So, Erdogan is Issuing USA Ultimatums Now.

[PeteEU]

Yes maybe no
Turkey submits documents to US seeking Gulen extradition | News | DW.COM | 05.08.2016

Okay, so they did it. Nice to know. The first time they demanded extraction though, they had not yet done so.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Not much in the way of choices. Think of another 1/2 million Syrians landing in Greece?? And Turkey is a strategic partner. Look at a map. Clear as the nose on your face.

You seem to be operating under the belief that Turkey can still be saved for Europe. I think that option has passed for the foreseeable future, by that I mean generations. I think it is irretrievable that Turkey joins team Russia/China/Iran, the only question is how much they fleece the West for before they leave officially.

 

[JANFU]

Okay, so they did it. Nice to know. The first time they demanded extraction though, they had not yet done so.

Turkey submits documents to US seeking Gulen extradition | News | DW.COM | 05.08.2016

"The Turkish authorities (made) several deliveries of documents to us and we're in the process of going through those documents," Toner said.

Of the first batch, Toner said it "did not, we believe, constitute a formal extradition request."

He added: "We subsequently received more documents. We're looking through them ... and I don't think they've reached that determination yet."

So the documents received are Not Yet.
Then in the end, the State Dept has the last say.President really, but handed off to Sec State. If approved then IIRC it goes thru the courts.

 

[JANFU]

You seem to be operating under the belief that Turkey can still be saved for Europe. I think that option has passed for the foreseeable future, by that I mean generations. I think it is irretrievable that Turkey joins team Russia/China/Iran, the only question is how much they fleece the West for before they leave officially.

Nope- they will just become uncooperative with NATO -EU- US

 

[Chagos]

But they can be uncooperative.

Their middle name, certainly under this leadership

 

[JANFU]

Their middle name, certainly under this leadership

Well he pissed in so many countries cornflakes, he has started to make amends- Russia- Israel over a stable gas supply.
And IIRC the Govt is heavily subsidized by Saudi.

 

[Chagos]

Well he pissed in so many countries cornflakes, he has started to make amends- Russia- Israel over a stable gas supply.
And IIRC the Govt is heavily subsidized by Saudi.

The thing is that nobody trusts him. Alliances of convenience may be made so that any (or all) participants make money of them but beyond that everybody realizes that he's a loose cannon.

His "Greater Turkey" ambitions have everybody wary (China's Uighurs are a turc people and I've already mentioned Russia) and all we have to do is look at the disparity of interests in Syria, where he wants Assad gone and Putin wants Assad staying.

As for us (from US to EU and the rest of the Western world) who needs an enemy with an ally like that?

The EU sure as heck doesn't want him in and what good he is to NATO by now is everybody's guess. Heck, it's common knowledge that he even supported IS for years until the beast he fed across the border came visiting.

People that are clearly unstable provide stability for nobody.

 

[JANFU]

The thing is that nobody trusts him. Alliances of convenience may be made so that any (or all) participants make money of them but beyond that everybody realizes that he's a loose cannon.

His "Greater Turkey" ambitions have everybody wary (China's Uighurs are a turc people and I've already mentioned Russia) and all we have to do is look at the disparity of interests in Syria, where he wants Assad gone and Putin wants Assad staying.

As for us (from US to EU and the rest of the Western world) who needs an enemy with an ally like that?

The EU sure as heck doesn't want him in and what good he is to NATO by now is everybody's guess. Heck, it's common knowledge that he even supported IS for years until the beast he fed across the border came visiting.

People that are clearly unstable provide stability for nobody.

And Saudi- Qatar support for Syria is to block Iranian NG pipelines. That and they hate Shiites

 

[Lafayette]

It peeves you to see me call B. Hussein Obama out for the spineless Marxist liar he is. So, like many people who share your political views, you try to silence me. Won't work. Within the rules of these forums, I will continue to make whatever comments I please.

It peeves me to see such mindless crap as "commentary" in a debate-forum - even if you change the name above to Donald Trump, or Paul Ryan ...

Get a brain ...
______________

 

[matchlight]

Well that basically invalidates any US extradition treaty... just saying. Most foreigners are given "Kangaroo court" situations when they are handed over to the US.

Just saying--there are no "kangaroo courts" in the United States. However due process may be abbreviated in Turkey--or, for that matter, in whatever nation you live in--here we are serious about it. Any person who had been extradited and then tried in a court in the U.S. would have the right to appeal, if he believed he had been wrongly convicted for any reason. Your attempt at a cheap slander against this country, by likening America's system of justice to Turkey's under Erdogan, is uninformed.

 

[Ahlevah]

This guy makes more miscalculations than even Obama. Also, being unreliable and pissing EVERYONE off is no way to get ahead in this world.

He ranted about Russian incursions into Turkish airspace, which culminated in shooting down one of Putin's planes. Then all of those Russians who liked to visit Turkish beaches on holiday decided to stay home. Now he wants to be best buds with Putin again.

 

[Wiggen]

Erdogan is just the kind of guy the Far Left in Europe loves. He hates America, gets chummy with the Russians, and generally is a pain in the ass to western democracies. They are willing to overlook the fact that he's an autocratic, undemocratic thug as long as he 'gives it' to the Yanks. Pretty amusing.

 

[matchlight]

F turkey but what the hell are 50 nukes doing on an air force base there? This is proof that we should pretty much never listen to the Generals. At the very least move them to Diego Garcia.

The U.S. has maintained some nuclear weapons in Turkey since the 1950's, just as it had with other members of NATO. I'm sure a lot of thought went into securing them, wherever they were placed. There may be good reasons for maintaining those weapons at Incirlik, although it's not nearly as easy to see what they are as it was during the Cold War.

 

[Hawkeye10]

He ranted about Russian incursions into Turkish airspace, which culminated in shooting down one of Putin's planes. Then all of those Russians who liked to visit Turkish beaches on holiday decided to stay home. Now he wants to be best buds with Putin again.

So much so that it appears that the Turks are coming around to seeing that Assad can stay. They are up to "for now".

Turkey: Assad can be part of transition in Syria

 

[Chagos]

So much so that it appears that the Turks are coming around to seeing that Assad can stay. They are up to "for now".

Turkey: Assad can be part of transition in Syria

He'll go with whatever way he thinks the wind is currently blowing.

Having screwed it up with virtually everyone, he's now trying to fill holes he dug. In the process hoping to play the odd side against the other, as always.

Anything coming from that source isn't worth the air it's transported on.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Turkey's Erdogan to US: Hand over exiled cleric Gulen - CNNPolitics.com

I have been saying for awhile that Turkey needs to get pushed out of NATO and told that they are not welcome in Europe. Yes I know that means they join team China/Russia. THese people simply cant be trusted, they have low value as a team member.

And lets get our nukes the hell out now, regardless.

Thoughts?

Erdogan is dangerous. He's an authoritarian fascist who places value in theocracy. He has power where few in that region do, and under the right circumstances, he could do real damage.

What to do about him? I'm not sure. I wouldn't give him military weapons, however, or be hopeful about working with him. With the radicalization of right-wing groups across the world, from Putin to Erdogan to Trump to the fascists in Eastern Europe and Poland and France, it seems that there's quite a bit of danger in these authoritarian leaders. If they decide to start working together, that could be very, very bad.

The more neoliberalism suppresses left-wing movements, the more they ensure that right-wing despots will continue to crop up all over the world. Despite my seething dislike of authoritarianism and also Islamism, I think that neoliberal capitalism is probably the most dangerous ideology in human history. It's superficially rational, but when it's policies are implemented, it leads to wild disintegration of social structures and establishments --which promotes the massive instabilities that follow. And that opens the door to otherwise totally unacceptable ideas, like fascism, Islamism, Communism, etc.

 

[PeteEU]

Just saying--there are no "kangaroo courts" in the United States.

Well I and many others would disagree there.. maybe not the "court" but the legal system. Many countries are refusing to extradite to the US now days due to the "legal system" breaking agreement after agreement..

However due process may be abbreviated in Turkey--or, for that matter, in whatever nation you live in--here we are serious about it. Any person who had been extradited and then tried in a court in the U.S. would have the right to appeal, if he believed he had been wrongly convicted for any reason. Your attempt at a cheap slander against this country, by likening America's system of justice to Turkey's under Erdogan, is uninformed.

Yes if that person had the money to afford an even half decent lawyer. And I am not comparing the Turkish or American legal systems..I am pointing out the problems with the US legal system that many foreigners experience.

 

[Lafayette]

Erdogan is just the kind of guy the Far Left in Europe loves

Brainless nonsense.

You are associating the Left with Erdogan just because it suits your stoopid purpose.

Before making such a statement, it would help if you had proof or at least one cogent comment from a well-known newspaper that has done its homework and proven the accusation.

Erdogan is an ardent Muslim and a conservative. (See here.)

Get your facts right before vomiting in this forum.

Till that "magic moment" happens, keep your ribald comments to yourself ...
____________________

 

[Hawkeye10]

He'll go with whatever way he thinks the wind is currently blowing.

Having screwed it up with virtually everyone, he's now trying to fill holes he dug. In the process hoping to play the odd side against the other, as always.

Anything coming from that source isn't worth the air it's transported on.

Ya but here is the thing.....where he thinks the gravy is located seldom turns out the be the location of any good gravy. I dont see how this changes, especially since he seems to surround himself with sycophants. The military cant talk to him anymore, not since so much of the top people were just sifted out because Erdogan wanted them gone.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Erdogan is dangerous. He's an authoritarian fascist who places value in theocracy. He has power where few in that region do, and under the right circumstances, he could do real damage.

What to do about him? I'm not sure. I wouldn't give him military weapons, however, or be hopeful about working with him. With the radicalization of right-wing groups across the world, from Putin to Erdogan to Trump to the fascists in Eastern Europe and Poland and France, it seems that there's quite a bit of danger in these authoritarian leaders. If they decide to start working together, that could be very, very bad.

The more neoliberalism suppresses left-wing movements, the more they ensure that right-wing despots will continue to crop up all over the world. Despite my seething dislike of authoritarianism and also Islamism, I think that neoliberal capitalism is probably the most dangerous ideology in human history. It's superficially rational, but when it's policies are implemented, it leads to wild disintegration of social structures and establishments --which promotes the massive instabilities that follow. And that opens the door to otherwise totally unacceptable ideas, like fascism, Islamism, Communism, etc.

Wasn't one of the half dozen biggest blunders offering them entry into Europe when near as I can figure almost no one wanted them, and then doing nothing much to promote getting it done? Me, a girl asks me out, says that she wants to jump my bones, then as the night progresses I figure out that she does not really want me at all, she was just playing games in her head, and maybe I find out too that her life is a wreck and maybe she should be working on herself and not leading men on because she clearly is in no position to finish anything if we started anything......if this is my night.....I would be gone, and would not look back.

 

[Hawkeye10]

He ranted about Russian incursions into Turkish airspace, which culminated in shooting down one of Putin's planes. Then all of those Russians who liked to visit Turkish beaches on holiday decided to stay home. Now he wants to be best buds with Putin again.

THis ran into real money. Also, the Germans are not going this year, it has been a complete bust so far as tourism goes, which is a major part of the economy.

 

[Chagos]

Ya but here is the thing.....where he thinks the gravy is located seldom turns out the be the location of any good gravy. I dont see how this changes, especially since he seems to surround himself with sycophants. The military cant talk to him anymore, not since so much of the top people were just sifted out because Erdogan wanted them gone.

Yup, that IS the thing.

 

[Wiggen]

Brainless nonsense.

You are associating the Left with Erdogan just because it suits your stoopid purpose.

Before making such a statement, it would help if you had proof or at least one cogent comment from a well-known newspaper that has done its homework and proven the accusation.

Erdogan is an ardent Muslim and a conservative. (See here.)

Get your facts right before vomiting in this forum.

Till that "magic moment" happens, keep your ribald comments to yourself ...
____________________

I didn't say he was Far Left. I said the European Far Left loves him because he's virulently anti-American. Just like you. You might learn to read before you post ignorance. But then again, why should you start now?

"Ribald comments"? Is English a second language for you? If so, I'd suggest investing in a good dictionary and then the first word you should look up is 'ribald'.:lamo

 

[Tigerace117]

Erdogan is dangerous. He's an authoritarian fascist who places value in theocracy. He has power where few in that region do, and under the right circumstances, he could do real damage.

What to do about him? I'm not sure. I wouldn't give him military weapons, however, or be hopeful about working with him. With the radicalization of right-wing groups across the world, from Putin to Erdogan to Trump to the fascists in Eastern Europe and Poland and France, it seems that there's quite a bit of danger in these authoritarian leaders. If they decide to start working together, that could be very, very bad.

The more neoliberalism suppresses left-wing movements, the more they ensure that right-wing despots will continue to crop up all over the world. Despite my seething dislike of authoritarianism and also Islamism, I think that neoliberal capitalism is probably the most dangerous ideology in human history. It's superficially rational, but when it's policies are implemented, it leads to wild disintegration of social structures and establishments --which promotes the massive instabilities that follow. And that opens the door to otherwise totally unacceptable ideas, like fascism, Islamism, Communism, etc.

The problem with that, of course, is that lots of those left wing movements are just as authoritarian as the right wingers when they get into power.

 

[Lafayette]

I said the European Far Left loves him because he's virulently anti-American.

And so now you are also an expert on Europe's Far Left? They hate Erdogan because he's an autocrat. Like those Turks who think he's changing Turkey into a Muslim-state.

And you are not "slightly liberal". Like most liberals, you criticize the Left without having the slightest notion of what it means - particularly as regards a Social Democracy ...
_________________________

What next ...
_______________