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So.... Donald Trump doesn't believe in American Exceptionalism

I would argue that with 17 candidates, it's extremely difficult to win a majority, but when the candidates dropped-out Mr. Trump did indeed pull majority votes.

You do make some some technical points (ex: Dem strategic cross-over), but I believe these points are so small in nature as to be relatively inconsequential.

Now what I will say to slightly ameliorate my own position, is: The GOP establishment and politicos fostered an environment where subsets of their voters were encouraged, or at least accepted, to believe all sorts of outlandish claims. Whether Birther, or death panels, or Kenyan citizenship, or etc., - the GOP tacitly (or wholeheartedly) agreed and embraced these aberrant trains of thought, all for political expediency.

Who in the GOP was calling-out Trump, when he claimed Obama wasn't born here and was lacking a birth certificate? We know that answer.

So by laying that foundation, I see the GOP laying the seeds for the revolution that just occurred. Without those years of inadvertent preparation, this would not have happened (at least not now, in this manner). It's not a qualitative jump at all from: 'Presidents lacking citizenship' --> to 'American judges with immigrant heritage being unqualified to preside'. This is really scary stuff. I hope we don't disallow judges with Polish or Italian ancestry, 'cuz then I and my family are off limits to the bench it would seem!

Fair enough, although I strongly disagree. In my view, the Republican establishment on a regular basis called out those who claimed to be Republicans or conservatives or Tea Party types who made outlandish claims about Obama or about any number of issues. The Republican Party leadership has been inundated with fringe fools who glommed onto them for lack of any other vehicle to spew their nonsense. It is why the Republican Party leadership took the 2014 mid-term nomination process into their own hands and actively promoted candidates who could win contentious elections instead of the Tea Party types and others who made winnable elections contentious and cost the party the Senate in both 2010 and 2012. As a result, the Republicans took the Senate in 2014. The Republican Party establishment did not foster or promote the idiocy - they actively fought against it.

But the GOP establishment was no match for a media that latched onto Trump and made him the entire primary story for the past year. There was zero the party could do, short of somehow disqualifying him from running for the nomination, that would have overcome the media's self-serving fixation on Trump 24/7. Trump could just as easily have sought the Democrat nomination and caused the same level of disruption there but the media would likely have marginalized him in favour of their choice, Hillary Clinton. The media's candidate is Hillary Clinton and focusing on Trump 24/7 took all the pressure and focus of Clinton and allowed her to secure the Democrat nomination while they pimped for Trump. Now that both nominations are settled, they will pimp against Trump, for Clinton, from now until November - it's already started.

So I totally reject the suggestion that the Republican establishment fostered or supported the birther movement, the Kenyan stuff, the death panels, etc. They did no such thing.

But they are stuck with a candidate that is not representative of the Republican Party or the average Republican member or voter. They do need to do something about ensuring that never happens again.
 
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Fair enough, although I strongly disagree. In my view, the Republican establishment on a regular basis called out those who claimed to be Republicans or conservatives or Tea Party types who made outlandish claims about Obama or about any number of issues. The Republican Party leadership has been inundated with fringe fools who glommed onto them for lack of any other vehicle to spew their nonsense. It is why the Republican Party leadership took the 2014 mid-term nomination process into their own hands and actively promoted candidates who could win contentious elections instead of the Tea Party types and others who made winnable elections contentious and cost the party the Senate in both 2010 and 2012. As a result, the Republicans took the Senate in 2014. The Republican Party establishment did not foster or promote the idiocy - they actively fought against it.

But the GOP establishment was no match for a media that latched onto Trump and made him the entire primary story for the past year. There was zero the party could do, short of somehow disqualifying him from running for the nomination, that would have overcome the media's self-serving fixation on Trump 24/7. Trump could just as easily sought the Democrat nomination and caused the same level of disruption there but the media would likely have marginalized him in favour of their choice, Hillary Clinton. The media's candidate is Hillary Clinton and focusing on Trump 24/7 took all the pressure and focus of Clinton and allowed her to secure the Democrat nomination while they pimped for Trump. Now that both nominations are settled, they will pimp against Trump, for Clinton, from now until November - it's already started.

So I totally reject the suggestion that the Republican establishment the birther movement, the Kenyan stuff, the death panels, etc. They did no such thing.

But they are stuck with a candidate that is not representative of the Republican Party or the average Republican member or voter. They do need to do something about ensuring that never happens again.

The GOP sat quietly while Trump ran his Birther show and that is what gave Trump the idea that he could get away with his Presidential run. They brought it on themselves for sure. If they had called Trump out on his nonsense from the start it would have been different.

Let’s get this straight. We spent the first several years of Barack Obama’s presidency obsessing about whether he was born in Kenya. Why? Because a large segment of the GOP electorate — spurred on by Donald Trump — splenetically asserted that Obama’s supposed foreign birth barred him from the White House. Merely to quell the rising political distemper, Obama was forced to release a long form birth certificate from Hawaii.
Dog Whistles and Hypocrisy: The GOP's Selective Birthers
When Governor Romney wasn't accusing the president of the United States of being "extraordinarily foreign," he was providing aid and comfort to conservative fabulists claiming they could prove it. After all, Mitt Romney didn't just refuse to repudiate his Obama birth certificate fraud Donald Trump. Truth be damned, Romney suggested, instead arguing that cobbling together a majority—any majority—was what his candidacy was all about:
"You know, I don't agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they don't all agree with everything I believe in," Romney said. "But I need to get 50.1% or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people."
Among those "good people" were Romney's five sons, the same ones Mitt boasted in 2007 said "showing support for our nation" by "helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president." The Five Brothers also regurgitated the Birther lies vomited forth by the likes of Limbaugh, Trump and Romney campaign traveling companion Jerome Corsi. When Tagg Romney wasn't joking about "taking a swing" at President Obama, his brother Matt got laughs from New Hampshire Republicans when he brushed off requests for his father's secret tax returns this way:
"I heard someone suggest the other day that as soon as President Obama releases his grades and birth certificate ...then maybe he'll do it."
Republicans were silent as Romney played the Birther card
 
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okay you surprise me here CJ because I thought you were a Trump supporter, my apologies


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if you think liberals support this clown then you disappoint me

I've never been a Trump supporter - he's an utter disgrace. I don't believe that Trump being a liberal/Democrat implies that liberal/Democrats are supporters of Trump any more than conservative/Republicans are supporters of Trump even though he'll be their party's nominee. I simply note that Trump holds many of the same policy positions that liberal/Democrats have held and promoted so it doesn't surprise me at all that Trump would agree with President Obama on exceptionalism because Trump agrees with President Obama on other policy positions, or at least he has a long history of doing so before he conned his way into leadership of the conservative movement.
 
I think it is because of the same people who only listen to the far right news sources, pass emails back and forth over and over, listen to right wing radio etc for the last 8 years believe Trump is the cure for the ails with this country and are voting for him. Think about it, everything Trump does or says, which often seems nonsensical has spent it time echoing around the noise machine. Trumps even a birther. The judge is a Mexican and we know, from the machine "them" people are taking over our country. We got to take America back and make America Great again, you know for us great white americans. This has been going on for at least 8 years. The Donald took notes appearlenty and has turned in to the human version of the right wing noise machine. I cant believe it has gotten him this far.
The GOP sat quietly while Trump ran his Birther show and that is what gave Trump the idea that he could get away with his Presidential run. They brought it on themselves for sure. If they had called Trump out on his nonsense from the start it would have been different.
 
The GOP sat quietly while Trump ran his Birther show and that is what gave Trump the idea that he could get away with his Presidential run. They brought it on themselves for sure. If they had called Trump out on his nonsense from the start it would have been different.

Dog Whistles and Hypocrisy: The GOP's Selective Birthers

Republicans were silent as Romney played the Birther card

Nonsense.

Why would the Republican Party or establishment comment on Donald Trump's birther nonsense when Trump wasn't a member of the party, wasn't an official in the party, wasn't a spokesperson for the party, nor was he an elected office holder in the party? They had no need to own and then defend/oppose his comments than they would any other American given such a platform by the media.

The Republican Party has no more need to address such outside issues than the Democrat Party has to address every idiocy voiced by the BLM clowns and racists or any other fringe nonsense.
 
Nonsense.

Why would the Republican Party or establishment comment on Donald Trump's birther nonsense when Trump wasn't a member of the party, wasn't an official in the party, wasn't a spokesperson for the party, nor was he an elected office holder in the party? They had no need to own and then defend/oppose his comments than they would any other American given such a platform by the media.

The Republican Party has no more need to address such outside issues than the Democrat Party has to address every idiocy voiced by the BLM clowns and racists or any other fringe nonsense.

Maybe they should have spoke up because they were Americans and Trump was assaulting a sitting American President as illegitimate? Romney used the "birther logic" during his campaign too. The results are obvious, Trump is their nominee.
 
Maybe they should have spoke up because they were Americans and Trump was assaulting a sitting American President as illegitimate? Romney used the "birther logic" during his campaign too. The results are obvious, Trump is their nominee.

I don't see Debbie Wasserman-Schultz rushing to a podium to condemn every ignorant and racist comment that comes out of the mouths of BLM leadership. When Michael Brown's father exhorted the crowd in Missouri to "burn this sucker down", I didn't see DWS or President Obama rush to a podium to condemn those remarks as if he was a spokesperson for the Democrat Party. And yet you think it's the responsibility of the RNC to make a point of speaking out against anything that the left finds offensive.

Hypocrisy is the liberal's lifeblood so I'm not surprised by your take at all. Don't expect me, however, to play that game with you.
 
I don't see Debbie Wasserman-Schultz rushing to a podium to condemn every ignorant and racist comment that comes out of the mouths of BLM leadership. When Michael Brown's father exhorted the crowd in Missouri to "burn this sucker down", I didn't see DWS or President Obama rush to a podium to condemn those remarks as if he was a spokesperson for the Democrat Party. And yet you think it's the responsibility of the RNC to make a point of speaking out against anything that the left finds offensive.

Hypocrisy is the liberal's lifeblood so I'm not surprised by your take at all. Don't expect me, however, to play that game with you.

How you can think that a movement that protests violence against blacks is in any way analogous to a movement that contests the legitimacy of a sitting President is beyond me.
The birthers were committing treason and the GOP stood by and let it happen, Trump is their reward,
 
How you can think that a movement that protests violence against blacks is in any way analogous to a movement that contests the legitimacy of a sitting President is beyond me.
The birthers were committing treason and the GOP stood by and let it happen, Trump is their reward,

Preibus did speak out against the birther nonsense - he ridiculed it and clearly claimed he believed the President was born in the US and claimed, rightly, that the media liked reporting on it as a distraction from the real issues and shortcomings of the Obama administration.

You don't like the analogy to BLM because there isn't a single Democrat, and certainly not Debbie Wasserman-Schultz or President Obama or Hillary Clinton, who's said a word against their racism and violence. You call the birthers treasonous, which is cute but you don't talk at all about BLM who are, in many cases, criminal activists.

Bringing it more up to date, I haven't heard or seen DWS, President Obama, or Hillary Clinton rush to a podium to speak out against the violent demonstrations coordinated by Democrats to disrupt the legal and First Amendment protected rallies held by Donald Trump and his supporters.

You, and most liberals, are nothing but hypocrites because you don't speak out against right and wrong but only about right and left.
 
I've never been a Trump supporter - he's an utter disgrace. I don't believe that Trump being a liberal/Democrat implies that liberal/Democrats are supporters of Trump any more than conservative/Republicans are supporters of Trump even though he'll be their party's nominee. I simply note that Trump holds many of the same policy positions that liberal/Democrats have held and promoted so it doesn't surprise me at all that Trump would agree with President Obama on exceptionalism because Trump agrees with President Obama on other policy positions, or at least he has a long history of doing so before he conned his way into leadership of the conservative movement.

well fair enough

you are usually far more logical than to believe Trump is left

Trump is whatever benefits Trump in the moment

period
 
well fair enough

you are usually far more logical than to believe Trump is left

Trump is whatever benefits Trump in the moment

period

Absolutely, Trump is all about Trump - that goes without saying.

But Trump has held many positions in the past and currently that are more leftist than conservative. His positions on trade and isolationism are two primary ones currently but he has had others, such as on abortion, gay marriage, eminent domain, etc. that are far more to the left than those traditionally held by conservatives. It's hard to think of even a few, if any, traditionally conservative views the man has held in the past. The only claim to being conservative that he has is that he's a businessman, but we all know many liberal Democrats are also in private business - making a living in business is not an ideology.
 
Absolutely, Trump is all about Trump - that goes without saying.

But Trump has held many positions in the past and currently that are more leftist than conservative. His positions on trade and isolationism are two primary ones currently but he has had others, such as on abortion, gay marriage, eminent domain, etc. that are far more to the left than those traditionally held by conservatives. It's hard to think of even a few, if any, traditionally conservative views the man has held in the past. The only claim to being conservative that he has is that he's a businessman, but we all know many liberal Democrats are also in private business - making a living in business is not an ideology.

in general I would agree with this yes
 
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