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So.... Donald Trump doesn't believe in American Exceptionalism

I simply re=phrased what she had already said. Compare what she said to what I said and you'll see that they are almost exactly the same idea being communicated. In fact, I gave the 1st Lady more grace than she gave herself...

No wonder you were incredulous someone was horning in on your domain. Only faithful_servant can pretend to speak for the First Lady!

Just seems a tad hypocritical to me, that's all.
 
When Michelle Obama said she was proud of the country for the first time in her life she got lambasted. But then Trump comes along and yells "Make America Great Again", which is saying "America is NOT Great", people put it on their hats and t-shirts.

Not a good comparison at all. The comparison is proper between Trump and Barrack but not Michelle. What she said is entirely different on many levels. You can be a smallish country, of no real global import, and be proud of your country without thinking it's exceptional. You don't have to like everything about it. To say that she was only proud of her country because Barrack was elected was stupid. Doubly stupid because (if we are going with the reason she said it was due to racial issues) racial issues and tensions are higher now then they have been in a long time.
 
Not a good comparison at all. The comparison is proper between Trump and Barrack but not Michelle. What she said is entirely different on many levels. You can be a smallish country, of no real global import, and be proud of your country without thinking it's exceptional. You don't have to like everything about it. To say that she was only proud of her country because Barrack was elected was stupid. Doubly stupid because (if we are going with the reason she said it was due to racial issues) racial issues and tensions are higher now then they have been in a long time.

I tend to be of the mind that any country can be considered exceptional just for surviving.
 
America used to be great. It has slipped quite a lot. It would be nice to reverse the trend. Government, however, isn't the answer. It never is.

America was great for two reasons, WWI and WWII. During WWI you saw all the wealth of Europe transfer over to the U.S. to support their war efforts. They suffered extreme casualties (thereby effecting your labor pool) and damage to their countries' infrastructures. The U.S. entered pretty much at the end and our country was untouched.

In WWII you saw destruction of infrastructure on a much larger scale and you also had generations of working aged males wiped out. The U.S. joined in later again (not as late as WWI), had comparatively few casualties, and again had our infrastructure untouched.

So the rest of the modern world was bombed to **** and had large numbers of their population wiped out leaving us the only game in town. We could literally run our country under about any ideology and we would have been dominant. Now the other modern nations have had kids and have rebuilt so their is competition. The only way to get back to the same level of dominance is to figure out how to pull off another World War and have our country not get touched again and keep our casualties low.
 
You said you think Trump is a liberal because he holds a similar view to Obama, yet Trump obviously doesn't. When I queried you on how you know what Trump's views are, since they change from day to day, sometimes twice in the same day, you said that's what liberals do.

Fair enough; maybe you can show me where Obama changed his view on American exceptionalism.

Perhaps you would be better served if you simply reread what I posted. I didn't say what you claimed I said, nor did I ever say that Obama changed his view on exceptionalism.
 
I tend to be of the mind that any country can be considered exceptional just for surviving.

All countries die and there have been plenty of exceptional countries and empires that no longer exist. There are also very mediocre countries clinging to existence even today.

Ultimately, everything ends at some point. The U.S. has only been around for the blink of an eye, when compared to some other exceptional nations in the past.
 
Perhaps you would be better served if you simply reread what I posted. I didn't say what you claimed I said, nor did I ever say that Obama changed his view on exceptionalism.

Don't sweat it.
 
All countries die and there have been plenty of exceptional countries and empires that no longer exist. There are also very mediocre countries clinging to existence even today.

Ultimately, everything ends at some point. The U.S. has only been around for the blink of an eye, when compared to some other exceptional nations in the past.

Exceptional nations of the past are no longer exceptional.
 
???? Are you the 1st Lady posting under a pseudonym???
Haha - understood, but no I'm very much the person in post #15 here in this very thread:

DP

I came of age in post war America during the Warren Court, and remember the greatness we were along with the liberties & freedoms we enjoyed! I make these complaints because of my love of the country and its Constitution, and want us to attain the greatness of which we're capable.

And as you may have guessed, I was a Bernie supporter and found his speech last night to be motivational and exhilarating! Virtually all I listed earlier, was touched upon by him in that speech. So I'm not the only one of this opinion.
 
Actually, one could argue that Republican voters, in the majority, did not install Trump. Until many dropped out, Trump wasn't receiving anywhere near a majority of primary votes and in many of those races, such as in New Hampshire, Independents and Democrats were allowed to vote in the primary of their choice and considering the mischief Democrats are famous for, it's not surprising that they'd favour Trump as the most unlikely to beat their candidate of choice.

Never ceases to amaze me that American political parties allow people who have never been their supporters or have never supported their policy positions to seek the nomination for leadership of their party and let non-party members be part of that selection process. On that basis, Republicans are getting what they deserve.
I would argue that with 17 candidates, it's extremely difficult to win a majority, but when the candidates dropped-out Mr. Trump did indeed pull majority votes.

You do make some some technical points (ex: Dem strategic cross-over), but I believe these points are so small in nature as to be relatively inconsequential.

Now what I will say to slightly ameliorate my own position, is: The GOP establishment and politicos fostered an environment where subsets of their voters were encouraged, or at least accepted, to believe all sorts of outlandish claims. Whether Birther, or death panels, or Kenyan citizenship, or etc., - the GOP tacitly (or wholeheartedly) agreed and embraced these aberrant trains of thought, all for political expediency.

Who in the GOP was calling-out Trump, when he claimed Obama wasn't born here and was lacking a birth certificate? We know that answer.

So by laying that foundation, I see the GOP laying the seeds for the revolution that just occurred. Without those years of inadvertent preparation, this would not have happened (at least not now, in this manner). It's not a qualitative jump at all from: 'Presidents lacking citizenship' --> to 'American judges with immigrant heritage being unqualified to preside'. This is really scary stuff. I hope we don't disallow judges with Polish or Italian ancestry, 'cuz then I and my family are off limits to the bench it would seem!
 
So did it bother when Obama said it before or are you supporting Trump here? Choose your poisoned pill.
Obama never said it. I thought it was stupid when liberals made a deal out of it, and I think it's dumb for conservatives, too.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
I've been on record from the start saying that Donald Trump is a liberal/Democrat so the fact he holds a similar view to President Obama comes as no surprise to me. But don't try to tell the fools who support Trump and his hijacking of the Republican Party - they will never get it.

okay you surprise me here CJ because I thought you were a Trump supporter, my apologies


added
if you think liberals support this clown then you disappoint me
 
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Obama never said it. I thought it was stupid when liberals made a deal out of it, and I think it's dumb for conservatives, too.

Que? There was literally two videos of them saying basically the same thing. So I'm saying, did you make a big deal about it when Obama said it or do you support Trump here?
 
I would argue that with 17 candidates, it's extremely difficult to win a majority, but when the candidates dropped-out Mr. Trump did indeed pull majority votes.

You do make some some technical points (ex: Dem strategic cross-over), but I believe these points are so small in nature as to be relatively inconsequential.

I think you're downplaying the reality of the matter. First of all, you're correct that with 17 candidates it's difficult to win a majority but it's not difficult to get a simple majority if you're the loudest out of the bunch of 17. Secondly, as far as cross-over, there's more to it than that because Cruz did better in closed primary states while Trump did better in open primaries. That means something.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rting-to-change-toward-more-closed-primaries/

Now what I will say to slightly ameliorate my own position, is: The GOP establishment and politicos fostered an environment where subsets of their voters were encouraged, or at least accepted, to believe all sorts of outlandish claims. Whether Birther, or death panels, or Kenyan citizenship, or etc., - the GOP tacitly (or wholeheartedly) agreed and embraced these aberrant trains of thought, all for political expediency.

Who in the GOP was calling-out Trump, when he claimed Obama wasn't born here and was lacking a birth certificate? We know that answer.

So by laying that foundation, I see the GOP laying the seeds for the revolution that just occurred. Without those years of inadvertent preparation, this would not have happened (at least not now, in this manner). It's not a qualitative jump at all from: 'Presidents lacking citizenship' --> to 'American judges with immigrant heritage being unqualified to preside'. This is really scary stuff. I hope we don't disallow judges with Polish or Italian ancestry, 'cuz then I and my family are off limits to the bench it would seem!

This is totally off base and entirely flawed in it's premise and reason. First of all, the birther thing came from Clinton. Secondly what was encouraged and what answer to we supposedly know? I'm pretty sure you're implying no one but that's fare from the truth.



To me, this seems like a patchwork of unsubstantiated media storylines and poor reasoning to substantiate confirmation bias.
 
Que? There was literally two videos of them saying basically the same thing. So I'm saying, did you make a big deal about it when Obama said it or do you support Trump here?
As I recall, it was leftists, not Obama himself, who made a big deal about the blouse. It was dumb then and it's dumb now.

I don't support Trump at all. I'm a Conservative.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
As I recall, it was leftists, not Obama himself, who made a big deal about the blouse. It was dumb then and it's dumb now.

I don't support Trump at all. I'm a Conservative.

Dude...what in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about the comments that both Obama and Trump made about American Exceptionalism.
 
Dude...what in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about the comments that both Obama and Trump made about American Exceptionalism.
Dangit, Tapatalk.

Sorry, got my wires crossed.

Confirm: both Trump and Obama don't understand American Exceptionalism. But the same people who got upset at the latter, I'm being, will give a pass to the former.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
Dangit, Tapatalk.

Sorry, got my wires crossed.

Confirm: both Trump and Obama don't understand American Exceptionalism. But the same people who got upset at the latter, I'm being, will give a pass to the former.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

I know what you mean. Taptalk sucks sometimes.
 
Dangit, Tapatalk.

Sorry, got my wires crossed.

Confirm: both Trump and Obama don't understand American Exceptionalism. But the same people who got upset at the latter, I'm being, will give a pass to the former.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Lol...I was so confused.
 
America was great for two reasons, WWI and WWII. During WWI you saw all the wealth of Europe transfer over to the U.S. to support their war efforts. They suffered extreme casualties (thereby effecting your labor pool) and damage to their countries' infrastructures. The U.S. entered pretty much at the end and our country was untouched.

In WWII you saw destruction of infrastructure on a much larger scale and you also had generations of working aged males wiped out. The U.S. joined in later again (not as late as WWI), had comparatively few casualties, and again had our infrastructure untouched.

So the rest of the modern world was bombed to **** and had large numbers of their population wiped out leaving us the only game in town. We could literally run our country under about any ideology and we would have been dominant. Now the other modern nations have had kids and have rebuilt so their is competition. The only way to get back to the same level of dominance is to figure out how to pull off another World War and have our country not get touched again and keep our casualties low.

I disagree but that is beside the point. The point is that our society has been in decline since the 1950's. It is societal thing, not a governmental thing. It gets to character and attitudes. The government can't fix that. Perhaps we need to experience another depression and serious war to shake us up. I hope not.
 
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