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So.... Donald Trump doesn't believe in American Exceptionalism

dimensionallava

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funny thing about the term "american exceptionalism" is that it was invented by Stalin
 

mak2

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Don't worry about what Trump says, he will change his mind in a few minutes.
 

Captain Adverse

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American exceptionalism is an outgrowth of nationalism, the claim that our society is unique and better than any other. This because of our ideology of "liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, democracy and laissez-faire for business."

Yet many nations throughout history have cloaked themselves in "exceptionalism." Athens and Sparta; Rome; China; Japan; Great Britain; Germany. etc.. It's nice to feel ones country and culture are superior to all others. Any nation at the peak of world power can claim this is true...until it no longer is.

It's what we've been teaching millennials which makes them think with a half-assed education and the personal privilege of merely being American, that every single one of them can become either rich or President with no real effort at all.

I don't believe in it either. :shrug:
 

Van Basten

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America is an exceptional civilization, without question, but it's hardly the only one. There are others, extant and extinct, that are also exceptional.

Anyway, Trump says whatever, he could be singing an entirely different tune in a month.
funny thing about the term "american exceptionalism" is that it was invented by Stalin

Not exactly. The phrase was, the ideas behind it precede Stalin's reign by decades. It just wasn't known by a real name that stuck.

The first thinker to hint at the concept was Alexis de Tocqueville, a frenchman.
 
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Skeptic Bob

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When Michelle Obama said she was proud of the country for the first time in her life she got lambasted. But then Trump comes along and yells "Make America Great Again", which is saying "America is NOT Great", people put it on their hats and t-shirts.
 

fmw

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When Michelle Obama said she was proud of the country for the first time in her life she got lambasted. But then Trump comes along and yells "Make America Great Again", which is saying "America is NOT Great", people put it on their hats and t-shirts.

America used to be great. It has slipped quite a lot. It would be nice to reverse the trend. Government, however, isn't the answer. It never is.
 

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"Because you're insulting the world!"



Hey, remember when conservatives got upset by this?


Yeah....

I've been on record from the start saying that Donald Trump is a liberal/Democrat so the fact he holds a similar view to President Obama comes as no surprise to me. But don't try to tell the fools who support Trump and his hijacking of the Republican Party - they will never get it.
 

mak2

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They are indeed true believers.
I've been on record from the start saying that Donald Trump is a liberal/Democrat so the fact he holds a similar view to President Obama comes as no surprise to me. But don't try to tell the fools who support Trump and his hijacking of the Republican Party - they will never get it.
 

Chomsky

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And to add -

In relation to her peer nations, America is indeed exceptional!

We have:

- An exceptional number of citizens lacking access to quality affordable healthcare.

- An exceptional number of incarcerated.

- An exceptional level of violence.

- An exceptional number of children living in poverty.

- An exceptional number of firearm injuries and deaths.

- An exceptional number of H.S. drop-outs.

- An exceptional level of income disparity.

- An exceptional amount of money influencing our politics.

- An exceptionally expensive and financially burdening tertiary education system.

And I'm sure there's more, than these which I quickly jotted down here off-the-top-of-my-head.

So don't tell me we aren't exceptional! :doh
 

Mr Person

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'American Exceptionalism' is such a silly term that smells like it goes well beyond pride in one's countrymen. Choosing to be born in a particular country (see what I did there?) does not make anyone automatically superior in any personal sense.



It also overlooks a good part of why America was so strong economically in the last 100-140 years. At first, it was use of effectively stolen land, massive abuse of laborers by the copper/lumber etc barons, then there were the barons of the Gilded Age. (I'm omitting the start of the country, during which we used slave labor in half the states...)

Then there was our position after WWII: The only significant power who went into the two wars and came out with an intact, nay expanded infrastructure; also, without civilian casualties and with relatively fewer men lost than the countries over whom whose soil the wars were fought.(Similarly, unlike China or the USSR, we did 't self-destruct with totalitarian regimes running genuinely socialist economies.).




If you have a good work ethic, go ahead and take pride in it. But the "American exceptionalism" business is simply overzealous nationalism. (And no doubt, at least one person will tell me that these reflections mean I "hate America" or some such...).





And let's look at us today. The rich are richer than ever; contrary to the political beliefs of some on economics, wealth hasn't trickled down. It's been steadily trickling up. We have the most expensive health care, which does worse than most other country's health care systems. We're facing a massive demographic crunch, etc etc etc. See Chomsky's post above.

We're still a world leader, but we're far from the kind of picture-perfect appearance "American Exceptionalism" invokes.
 
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Chomsky

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I've been on record from the start saying that Donald Trump is a liberal/Democrat so the fact he holds a similar view to President Obama comes as no surprise to me. But don't try to tell the fools who support Trump and his hijacking of the Republican Party - they will never get it.
Since it is the Republican voters installing Trump, perhaps the voting members were getting tired of the leaders & donors hijacking the party?

This looks more like a revolution than swindle (to me), though perhaps there's denial from some circles?
 

Chomsky

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And to add one more thing (hopefully without monopolizing the thread):

Less I come across as one dimensional due to my posted upthread complaints, I must state America is truly exceptional in at least one other area:

America is unique in that it was born of an Idea! Actually, a high reaching overachieving ideology! And this idea was embodied and codified in the Constitution, which is very possibly the most amazing document and frame of governance every created!

We were not a former nation, a failed monarchy, a culture, a geographical locale, nor a theocracy! But instead, we were spawned of an idea! And we invite all that share in our idea to come join us!

And that my friends, is exceptional!

And it is my love for the Constitution and her ideas contained within, that I criticize what I see as monied interests and and abrogate governance destroying the greatness we are and should be!
 

CanadaJohn

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Since it is the Republican voters installing Trump, perhaps the voting members were getting tired of the leaders & donors hijacking the party?

This looks more like a revolution than swindle (to me), though perhaps there's denial from some circles?

Actually, one could argue that Republican voters, in the majority, did not install Trump. Until many dropped out, Trump wasn't receiving anywhere near a majority of primary votes and in many of those races, such as in New Hampshire, Independents and Democrats were allowed to vote in the primary of their choice and considering the mischief Democrats are famous for, it's not surprising that they'd favour Trump as the most unlikely to beat their candidate of choice.

Never ceases to amaze me that American political parties allow people who have never been their supporters or have never supported their policy positions to seek the nomination for leadership of their party and let non-party members be part of that selection process. On that basis, Republicans are getting what they deserve.
 

BitterPill

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I've been on record from the start saying that Donald Trump is a liberal/Democrat so the fact he holds a similar view to President Obama comes as no surprise to me. But don't try to tell the fools who support Trump and his hijacking of the Republican Party - they will never get it.

I'm curious how you can divine Trump's views. As I see it, Trump's views change from day to day, sometimes twice in the same day.
 

CanadaJohn

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I'm curious how you can divine Trump's views. As I see it, Trump's views change from day to day, sometimes twice in the same day.

That's what liberals do when they're trying to con you into thinking they're something they're not. See how easy that was!!
 

BitterPill

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That's what liberals do when they're trying to con you into thinking they're something they're not. See how easy that was!!

They try to hold Obama's views?

Whatever... meanwhile: You obviously have little contact with liberals, not that that's a bad thing.
 

faithful_servant

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When Michelle Obama said she was proud of the country for the first time in her life she got lambasted. But then Trump comes along and yells "Make America Great Again", which is saying "America is NOT Great", people put it on their hats and t-shirts.

That's because what Trump was talking about was the last couple of decades, what the 1st Lady was talking about was her ingrained, probably near life-long negative opinion of this country.
 

faithful_servant

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And to add -

In relation to her peer nations, America is indeed exceptional!

We have:

- An exceptional number of citizens lacking access to quality affordable healthcare.

- An exceptional number of incarcerated.

- An exceptional level of violence.

- An exceptional number of children living in poverty.

- An exceptional number of firearm injuries and deaths.

- An exceptional number of H.S. drop-outs.

- An exceptional level of income disparity.

- An exceptional amount of money influencing our politics.

- An exceptionally expensive and financially burdening tertiary education system.

And I'm sure there's more, than these which I quickly jotted down here off-the-top-of-my-head.

So don't tell me we aren't exceptional! :doh

???? Are you the 1st Lady posting under a pseudonym???
 

BitterPill

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Unfortunately, I've had more than a lifetime's worth of contact with liberals which makes them all too transparent to me.

You said you think Trump is a liberal because he holds a similar view to Obama, yet Trump obviously doesn't. When I queried you on how you know what Trump's views are, since they change from day to day, sometimes twice in the same day, you said that's what liberals do.

Fair enough; maybe you can show me where Obama changed his view on American exceptionalism.
 

faithful_servant

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Actually, you are the one who pretends to be speaking for our First Lady.

I simply re=phrased what she had already said. Compare what she said to what I said and you'll see that they are almost exactly the same idea being communicated. In fact, I gave the 1st Lady more grace than she gave herself...
 
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