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so for those that were blaming Bush for high gas prices....

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ProudAmerican said:
are ya ready to praise him because they are consistently falling?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175561,00.html
I can already tell you their answer. The answer is no. Giving him any credit would go against the Bash-Bush-at-All-Costs plan. They are quick to blame him for the oil increase, but they will be silent as the prices fall.
 

shuamort

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From the article:
One of the key factors underpinning the high price of gasoline is the cost of crude oil, which has been elevated by strong demand, tight global supplies and geopolitical uncertainties.
He's not to blame for China's evergrowing dependence on oil which is helping drive the prices up. Although, the administration could start pushing for alternative fuel sources (more E-85) and more alternate fuels (hybrids) so we're less dependent on these market fluctuations.

He could be praised for working with Congress to ease construction regulations regarding more refineries. The only problem with that is that the bill would allow the agency to override local laws that prohibit refineries in the area. (We're talking emminent domain problems there).
 

Old and wise

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Bush is not to blame for RECENT energy price increases or decreases.

He is to blame for past increases when he invaded Iraq. My fuel oil price was a hell of a lot cheaper before he went on his revenge war.
 

scottyz

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shuamort said:
He could be praised for working with Congress to ease construction regulations regarding more refineries. The only problem with that is that the bill would allow the agency to override local laws that prohibit refineries in the area. (We're talking emminent domain problems there).
Aren't they closing two refineries in CA? The oil industry doesn't seem to be in a big rush to build more refineries... that might lower prices.
 

Calm2Chaos

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scottyz said:
Aren't they closing two refineries in CA? The oil industry doesn't seem to be in a big rush to build more refineries... that might lower prices.
Correct me if I am wrong here.. But the oil industry ad building refineries have nothing to do with each other. It's not the refineries that are unwilling to build them. It's the environmentalist and there lobby that are not willing to let it happen. Course these are the same people that are unwilling to allow drilling where the oil actuall is in this country.
 

scottyz

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Calm2Chaos said:
Correct me if I am wrong here.. But the oil industry ad building refineries have nothing to do with each other. It's not the refineries that are unwilling to build them. It's the environmentalist and there lobby that are not willing to let it happen. Course these are the same people that are unwilling to allow drilling where the oil actuall is in this country.
How do you think a few environmentalists could stop a billion dollar industry with lots of politicians in their pockets from building refineries? Why are they closing refineries themselves?
 

Calm2Chaos

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scottyz said:
How do you think a few environmentalists could stop a billion dollar industry with lots of politicians in their pockets from building refineries? Why are they closing refineries themselves?
So you think that the environmental lobby in washington is a few guys in there den organizing rallies? Or a more plausible scenario IMO is that it is a organization with huge numbers and is very well funded. In addition, carries a lot of weight with its votes. Who is stopping us from drilling in the Arctic and the gulf? It damm sure isn't the oil companies.

As for closing refineries I can't tell you. Stream line the process maybe, maximize profits probably. Could be due to new environmental laws or ordinances. Maye it has something to do with obslesence. The truth is this is a company, not a non profit organization. And as a publicly traded company they are by law required to maximize profits. I was listening to an econimcs professor concerning these profits. Vitually every retirment fund is tied in to oil companies. There profits are whats driving 401 k's ect ect. This money isn't just dropping into there pockets. I am under no illisions with the oil companies, I put them on the same list as lawyers and insurance companies. But to blame the problems we are having now soley on them seems short sighted. Specially considering the opposition they have to deal with just to do there job.
 

scottyz

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Calm2Chaos said:
So you think that the environmental lobby in washington is a few guys in there den organizing rallies? Or a more plausible scenario IMO is that it is a organization with huge numbers and is very well funded. In addition, carries a lot of weight with its votes. Who is stopping us from drilling in the Arctic and the gulf? It damm sure isn't the oil companies.
I doubt the politicians or big oil care about a few thousand hippies rallying. I also doubt they have even close to the same amount of funds available for lobbying that big oil does. Even Bush's cabinet is made up almost entirely of people from the oil industry. It was Republicans, not environmentalists who have decided against artic drilling.
As for closing refineries I can't tell you. Stream line the process maybe, maximize profits probably. Could be due to new environmental laws or ordinances. Maye it has something to do with obslesence. The truth is this is a company, not a non profit organization. And as a publicly traded company they are by law required to maximize profits. I was listening to an econimcs professor concerning these profits. Vitually every retirment fund is tied in to oil companies. There profits are whats driving 401 k's ect ect. This money isn't just dropping into there pockets. I am under no illisions with the oil companies, I put them on the same list as lawyers and insurance companies. But to blame the problems we are having now soley on them seems short sighted. Specially considering the opposition they have to deal with just to do there job.
The FTC investigated them for closing the plants because they believed it was an attempt to raise prices, but ruled this wasn't the case.

BAKERSFIELD, California (October 15, 2004) – Shell Oil Products has confirmed that it is negotiating with several parties for the possible sale of its oil refinery here.
Shell reconsidered its plans to close the refinery last April, in the wake of widespread public opposition. Critics charged the company was closing the plant as part of a strategy for driving up local gasoline prices, and their complaints drew the attention of the Federal Trade Commission and the California Attorney General. Shell denied the accusations, saying it had planned to close the refinery because of declines in the availability of the local crude it was designed to process.

In April, Lynn Elsenhans, President and CEO of Shell Oil Products US, said the company would renew its efforts to sell the refinery but did not expect to meet with success. “We still believe that once potential buyers take a close look at the facility and its available crude supply, that they will reach the same conclusion that we have: That this refinery is not economically viable going forward for a number of reasons, including the cost and availability of the crude needed to run the facility,” Elsenhans said then.
The 72-year-old refinery is one of only 13 remaining in operation in California. At the time it announced plans to close the refinery, Shell said that the refinery had lost money two of the three previous years and predicted it would lose money again in 2004. As justification for the closure, it also cited the declining availability of San Joaquin Valley crude, an unusual heavy crude available exclusively in the area around the refinery.

But critics of the plan claimed that Shell’s justifications didn’t stand up under scrutiny. Internal company documents secured by The Foundation for Consumer and Taxpayer Rights (FCTR), a Santa Monica-based group that led the battle to save the facility, indicated that the refinery was profitable in 2003 and in fact had the highest profit margin of Shell’s eight U.S. refineries at 55 cents per gallon. That is 36 cents per gallon more than at Shell’s refinery in Port Arthur, Texas.

FCTR also questioned Shell’s contention that locally produced crude oil is in short supply, citing statistics from Chevron Texaco and the State of California that indicate crude oil supplies in San Joaquin Valley are sufficient for another 20-35 years. Shell argued, however, that much of that crude is not available to it because it is produced by Chevron Texaco. CT cannot sell the crude to Shell, Shell contends, as a condition of Texaco’s agreements with the Federal Trade Commission that cleared the way for the merger of Chevron and Texaco. Those agreements required Texaco to sell its share in the Bakersfield Refinery and limited other, related activities.
http://www.eyeforenergy.com/news.asp?id=367

From a Republican Senators investigation.
“As observed over the last few years and as projected well into the future, the most critical
factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the
surplus gasoline production capacity. The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining
industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery
margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist
in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline.”
Internal Texaco document, March 7, 1996

“A senior energy analyst at the recent API (American Petroleum Institute) convention
warned that if the U.S. petroleum industry doesn’t reduce its refining capacity, it will never
see any substantial increase in refining margins…However, refining utilization has been
rising, sustaining high levels of operations, thereby keeping prices low.”
Internal Chevron document, November 30, 1995
http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/38/pubs/oilinvest.pdf
 

mikeey

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blaming Bush okay then i agree let him take all the oil and gas

**** the muslims.

DOG EAT DOG.

and lets go a head y not.

mikeey.

ps. they have had it there way for a long time, now it is our turn.

mikeey
 

Hoot

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I bought gas yesterday and it was only $2.09/gal.

I guess I was wrong about Bush? ROTFL!!!!
 

JustMyPOV

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The Oil Industry owns the government. This is a cute little show the Senate is putting on right now, calling all of the executives of the oil companies to explain record earnings for the summer quarter. They're only doing it because it's one of the current fads in the news, and a large number of them are up for re-election next year. Same reason they're all distancing themselves from Bush and his 36% approval rating.

Now that the companies have lowered prices, it will blow over fairly quickly, because the American people have a very short attention span. Oh, and isn't it funny that there hasn't been a full restoration of Gulf production, and yet, we're paying less now than even before Katrina ravaged the the Gulf Coast? Perhaps the bad press they've been getting over those record profits??? But what are we going to do about it? We have to get to work, right?

The reality is, all the tough talk and rhetoric is going to amount to nothing in the long haul, and nothing will be done to ease big oil's strangle-hold over the American economy, which will continue until all of the wells have run dry.
 

JOHNYJ

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The senate 's committee's hearing was a joke.What it did show was that the Republicans are in bed with the Oil companies.Republican Senator Stevens from Alaska blocked any hard questioning of the Oil company executives and gave the American People an
example of what, the word ' Stooge" meant by his behaviour.President Bush will never allow any harsh treatment of or inquiry into ,oil company behaviour.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
The senate 's committee's hearing was a joke.What it did show was that the Republicans are in bed with the Oil companies.Republican Senator Stevens from Alaska blocked any hard questioning of the Oil company executives and gave the American People an
example of what, the word ' Stooge" meant by his behaviour.President Bush will never allow any harsh treatment of or inquiry into ,oil company behaviour.
you dont seriously think republicans are the only people in washington that own oil stocks do you?
 

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ProudAmerican said:
are ya ready to praise him because they are consistently falling?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175561,00.html
Yeah, right...did you even read the very story you posted?
Pump prices are still 32.7 cents higher than a year ago.
Are you proud that the Oil Companies made record profits in the 3rd quarter this year while Americans were made homeless due to hurricanes? Are you proud that our automakers are about to file bankruptcy due to the price of gasoline?

Lots to be proud of when it concerns oil prices and the oil companies...if you happen to be an oil company!
 

scottyz

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JOHNYJ said:
The senate 's committee's hearing was a joke.What it did show was that the Republicans are in bed with the Oil companies.Republican Senator Stevens from Alaska blocked any hard questioning of the Oil company executives and gave the American People an
He was just making sure their asses were covered in case they got caught... nothing wrong with that... :3oops:
 

ProudAmerican

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26 X World Champs said:
Yeah, right...did you even read the very story you posted?

Are you proud that the Oil Companies made record profits in the 3rd quarter this year while Americans were made homeless due to hurricanes? Are you proud that our automakers are about to file bankruptcy due to the price of gasoline?

Lots to be proud of when it concerns oil prices and the oil companies...if you happen to be an oil company!
and prices a year ago were higher than they were the year before. whats your point? also, I bet its not still 32.7 cents as I type this response.

my point was simple. the president has no controll over gas prices whether they are at a record high, or a record low.

but many partisan hacks love to jump on the band waggon.

as far as oil companies making a profit......thats capitalism. plain and simple. right or wrong.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Are you proud that the Oil Companies made record profits in the 3rd quarter this year while Americans were made homeless due to hurricanes?
What were their profit margins compared to other industries?

Are you proud that our automakers are about to file bankruptcy due to the price of gasoline?
Why are so many other car companies booming and building new plants here as fast as they can?

Lots to be proud of when it concerns oil prices and the oil companies...if you happen to be an oil company!
If you think the oil companies are producing high profit margins are you investing in them?
 

JOHNYJ

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RE : Proud American # 15
We are not talking stock ownership. These are personal feriends of the President.People who have secret meetings with the administratio when its making national policies having to do with energy.
Its also the people that President Bush and Cheney are going to get positions on their boards of directors.For which they will be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 

Hoot

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I don't resent oil companies making profits.

What I resent is Bush giving them 8 billion in tax breaks, while the oil companies report 10 billion in profits in the last quarter!
 

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KCConservative said:
I can already tell you their answer. The answer is no. Giving him any credit would go against the Bash-Bush-at-All-Costs plan. They are quick to blame him for the oil increase, but they will be silent as the prices fall.

Hey I really really really dislike Bush. I think he is a liar and a traitor to the United States. And I admit that I did blame him for the high gas prices until I was fully informed... it was hurricane Katrina that destroyed LAs oil refineries that really jacked up the prices and perhaps to a lesser extent the ubber greedy price gouging $35,000,000,000.00 richer oil execs.

I will not praise him either because it wasn't just him that opened the federal oil reserve up to help out. Unfortunatly, IMO to most conservative republicans, President Bush is not a dictator or king. Our government is a 2 party system with 3 branches. They all had to agree and I'm glad they did.
 

ShullsM

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JustMyPOV said:
The Oil Industry owns the government. This is a cute little show the Senate is putting on right now, calling all of the executives of the oil companies to explain record earnings for the summer quarter. They're only doing it because it's one of the current fads in the news, and a large number of them are up for re-election next year. Same reason they're all distancing themselves from Bush and his 36% approval rating.
I think the oil industry probably owns much of the GOP. They are not fooling anybody by calling these guys in. They didn't even make them testify under oath. And when Boxer and Cantwell requested they do so, they were shot down immediately. And then of course, 3-5 days later, it came out that the execs had been part of one of Cheney's task forces, which they said they weren't part of. If the show benefited anybody, it was the Dems.
 

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JustMyPOV said:
The Oil Industry owns the government. This is a cute little show the Senate is putting on right now, calling all of the executives of the oil companies to explain record earnings for the summer quarter. They're only doing it because it's one of the current fads in the news, and a large number of them are up for re-election next year. Same reason they're all distancing themselves from Bush and his 36% approval rating.

Now that the companies have lowered prices, it will blow over fairly quickly, because the American people have a very short attention span. Oh, and isn't it funny that there hasn't been a full restoration of Gulf production, and yet, we're paying less now than even before Katrina ravaged the the Gulf Coast? Perhaps the bad press they've been getting over those record profits??? But what are we going to do about it? We have to get to work, right?

The reality is, all the tough talk and rhetoric is going to amount to nothing in the long haul, and nothing will be done to ease big oil's strangle-hold over the American economy, which will continue until all of the wells have run dry.
I'm on the fence about blaming the Big Oil executives.I hear the economist say that the market dictates what the price per barrel is but at the same time prices came down fast after the Senate "investigation" (more like politicians getting face time).Industries are very afraid of the Senate. Did big oil get nervous and bring down the prices in fear of more Federal interferance?
 

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The liberal/socialist/anti-capitalist/enviromental wackos were all happy that the price of gas was going up so that maybe we could get some alternative fuels in the market and people may trade in their SUVs because of the high gas prices. To them I say congradulations. GMC announced that due to the declining sales of SUVs they have to close down some manufactoring facilities. 30,000 JOBS! CONGRADULATIONS!
 
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