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So 50+ conservative males think they know better than doctors on reproduction.

I invite you to read up in the Abortion forum, where you will learn that the unborn are actually guilty of sexual assault. I am not making this up.

That's why I try to stay out of there as much as possible. I hadn't heard that one, but one person told me one time that it's perfectly okay to abort a full-term Down Syndrome child because they literally aren't human. :shock:
 
That's why I try to stay out of there as much as possible. I hadn't heard that one, but one person told me one time that it's perfectly okay to abort a full-term Down Syndrome child because they literally aren't human. :shock:

There are all sorts of surprising ideas in that forum. The invading marauder/rapist is a motifl, and abortion is thus seen as self-defense. LOL, I have recently been called a prejudiced liar for using the term "human being." Apparently, you're allowed to say "human," but not "human being" even though an unborn human is in existence and therefore is in a state of being.

My current favorite claim, though, is the Orwellian "Equality=prejudice." Not sure there is a topper for this one.
 
A medical procedure. Don't let those Jesus freak morons tell you what to think. Oh by the way. Just think about the fact you will not have to pay welfare. Don't you conservatives hate welfare?

I don't know of anyone who claims the right “to tell ALL the women in the US when they can have a baby, how many babies they should have and by whom these babies will be fathered”.

What you are writing about, of course, is the assertion that a woman who already has a baby should have the right to have that baby killed, up to a certain arbitrary point, if that baby's existence becomes inconvenient to her.

I find it very odd that this is widely seen as a religious issue, and that it is only religious organizations which take up the cause of defending unborn children. Outside of this one issue, I think nearly everyone agrees that the single most vital and essential of all human rights is the right not to be intentionally killed, unless there are very drastic and extreme circumstances to justify that killing.
I see no rational reason at all why abortion should be treated as any kind of exception to the constraints that any civilized society otherwise places on homicide in general. A human being is a human being, no matter the size, age, or stage of development, and all human beings are certainly entitled to the same basic right to exist.
 
There are all sorts of surprising ideas in that forum. The invading marauder/rapist is a motifl, and abortion is thus seen as self-defense. LOL, I have recently been called a prejudiced liar for using the term "human being." Apparently, you're allowed to say "human," but not "human being" even though an unborn human is in existence and therefore is in a state of being.

Yeah, I've never understood the "Yeah, it's human, but it's not a human being." *eyeroll* Anything to justify killing unborn children.

My current favorite claim, though, is the Orwellian "Equality=prejudice." Not sure there is a topper for this one.

Say wha?
 
Yeah, I've never understood the "Yeah, it's human, but it's not a human being." *eyeroll* Anything to justify killing unborn children.

Say wha?

That would be FutureIncoming. I'm not sure I can even attempt to replicate his "argument," and I don't particularly want to quote him so that he comes and does that schtick in this thread. But long story short, yes, nota and I take a strong stance against abortion because we favor human equality, and we've been told quite literally that supporting human equality is prejudicial.

We've also got rape babies are "human garbage" and all sorts of other fun characters. It's fantastic!
 

Therefore, to value all humans equally is a STUPIDLY PREJUDICED thing to do. We definitely need to value all PERSONS equally, regardless of species, regardless of biology, regardless of physical nature --regardless of ANY nature. I recommend you read #328 in this Message Thread, paying attention to the "R-strategy" stuff. THAT'S why it is stupid to equate mere animals with persons!

That makes no sense.
 
I don't know of anyone who claims the right “to tell ALL the women in the US when they can have a baby, how many babies they should have and by whom these babies will be fathered”.

What you are writing about, of course, is the assertion that a woman who already has a baby should have the right to have that baby killed, up to a certain arbitrary point, if that baby's existence becomes inconvenient to her.

I find it very odd that this is widely seen as a religious issue, and that it is only religious organizations which take up the cause of defending unborn children. Outside of this one issue, I think nearly everyone agrees that the single most vital and essential of all human rights is the right not to be intentionally killed, unless there are very drastic and extreme circumstances to justify that killing.
I see no rational reason at all why abortion should be treated as any kind of exception to the constraints that any civilized society otherwise places on homicide in general. A human being is a human being, no matter the size, age, or stage of development, and all human beings are certainly entitled to the same basic right to exist.

Whatever it takes to keep the population down and just think about it. Conservatives will not have to B**** about giving that babies mother welfare.
 
I don't know of anyone who claims the right “to tell ALL the women in the US when they can have a baby, how many babies they should have and by whom these babies will be fathered”.

What you are writing about, of course, is the assertion that a woman who already has a baby should have the right to have that baby killed, up to a certain arbitrary point, if that baby's existence becomes inconvenient to her.

I find it very odd that this is widely seen as a religious issue, and that it is only religious organizations which take up the cause of defending unborn children. Outside of this one issue, I think nearly everyone agrees that the single most vital and essential of all human rights is the right not to be intentionally killed, unless there are very drastic and extreme circumstances to justify that killing.
I see no rational reason at all why abortion should be treated as any kind of exception to the constraints that any civilized society otherwise places on homicide in general. A human being is a human being, no matter the size, age, or stage of development, and all human beings are certainly entitled to the same basic right to exist.

Religous fanatics are at the forefront of anti abortion views in this country. Are you saying otherwise?
 
Why do your posts always have such closed-minded hatred for people that don't agree with you and/or are on the right side of the aisle? That hatred is going to burn you up.

The fact right wingers think they have the right to trump a doctor is outragous. The fact consevatives think they can tell gay couples they can not get marries is outragous. The fact they think we should be living in the 1950's is just plain backward thinking and regressive. Consevatives desrve everything they get and more.
 
The fact right wingers think they have the right to trump a doctor is outragous. The fact consevatives think they can tell gay couples they can not get marries is outragous. The fact they think we should be living in the 1950's is just plain backward thinking and regressive. Consevatives desrve everything they get and more.

Don't you mean "stupid rednecks and Jesus freaks"? I think you are way over generalizing. Conservatives and/or Republicans don't all believe in the same finite list of things. The world is too diverse a place for people to just believe in a liberal list or conservative list of things. Some Republicans are pro-choice and don't care what other consenting adults do with their lives. But instead you assume a conservative and/or Republican believes in a set list of ideas, when in reality it may depend on the issue what they believe in.
 
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When you guys stop with social issues we will. Obama and his gang have been 24/7 social issues/distractions since his reelection.

I have to say my friend. Pot is now legal in 2 states and decriminalized in 3 others. Gay marriage just won a big victory in the SCOTUS so three of the most populated states now have gay marriage. Abortion is still the law of the land so it looks like us liberals are winning on social issues in spite of the right wing rage. This petty anti abortion attemts in rural,unpopulated bible belt states is just retalitastion that is just going to get throen out of the SCOTUS also. It looks like liberal victory to me.
 
I don't know of anyone who claims the right “to tell ALL the women in the US when they can have a baby, how many babies they should have and by whom these babies will be fathered”.

What you are writing about, of course, is the assertion that a woman who already has a baby should have the right to have that baby killed, up to a certain arbitrary point, if that baby's existence becomes inconvenient to her.

I find it very odd that this is widely seen as a religious issue, and that it is only religious organizations which take up the cause of defending unborn children. Outside of this one issue, I think nearly everyone agrees that the single most vital and essential of all human rights is the right not to be intentionally killed, unless there are very drastic and extreme circumstances to justify that killing.
I see no rational reason at all why abortion should be treated as any kind of exception to the constraints that any civilized society otherwise places on homicide in general. A human being is a human being, no matter the size, age, or stage of development, and all human beings are certainly entitled to the same basic right to exist.

Its simple really... who decides that basic right? If I say do not want to exist anymore... for whatever reason.. pain, I am on life support etc... is it YOUR purview to tell me... "sorry but you have to continue to have a feeding tube"? If I choose in the hospital to refuse water.. is it your right or the governments to forcibly place a IV in my body?

What if its my spouse or child who are incapable of making their wishes known? Does that mean that you and the government are the best ones to decide what's in their best interest?

What if that child is INSIDE MY WIFE, whose life is affected also... where they may be a risk to her existence? Is it your view that the government and you should decide for US?


This is widely seen as a religious issue because at the heart of the matter is whose body and wishes take precedence. Religions that see the mother as much more than an incubator for children, tend to be pro choice. Religions that tend to view the mother as a lesser being, tend to be pro life. Case in point.. those religions often state that abortion should not be allowed even if the mothers life is in danger. Now.. if one is really arguing that its about LIFE.. then the mothers life should be just as important as the child's should it not? But that's not their view.
 
Don't you mean "stupid rednecks and Jesus freaks"? I think you are way over generalizing. Conservatives and/or Republicans don't all believe in the same finite list of things. The world is too diverse a place for people to just believe in a liberal list or conservative list of things. Some Republicans are pro-choice and don't care what other consenting adults do with their lives. But instead you assume a conservative and/or Republican believes in a set list of ideas, when in reality it may depend on the issue what they believe in.

You are right but the far right has taken over the GOP and more moderate voices have been screamed over by the far right. This my friend is dangerous. That is why you see the spit in my threads. I respect moderate conservatives like my father but can't stand anti freedom social conservatives who think they know better than us in how to live our lives.
 
I have to say my friend. Pot is now legal in 2 states and decriminalized in 3 others. Gay marriage just won a big victory in the SCOTUS so three of the most populated states now have gay marriage. Abortion is still the law of the land so it looks like us liberals are winning on social issues in spite of the right wing rage. This petty anti abortion attemts in rural,unpopulated bible belt states is just retalitastion that is just going to get throen out of the SCOTUS also. It looks like liberal victory to me.

Just to point out.. at least 2 conservatives and I think a couple of libertarians agree with pro choice view. Because its the true conservative view. That's why these things pass muster... because its a conservative view as well. Now if we could only get you liberals to understand that freedom also extends to my son being able to pray in school before the test, to wear an NRA t shirt in class if he wishes, eat fries made with trans fats and drink a 20 ounce coke at lunch, actually fight back when he is being bullied, and for him and I to own whatever guns we choose and go out hunting after classes are over...
 
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Just to point out.. at least 2 conservatives and I think a couple of libertarians agree with pro choice view. Because its the true conservative view. That's why these things pass muster... because its a conservative view as well. Now if we could only get you liberals to understand that freedom also extends to my son being able to pray in school before the test, to wear an NRA t shirt in class if he wishes and, and for him and I to own whatever guns we choose...

I am not a big NRA fan. They lie and distort the facts on gun safety laws. That said your son should be able to wear any shirt he wants as long as it is not vulger and he should be able to pray as long as he does not go into speaking tounges or screaming. I was told when I worked at Boeing that I could not wear a King Diamond shirt because King Diamond was a known Satanist. It ticked me off being a metal fan and who said metal was supposed to be nice. The more Satanic the better the metal.
 
Religous fanatics are at the forefront of anti abortion views in this country. Are you saying otherwise?

No, I'm wondering why that is.

I can't thing of a single instance other than abortion where people support intentionally killing another person out of convenience.
 
No, I'm wondering why that is.

I can't thing of a single instance other than abortion where people support intentionally killing another person out of convenience.

Let me save some time here. The argument is that the unborn is not a "person" and therefore doesn't have the right not to be killed.
 
Let me save some time here. The argument is that the unborn is not a "person" and therefore doesn't have the right not to be killed.

But it is a person.

It's an undisputed medical fact.
 
No, I'm wondering why that is.

I can't thing of a single instance other than abortion where people support intentionally killing another person out of convenience.

I can't think of a single instance other than abortion where people claim that cells are a person.
 
But it is a person.

It's an undisputed medical fact.

No, "personhood" is philosophic.

This is a legal construct and also a ethical/moral construct rather than a medical construct.
 
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