the world is not black and white, Mkay?

 

[Hard Truth]

Four pages in and only one conservative idea: "let the states do i." and one half idea: "Shut down the media, do research and make a secret plan."

No one is actually defending the status quo, but they don't seem to have a clue as to what could be better.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Government has no business regulating healthcare? We should all be at the mercy of Big Pharm and insurance companies then? Its one thing to say the current attempt has its flaws, but your suggesting they shouldn't even try. This directly affects every single american in a very serious way. To say that we should turn our backs and let the free market do what it will with a product that everyone needs and is unwilling to go without (except the christian scientists maybe) is on par with "Let them eat cake"

If "Big Pharm" and insurance companies weren't absolutely SHACKLED by Mother Government, then laws of competition would drive costs down. For example, this whole law about insurance coverages not allowed to cross state lines? Bullchips. The ONLY reason that exists is to drive costs UP. Remove this law, and now companies from coast-to-coast have to compete. That drives costs down, because it's either that, or lose members. Simple as that.

It sounds like you just hate the government. Do you feel Capitalism will work best for everyone (or even just the majority) when it runs unrestricted?

Capitalism works without overwhelming intrusion of the government. For the hippies, pretend Capitalism is the ecosystem, and government intrusion is "humans." The hippies blame humans for global warming, because they're throwing things out of balance. THAT'S the Government...throwing things out of balance. As I ask any government lover...name me one thing the government does effectively AND efficiently. If you can find one, ask yourself if a private company can do it more efficiently. The answer is ALWAYS "yes." Face it...Government sucks. It's necessary to keep the country safe, but it's the kiss of death for just about everything else.

well we can't exactly go back to the system we had before the affordable care act was passed.

Why not? De-fund that abortion of a law, and go back to the drawing board.


I think Mother Government needs to be in the business of "health." Stop meddling in business. Instead, incentivize people for their health. During the Bush era, one thing his administration did 100% correct was rolling out the Health Savings Account program. I enrolled in this, and it's WONDERFUL. I'm basically a healthy person. I see a doctor once every 3-4 years. Every year, my employer drops $750 into my HSA. It's MY account. I don't have Mother Government looking at it. I use it as I see fit. The less I need in a year, it rolls over to the next. Now, I'm up to $6k in the account. When I finally DO need health care, I've got $6k over whatever my insurance covers. ...that's MY insurance. Not Government Insurance.

 

[wbcoleman]

We are all in agreement. Our healthcare system is broken. 40 million Americans without health insurance and prices going trhu the roof. If not the AFA then what do you right wingers want? The status quo? That does not work. Greed has corrupted our health care system. Tort reform would be just a drop in the bucket and so would inerstate insurance. You have to do better that that my conservative friends. Why is it American conservatives are the only conservatives in the world who are against a state ran health care system? British,German and French conservatives do not seem to have a problem with it. Neither do Canadian conservitives. Are our conservatives more stupid than the rest?

I want repeal of Obamacare. Then Congress can discuss real reform.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

But that isn't going to happen, so just the status quo then?

Part of the problem with the far wrong is that they think it is worthwhile to “do something” about a problem, even if what is done can only make things worse rather than better. Claimed intent counts for more than results. The ObamaCare scam is a perfect example of this. We had a health care system that, while it admittedly had some issues that needed correction, was mostly working, most of the time,for most people. Obama and his Democrat minions FUBARed it. They didn't fix anything; they only made things much, much, much worse, and they wants us to give them credit for “doing something” about the problem.

Those of us on the right believe that if the alternative is to “do something” that only makes things worse, then it is better to do nothing at all. This isn't to say that doing nothing at all is necessarily the appropriate response to any problem, but it is certainly better than the far wrong “solution” that consists of “doing something” that only makes things worse. We do not give credit to anyone for “doing something” about a problem, unless what is done produces a positive result.

 

[James D Hill]

Our conservatives recognize the implications of allowing government to stick its filthy nose too far into areas where it has no business doing so.

The European systems that you cite are part of the defective, self-destructive culture which our ancestors wisely rejected, and against which they rebelled, to found this country. They were wrong more than two centuries ago, and they are just as wrong today.

Only a drug-crippled fool thinks that a successful nation should look to failures for guidance and example. If we, as a nation, wanted to be a European-style failure, we would have simply kissed George III's ass, and let him and his successors continue to rule us, as the Canadians did.

Then what is your idea to fix skyrocketing prices. The status quo? Get off your outdated,cold war John Birch crap. We have to pay one way or another. Do you think it is free to have all those people going to the emergency room? Conservatives have no ideas just obstruction. The cold war is over and we have to get the capitalist pigs out of health care.

 

[James D Hill]

I want repeal of Obamacare. Then Congress can discuss real reform.

Why don't we milk the good out of it like banning pre existing condition discrimination or allowing people to stay on their parents health care intil 26. Obama care has many good ideas do you want to flush them all? That is not going to happen.

 

[James D Hill]

If "Big Pharm" and insurance companies weren't absolutely SHACKLED by Mother Government, then laws of competition would drive costs down. For example, this whole law about insurance coverages not allowed to cross state lines? Bullchips. The ONLY reason that exists is to drive costs UP. Remove this law, and now companies from coast-to-coast have to compete. That drives costs down, because it's either that, or lose members. Simple as that.


Capitalism works without overwhelming intrusion of the government. For the hippies, pretend Capitalism is the ecosystem, and government intrusion is "humans." The hippies blame humans for global warming, because they're throwing things out of balance. THAT'S the Government...throwing things out of balance. As I ask any government lover...name me one thing the government does effectively AND efficiently. If you can find one, ask yourself if a private company can do it more efficiently. The answer is ALWAYS "yes." Face it...Government sucks. It's necessary to keep the country safe, but it's the kiss of death for just about everything else.


Why not? De-fund that abortion of a law, and go back to the drawing board.


I think Mother Government needs to be in the business of "health." Stop meddling in business. Instead, incentivize people for their health. During the Bush era, one thing his administration did 100% correct was rolling out the Health Savings Account program. I enrolled in this, and it's WONDERFUL. I'm basically a healthy person. I see a doctor once every 3-4 years. Every year, my employer drops $750 into my HSA. It's MY account. I don't have Mother Government looking at it. I use it as I see fit. The less I need in a year, it rolls over to the next. Now, I'm up to $6k in the account. When I finally DO need health care, I've got $6k over whatever my insurance covers. ...that's MY insurance. Not Government Insurance.

I have news for you. Capitalism does not work in health care. Have you seen the prices rise over the last 30 years? Our health is far to important to leave in the hands of those who only care about profit.

 

[James D Hill]

Badly. The educational system appears to be broken as well.

Only broken if you are a male. They seem to not know how to teach young men anymore.

 

[James D Hill]

Lack of greed is the bigger issue

The problems with out of control prices is that one component of greed is not part of the system. Those of us consuming the services don’t price shop as we do in other areas of society.

The greed that makes us find a tv $100 cheaper is not pervasive in health care. When people don’t price shop, the incentive to keep costs down is lessened. So one problem is we are not greedy enough when it comes to acquiring health care services.

The other problem is more a mindset. Life can be a struggle. Life is not going to be fair. Society used to understand that. Progressives simply refuse to accept it. Some people will have better lives. Some people will be healthier. The progressive mindset of stealing from Peter to pay Paul in order to create a utopia has failed miserably. Yet rather than admit the failure, they double down. Now we don’t simply steal from the Peter, we steal from Peters unborn grandchildren.

The problem is there is no longer a family doctor who is a jack of all trades who can put a cast on a broken leg or deliver a baby. All they do is refer you to a scecialist so you have to go to more office visits,get redundant procedures and drive the cost thru the roof.

 

[iguanaman]

The healthcare system is broken do to regulations about insurance put on medical practices. That is why rates are so high, becuase of costs to doctors to keep enough insurance to cover mal-practice and other medical mishaps. That is what needs to be reformed.

So Doctors never make mistakes? That's ridiculous, all humans are fallible.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

So Doctors never make mistakes? That's ridiculous, all humans are fallible.

Where did I say that?

 

[James D Hill]

Where did I say that?

I am not saying you did but conservatives hate trial lawers and want to drastically change malpractice rewards. If you agree with that then you don't have to say it.

 

[James D Hill]

I want repeal of Obamacare. Then Congress can discuss real reform.

Not with the conservatives being in bed with the powerful doctor and Pharm lobby. The will defend the staus quo every time. Some dem's are guilty of that also.

 

[James D Hill]

Part of the problem with the far wrong is that they think it is worthwhile to “do something” about a problem, even if what is done can only make things worse rather than better. Claimed intent counts for more than results. The ObamaCare scam is a perfect example of this. We had a health care system that, while it admittedly had some issues that needed correction, was mostly working, most of the time,for most people. Obama and his Democrat minions FUBARed it. They didn't fix anything; they only made things much, much, much worse, and they wants us to give them credit for “doing something” about the problem.

Those of us on the right believe that if the alternative is to “do something” that only makes things worse, then it is better to do nothing at all. This isn't to say that doing nothing at all is necessarily the appropriate response to any problem, but it is certainly better than the far wrong “solution” that consists of “doing something” that only makes things worse. We do not give credit to anyone for “doing something” about a problem, unless what is done produces a positive result.

Then what do we do about the price's going up the way they have? Something has to give. Either control prices or socialized medicene.

 

[James D Hill]

Time and time again I hear the drivel about Govt. being greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept. Do you feel that way about our military too? The US military is 100% Govt. funded and run. How about the fact that Medicare is far more efficient than private insurers. You need to stop with the talking points and start with something that makes sense.


Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance – Health Affairs Blog

How about that moron of a govenor you guys have down there? What a piece of ****. You are right of cource. We have let the greedy take over a basic human need and until we kick out the capitalist pigs or control prices it is only going to get worse.

 

[James D Hill]

The argument is inherently flawed. To say that not having a comprehensive plan already drafted means we should go with a horribly destructive power grab that, by the admission of those who pushed it, will not solve the problem is at the very least foolish and lazy. If giving up your personal liberty seems like a good idea to you I recommend you find a nice quiet corner to go get stoned and play video games in while the adults look for meaningful solutions.

The biggest problem I see is that many expect a bumper sticker plan to instantly cure all that ails us. The problem is complex and there are enough people involved to insure that there will be a fair number of greedy assholes who would take advantage of the rest. I believe doctors, who have devoted extraordinary amounts of time and effort to learn their craft, should be well compensated. I believe that the market is inflated by insurance company profits (their very existence drives up health care costs as providers have to staff people who do nothing but interface the medical and insurance industries), I also believe that research and development of new technologies is to expensive, but that there are many reasons such as greed and government intervention. But I also believe that a big part of the problem is a debt culture and individual selfishness. There are many problems that combine in to what has become a huge problem, but the public's willingness to throw up it's collective hands and turn it over to a government that has time and time again proven itself to be greedy, power hungry, inefficient and inept is a huge mistake. The first step to fixing the majority of our societal problems is for people to take personal responsibility and to reject the tenets that have led us to where we are.

As you conservatives love to say we are the greatest nation on Earth so why do we rank behind so many other countries in so many important issues. 40 million uninsured Americans is not right and the thing of it is we pay for their health care anyway when they fill our emergency rooms. I have heard no good conservative ideas on this issue other that defending the staus quo.

 

[ARealConservative]

The problem is there is no longer a family doctor who is a jack of all trades who can put a cast on a broken leg or deliver a baby. All they do is refer you to a scecialist so you have to go to more office visits,get redundant procedures and drive the cost thru the roof.

this is true, but the conditions you see were caused by progressive solutions