So I Told My Friend He's a Drunk Today

[Trippy Trekker]

Three Al-Anon Daily Readers... and the Al-Anon Service Manual -

 

[markjs]

I've known Cal for well over 20 years. We became friends at work, he went on to a different company but we remained friends. He used to coach our company softball team. He's got an undergrad, an MBA, and 2 PHD's. He's got a lot of knowledge but not as much common sense as I wish he could have. Anyway, he's my friend, and I love him.

Cal got divorced, roughly the same time as I did, 2 years ago. As friends, we stopped hanging out for awhile because his wife (now his ex) didn't like hanging around our kids. When Cal got divorced we started hanging out again. Cal is still not over his divorce. His ex-wife is a malignant narcissist. She had and has zero empathy for Cal. She announced she was dumping him at work, in the lobby of their office building, the day before Cal was going to head on vacation. He fainted. She couldn't wait to do it, in private, after Cal returned. Suffice to say, Cal had a pretty ****ing ****ty time on that vacation. Anyway, that's the kind of horrible person she is.

Anyway, Cal's still not over her, although me, his family and all his other friends tell him he does not want her back. He agrees and says, "keep telling me that". Well, ok. But he's got to realize it himself.

So, mourning the end of his marriage 2 years ago Cal started self-medicating with booze. Hard alcohol. Every time I've seen him the past 2 years he's had some kind of drink goin'.

He hosted me and my brother, and his former nephew Christmas for dinner. Cal passed out in his recliner right after dinner. We all ended up cleaning up, putting the food away, then we just left and locked him in. This is when I realized I had to do what I could do to stop this. I called Cal at work the next day and told him for the first time, "Cal, I'm worried about your drinking". He said, "Yeah, it's a bit of a problem".

Anyway, he lives between where my kids' mom lives and where I live. After dropping off the kids, I usually stop by and visit with Cal. Tonight I became a real asshole. When Cal let me in tonight, I said, "Hi, Cal! How's the drinking going?". He joked "it's still going, ha, ha, I'm still doing it!, ha ha". Then later this evening he said, "ha ha, a few hours into work I get the shakes, ha, ha".

And I just ****ing lost it. I said, "So Cal! You're a drunk!". He said, "Yeah, I'm a drunk". So I told him, "we're going to find a meeting by your house, when I get back Saturday you and I are going to an AA meeting". And he agreed. So we're going to Cal's first AA meeting this Saturday. It's a good start!

I'm hopeful!

AA is a good place. Saved my life (More from meth than alcohol and a shout to NA too, but in end all the same) and I'm grateful. It's a good thing, but it's slow and takes time.

 

[markjs]

:rofl: AA meetings, the group that has the same success rate as gay conversion therapy. AA just trades one addiction for another although doesnt sound like your friend is addicted hes just depressed

That's complete BS with really ****tty "science" behind it. The actual fact is, folks who are involved do pretty well.

 

[markjs]

Despite your anecdotal experience, AA is pretty much worthless and has a cult like mentality to boot. People who study addictions show the failure rate is north of 90%, yet the organization itself claims to be 75% successful.

Cuz you're reading badly written studies by people with agendas. People who do what is suggested do have a 70% sucess rate eventualy. The study you're listening just blanket takes every person who attended an AA meeting, it never makes any distinction about people who actually "do the program". So yeah, a bunch of bias about something you don't understand.

 

[markjs]

I do. It essentially tries to force God on you, and its success rate is awful compared to other rehabilitation programs.

I don't understand the idea that AA is the best thing out there for all drunks, especially with so many other options out there, except for the fact that it's essentially free.

You really have limited understanding and it shows.

Sucessfull AAs "do the program" if you study folks that do what is suggested AA is pretty darn sucessful. If you measure anyone who has ever gone to AA (especially considering court slip folks) it's not sucessful. So like any treatment, one has to do the treatment for it to work

Second "God as you understand him" (and yeah some people let that get them all hung up on religion), but the program has worked for many Atheist/Agnostic folks (me being that agnostic type)

So yeah, misinformation or incomplete information is rarely helpful.

Oh and another thing, IDK about all areas, but I know AA is a LOT more religious down sotuth than it is up here.

 

[markjs]

What's your expertise?

But it doesn't really matter, because you don't know me or know what I think about treatment and AA versus other options. And I know you're ignorant on the subject, so it's a waste of time engaging you. I'll just leave it for everyone else in this thread that I'm not an AA cultist, I don't believe AA is the only option, and it's not the best option for lots of people. I'm a big believer in treating alcoholism on a number of fronts, because it's a physical disease for some because chronic abuse changes the way our brain produces and reacts to the compounds that keep us centered and content, and that can't be wished away with slogans or meetings. I'm a big believer in some of the newer drugs that are available, and hope they get more widespread use in the U.S. For my own case I vigorously addressed my overall health, exercise, diet, supplements and more based on my reading, a couple of the more than a dozen books I read on addiction and alcoholism.

And I go to meetings because the support is invaluable to me and many others.

The point is alcoholism is a problem that's pretty unique to each individual, who often have lots of different needs, different mental and/or physical and medical problems that need addressing. That doesn't make AA a BAD option for the millions who find a lot of help and support in AA, either as a primary treatment option or as a support group following or alongside other approaches. If you weren't ignorant, you'd know that and recognize it. So take your crap elsewhere.

People LOVE to hate AA.

 

[markjs]

Read the Atlantic article that Crovax posted. It's quite insightful.

One main problem is that AA is often court-mandated; another is that medical treatments for alcohol abuse are rarely explored. The problem is that AA shouldn't be the only option available to anyone, yet by and large it is. That's yet another failure in our medical and mental health systems.

The Bolded is correct, but your anti AA bias is largely uninformed nonsense. No I will not begin to say AA is "scientific" it's not, btut access to a large support group fof people who relate is therautic, science knows this. Just because AA is not "professional" does not whollly invalidate it. LIke I said before too, participation matters. It's not for all, but for those it works for it works well, you're discounting that unfairly.

 

[markjs]

IN the end, a LOT of people built great sober lives with the help of AA, but it means doing the suggestions and sticking with it. Sure it's not "the only treatment" but it can be a wonderful thing for those who it works for. I never have understood why it draws such hate from so many with sucha limited understanding of it.

It really is a thing that works for some, and hating on it. I mean there has to be some motive for that?

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Yeah, like I said - 2 counselors and his brother who is also a retired psychologist who used to counsel wounded warriors.

That's ignorance talking. What's the point of bringing that ignorant crap to this thread?

And you have no f'ing idea if he's addicted or not. If you had a clue, you'd know depression and addiction go hand in hand very frequently, often in a vicious cycle, drinking to self medicate depression, which makes the depression worse over time, leading to more drinking. But forgetting that, you cannot diagnose addiction third hand over the internet.

So every assertion is a fail. Nice job.

Good on you for being a real friend and calling him out! All you can do is show him a mirror and hope he makes the right choice. Assuming he doesn't, don't enable him. Assuming he does, hold his hand and help him any way you can.

I've been through this a couple times and it has gone both ways. I wish you and your friend the best of luck and a lot of strength!

Sounds like you've got your own issues and having failed to resolve them, want some company for your misery.

And perhaps you could use some AA yourself, because your grammar reads like you've been drinking.

I agree with you 100%. If you can't say something helpful in a self help thread then just shut the **** up. Even if you think AA is not as helpful as some there are nicer ways to convey the criticism or concern than being a prick. Good luck with your friend.

And you base this opinion on what?

Remember AA is the first step in a life long solution. What it takes to put the disease in remission for a lifetime takes a lifetime.

You wouldn't think, with three professionals involved, it would be happening but wouldn't hurt to ask him what he's taking. AA members will pick up on it, I would imagine, if he is taking addictive prescription drugs, lots of experience there.

Good luck to your buddy. Kudos to you for being a bud, even when being a bud is a bitch.

AA is a good place. Saved my life (More from meth than alcohol and a shout to NA too, but in end all the same) and I'm grateful. It's a good thing, but it's slow and takes time.

New Group: 12 Steppers https://www.debatepolitics.com/grou...o-begin-a-dp-12-step-group.html#gmessage31568

 

[lurchadams]

So Cal and I went to our second AA meeting today. The chairman and secretary didn't show, so he and I ended up leading the meeting - it wasn't that hard, there are instructions and a script to read from. It went pretty well - there were about 10 other folks there - it was hard to get folks to participate at first - then it was hard to get them not to, cause we almost ran overtime.

I'm proud of my Cal - not only is he going to these meetings but he's going to start up counseling again (I thought he was but apparently he stopped some time ago).

I really feel Cal's on the road to recovery. I told him how proud I am of him today.

 

[augustus]

You should ask your friend why he gives that monster so much power over him. I would never let another human being ruin my world like that.

 

[lurchadams]

Just finished our 3rd meeting. Cal's still drinking but he's drinking less. He still hangs out with his ex-wifes nephew at his house all the time who's not supportive of Cal's quest for sobriety. I hate that ****ing guy.