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So GOP.What would you say if the shoe was on the other foot?

James D Hill

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Lets say the American public was stupid enought to vote in a republician into the Whitehouse and they had the majority in the senate. Lets say the liberals controlled the house. What would the conservatives say if the liberals in the house said we want to raise corporate tax's 10% and even thought they did not have the majority they where going to shut down the government unless the majority gave in?The screaming would make Judas Priest,King Diamond and Iron Maiden look tame.

I thought conservative where law and order freaks. The ACA is the law of the land. Conservatives had three chances to defeat it and lost every time. They had a chance to vote it down when it went thru the house and senate. They had a chance to defeat it in the 2012 elections when the ACA was front and center. The president ran on the ACA and Romney against it. Then the SCOTUS said it was legal. The conservatives lost all thrre times. Get over it and stop crying like a bunch of babies. The ACA is here to stay.
 

soot

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The ACA is here to stay.

Not necessarially.

I agree that "something" is here to stay but for the ACA to stay it requires buy-in from the millions of young Americans who currently do not have healthcare insurance and who also have little need of healthcare insurance.

The ACA needs young and healthy people paying into the pool so that old and sick people will have money available for their numerous and expensive healthcare claims.

So far all of the scuttlebutt seems to point to this young and healthy population steering clear of the exchanges because it'll cost them about $1000 a year more (out of pocket) to insure themselves via the exchanges than it would to just pay the fine for not participating and be done with it.

The ACA is relying on millions of young people paying premiums in the neighborhood of $1200 to $1500 a year for insurance.

If millions of young people decide that they'd rather just pay a fine that's equivilent to roughly 10% of those premiums than the ACA, as it's written, is dead in the water.
 

James D Hill

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Not necessarially.

I agree that "something" is here to stay but for the ACA to stay it requires buy-in from the millions of young Americans who currently do not have healthcare insurance and who also have little need of healthcare insurance.

The ACA needs young and healthy people paying into the pool so that old and sick people will have money available for their numerous and expensive healthcare claims.

So far all of the scuttlebutt seems to point to this young and healthy population steering clear of the exchanges because it'll cost them about $1000 a year more (out of pocket) to insure themselves via the exchanges than it would to just pay the fine for not participating and be done with it.

The ACA is relying on millions of young people paying premiums in the neighborhood of $1200 to $1500 a year for insurance.

If millions of young people decide that they'd rather just pay a fine that's equivilent to roughly 10% of those premiums than the ACA, as it's written, is dead in the water.

It does need to be fixed but not repealed without another plan. Did you see what the conservatives ideas are? Expanding healthcare savings accounts,changing malpractive and selling crap insurance over state lines thus ending regulation on health insurance. All BS and none of it adresses the problem of un insured Americans.
 

ocean515

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Lets say the American public was stupid enought to vote in a republician into the Whitehouse and they had the majority in the senate. Lets say the liberals controlled the house. What would the conservatives say if the liberals in the house said we want to raise corporate tax's 10% and even thought they did not have the majority they where going to shut down the government unless the majority gave in?The screaming would make Judas Priest,King Diamond and Iron Maiden look tame.

I thought conservative where law and order freaks. The ACA is the law of the land. Conservatives had three chances to defeat it and lost every time. They had a chance to vote it down when it went thru the house and senate. They had a chance to defeat it in the 2012 elections when the ACA was front and center. The president ran on the ACA and Romney against it. Then the SCOTUS said it was legal. The conservatives lost all thrre times. Get over it and stop crying like a bunch of babies. The ACA is here to stay.


Imagine if Congress was controlled by Republicans, along with the White House, and they decided to privatize Social Security. They locked out Democrats, and held votes where not a single Democrat vote was cast in favor of the legislation. They did most of this in the dead of night, on Christmas eve, and then rushed the legislation through before their majority died on January 1.

What do you think the working relationship between the parties would be like if such a thing happened?
 

Unitedwestand13

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Imagine if Congress was controlled by Republicans, along with the White House, and they decided to privatize Social Security. They locked out Democrats, and held votes where not a single Democrat vote was cast in favor of the legislation. They did most of this in the dead of night, on Christmas eve, and then rushed the legislation through before their majority died on January 1.

What do you think the working relationship between the parties would be like if such a thing happened?

you seem to forget one thing.

if it were not for republican votes, the health care bill would have died in committee.
 

James D Hill

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Imagine if Congress was controlled by Republicans, along with the White House, and they decided to privatize Social Security. They locked out Democrats, and held votes where not a single Democrat vote was cast in favor of the legislation. They did most of this in the dead of night, on Christmas eve, and then rushed the legislation through before their majority died on January 1.

What do you think the working relationship between the parties would be like if such a thing happened?

It can't get any worse my friend. Just look at those redneck states doing just what you said when pushing their draconian BS in the dead of night or before vacation so they can avoid getting raked over the coals for their right wing BS. The conservatives had their chance to stop the ACA and they lost.
 

James D Hill

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you seem to forget one thing.

if it were not for republican votes, the health care bill would have died in committee.

They forget lots of things like their law and order stance when the ACA is the law of the land.
 

ocean515

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It can't get any worse my friend. Just look at those redneck states doing just what you said when pushing their draconian BS in the dead of night or before vacation so they can avoid getting raked over the coals for their right wing BS. The conservatives had their chance to stop the ACA and they lost.

Yes. However my good man, how does this answer my question?
 

Ockham

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IT needs to be fixed and it's not even fully in effect yet. The primary reason Obamacare was put forth was to lower costs and it doesn't. I think it's more a matter of saving face that it's still chugging along and hasn't been modified yet. The primary problem is that tens of thousands hundreds of thousands (maybe more) will be negatively affected by this law. I now think Justice Roberts saw something in the tea leaves and sided with letting this law go forward knowing it will be a huge cluster**** - of course that's just supposition.

Insurance isn't a "right" or wasn't until Obamacare. It was common sense wasn't it? Cover 20 million more Americans and the cost goes down? Then the exceptions for Congress, Unions, lots of others. It was unpopular before we read it, but we were assured that people don't like it because they are ignorant. After 3 years of planning and partial implementation, American's still don't want it. If you want to insure uninsured American's then do that without screwing the other 310 million people in this country in the process. I do wish the Democrats who wrote the bill and passed it on their own would be required to use it, but alas, Congress decided that wasn't a good idea and voted against that provision. Call me skeptical, but if the people who wrote it and passed it don't want it... it's probably ****.
 

James D Hill

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Yes. However my good man, how does this answer my question?

I guess I don't understand? The GOP was not blocked from voting on the ACA. They lost fair and square. Your senero would cause screaming that would be historic. How does this apply to this?
 

ocean515

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Then we should be talking how to make it better not repealing it.

It seems to me that is a question that should have been taken up before we got to where we are.

In my opinion this whole mess has been orchestrated to eventually force the nation into a single payer plan.
 

James D Hill

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IT needs to be fixed and it's not even fully in effect yet. The primary reason Obamacare was put forth was to lower costs and it doesn't. I think it's more a matter of saving face that it's still chugging along and hasn't been modified yet. The primary problem is that tens of thousands hundreds of thousands (maybe more) will be negatively affected by this law. I now think Justice Roberts saw something in the tea leaves and sided with letting this law go forward knowing it will be a huge cluster**** - of course that's just supposition.

Insurance isn't a "right" or wasn't until Obamacare. It was common sense wasn't it? Cover 20 million more Americans and the cost goes down? Then the exceptions for Congress, Unions, lots of others. It was unpopular before we read it, but we were assured that people don't like it because they are ignorant. After 3 years of planning and partial implementation, American's still don't want it. If you want to insure uninsured American's then do that without screwing the other 310 million people in this country in the process. I do wish the Democrats who wrote the bill and passed it on their own would be required to use it, but alas, Congress decided that wasn't a good idea and voted against that provision. Call me skeptical, but if the people who wrote it and passed it don't want it... it's probably ****.

Repeal is out of the queston my friend. The GOP had three chances and lost every time so fixing it is the only option.
 

James D Hill

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It seems to me that is a question that should have been taken up before we got to where we are.

In my opinion this whole mess has been orchestrated to eventually force the nation into a single payer plan.

Which is what us liberals want.
 

Captain America

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Not necessarially.

I agree that "something" is here to stay but for the ACA to stay it requires buy-in from the millions of young Americans who currently do not have healthcare insurance and who also have little need of healthcare insurance.

The ACA needs young and healthy people paying into the pool so that old and sick people will have money available for their numerous and expensive healthcare claims.

So far all of the scuttlebutt seems to point to this young and healthy population steering clear of the exchanges because it'll cost them about $1000 a year more (out of pocket) to insure themselves via the exchanges than it would to just pay the fine for not participating and be done with it.

The ACA is relying on millions of young people paying premiums in the neighborhood of $1200 to $1500 a year for insurance.

If millions of young people decide that they'd rather just pay a fine that's equivilent to roughly 10% of those premiums than the ACA, as it's written, is dead in the water.

Exactamundo. I couldn't have explained it better myself. Well, actually....

In theory, everyone is for better and affordable healthcare. The GOP will never properly address the issue, other than to obstruct any attempts to take any powers from the fat cat insurance companies and medical industry tycoons that reward them so generously. That's their bread and butter "campaign contributions." Don't ever expect the GOP to put the needs of the average citizen over the interests of big business and their personal agendas.

But the ACA will not work as written. It's a very noble concept to actually have addressed the issue and even more applaud-able to actually get something, anything, passed. But it is simply not self sustaining.
 

ocean515

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I guess I don't understand? The GOP was not blocked from voting on the ACA. They lost fair and square. Your senero would cause screaming that would be historic. How does this apply to this?

Of course they lost. That much is true. If I understood your point, your issue is the animosity and unwillingness to work together that reigns in Congress.

I presented an scenario that the Democrats in Congress would be very angry about - Privatizing Social Security. If Republicans had done that, do you think Democrats would be willing to work to pass additional legislation they were opposed to, or would they be doing everything they could to stop the Republicans?
 

AlabamaPaul

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You mean liberals from the 1700's. 20th century liberal are for it.

No, I mean liberals that support individual decision making, not those posers looking to the government to take care of everyone...
 

ocean515

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Which is what us liberals want.

Of course it is. And we understand the slippery slope liberals are trying to push the country down.

What have Republicans been doing in Congress that is illegal?

If Democrats can unilateraly take control of such a massive part of economy of the country, the concern becomes what else are they going to try to do?

I support any legal means to stop that from happening.
 

James D Hill

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Of course they lost. That much is true. If I understood your point, your issue is the animosity and unwillingness to work together that reigns in Congress.

I presented an scenario that the Democrats in Congress would be very angry about - Privatizing Social Security. If Republicans had done that, do you think Democrats would be willing to work to pass additional legislation they were opposed to, or would they be doing everything they could to stop the Republicans?

The fight is over. The GOP lost. They are hurting the economy and human beings by being so stubborn. They act like the ACA is more important than jobs. They hate any entitlement unless it is to a big corporation. I see your point though. This group of conservatives are more mean and nasty than ever and I know why. They have been getting their heads handed to them on the national level which undermines their victory at the state level. They also know they are losing the culture wars and don't even want to debate it anymore.
 

James D Hill

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Of course it is. And we understand the slippery slope liberals are trying to push the country down.

What have Republicans been doing in Congress that is illegal?

If Democrats can unilateraly take control of such a massive part of economy of the country, the concern becomes what else are they going to try to do?

I support any legal means to stop that from happening.

It is not going to happen. They know the people are going to like it when they get it. Why else would they be fighting it so desperatly for. Remember they also hated social security,medicare,medicade and the VA and now those are loved.
 
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