from some of my reading, as many French if not more are there. One thing many have in common is "English" as a second language which is why it may appear many come from the UK.
That statistic is shameful - however you have to also remember that muslims who join or integrate are never congratulated. If a muslim does something bad then calls go out saying "where is the muslim condemnation?" or "all muslims are bad."
Where is the encouragement for muslims who have integrated? They always have demands that whatever they do is not good enough.
You end up with a self repeating scenario, this happened years ago with blacks in the UK and other European countries. Newspapers headlined with stories of black muggers, black rapists and there was very little incentive for those who would integrate to do so.
What happened was a shift in focus by very senior people - Prince Charles for example asking why there were no black faces in the household guard. Now, the black community is seen as British. Can't speak for other countries in Europe but integration has always been a two-way street.
It is easy every time an ISIS fanatic does something evil to demand that all of Europe's muslims jump up and condemn what has happened but that demand is self-defeating. I see those demands on this forum, in this thread.
You have to ask yourself what you wish to achieve as a society. I'm not saying there is a magic wand that will solve the problem but constant belittling of all muslims isn't helping, belittling their culture and practice doesn't help. I know this won't be popular with those who scream hysterically at Europeans on this forum but popularity has never been my modus operandi.
Most blacks that came to the UK are from the carribean and blacks didn't exist in the carribean. They were brought there and they were raised for centuries into the english environment. In other words, the blacks from the carribean are far more anglicanized than the blacks from africa or the arabs from the ME. The carribean islands, just like all of latin america and north america, are westernized places. SO they're western countries with western influences. For better or worse, sure, they're not the picture perfect view of what you or I would think of western societies but they are western... they're just you know... bad at imitating western europe or america in all measures. Some countries are downright dictatorial, like some latin american countries, but that's a different topic. The point is, the americas, from where the majority of blacks in the UK came from, are western societies.
See, this is an old story but you never get the Americans posting about him. We just get "100% muslims this" and "majority muslims that..."
Never a focus on those bright lights who say "no"
I've posted and will continue to always post stories about people who try and make things better. I do not deny their existence, as some people here would accuse me of doing or as some others would be more than happy that they don't exist to fit a narrative. I do this for this palestinian kid, which btw, I'm sure I posted about sometime last year when this happened... I posted about the handful of french imams who wrote a letter in sympathy for the jews in paris who got targetted, etc. I make distinctions between muslims and turks and iranians as per the way I described.
But even with all of this, knowing all this, and making all the caveats, the result of my thinking is the same. Muslims, those who identify as such (so again, caveats exist and they're mentioned) are unintegratable in western society and are bringing to the table a whole bunch of bad effects, from crime to drain of the welfare system, to social strains, to jihadism, to extremism, etc. And ofc, the influx of these unemployable people and their innability to integrate, because they are unintegratable, will screw us doubly so in the near future when the 2nd wave of automation will hit and a lot of jobs will start disappearing.
This is what the thread should have been about, there is a loose set of people who can be seduced as
this imam states for Reuters.
What we get though is the treatment of that subculture as if it represents ALL islam.
You shouldn't have added that bit; you join the others when you do.
The problem is, and this is what I'm saying, again, knowing all that is brought to the table, knowing all the differences and the nuances and all that good stuff, muslims and islam are unintegratable. Un-assimilatable. un-anything you wanna call it. The fact that imams are selected by the populace, by the community, shows that because the vast majority of imams are on the side of the jihadists, on the side of the extremists, that by direct representation, the vast majority of muslims are tacit or at least not directly vocal supporters of the islamic values, which ofc, are for the most part, completely opposite to western values.
And there is no functioning model for where you can strike a deal. Too much has alreayd been sacrificed on the altar of community cohesion. Too many people, and here just to bring attention to that child trafficking ring that was reported a long time ago in britain, remember that? It was that racist one where muslims men would abduct white girls, underrage girls, to be sold as child brides or for prostitution... and the british police, knowingly didn't act because of fear of being called "racist". So that's exhibit A. But there are plenty more. So. too many people. Too much sacrifice on the part of freedom of expression and free speech. Too much on the part of self-censorship. too much power to groups that are anti-european in all manners. Etc.
Too much.
Tell me, since you're fond of making this comparison. Did the blacks from the carribean ever come and demand that those who insult them be beheaded? The muslims are demanding it. Did they come and demand their own laws from the carribean be implemented? Out of all I read on the issue, because it was before my time ofc, there is no such report to express this. And ofc, the biggest problem with islam is that there is no going half-way. It must be all the way and all the time in their favor and never in yours.
So again, with all the caveats, and all the issues in mind, all the people who have voiced their distaste of islamic principles from both within the people of muslim background and those from without, with the issue of all those who do voice support for all that is islamic from both within the islamic community and those without (because they have their fans), with all the good publicity and the bad press in mind, and with the appropiate caveats for the groups mentioned above, with all this things in mind the reality is that muslims and islamic culture is unintegratable in western society. The incompatibility is too great.
As I said in the OP. This conclusion is something that took about 5 years to come to. First I said that it's just a minority, a tiny minority that is not supported by the majority and is not representative (this is what I held for the largest of time)... then I came to the conclusion that maybe the majority, through inaction, are, willingly or not, the enablers of the extremist minority... now I think that the minority is acting in a way that the majority is not opposed to and in fact, it's an even tinier, almost minuscule group of people of muslim background that are opposed to it and they're basically in direct opposition to the extremists but they're also not supported and their views aren't shared by the majority of muslims who are, as I said, tacitly supporting the extremists, well, most of the time and in most actions.
