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Slapping reality into GOP elites

haymarket

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing

Somehow, the establishment thinks, it can instruct all those millions of Republican voters who came out for Trump and Cruz and Kasich to fall in line behind, say, Speaker Paul Ryan.
This is the nostrum being proposed to save the Republican Party. The greater likelihood is that it will blow the party up, triggering everything from brawls over rules and credentials, to post-convention efforts to launch a third party or write in campaign, to guerrilla wars at the state and local level, with primaries and party purges threatening anyone who embraced the “party will decide!” philosophy.
Why the likelihood of such fury? Because the underlying question the Republicans will face in Cleveland is whether one can really turn back the clock. Now that ordinary Republican voters, like Democrats, have experienced decades of real democracy, what will their reaction be if it’s taken away from them? The polls tell us that Republican voters want no part of such a process. Even in Wisconsin, where GOP voters decisively rejected Trump, exit polls indicated that most Republicans want the nominee to be the one with the plurality of votes.
And that feeling is not confined to Wisconsin. A Bloomberg Politics poll in late March found that 63 percent of Republicans polled want the candidate with the most delegates by the time of the convention to win the nomination. Only 33 percent said the delegates should pick the nominee regardless of the count at convention time. And a pro-Trump PAC is running ads on FOX News urging viewers to register that sentiment with their phone calls.



Read more: Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
 

fmw

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing





Read more: Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

I agree but it is pretty obvious to me at least that the party establishment doesn't care. I doubt they care that much about the party either. It is all about power and control as with everything else in politics.
 

haymarket

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I agree but it is pretty obvious to me at least that the party establishment doesn't care. I doubt they care that much about the party either. It is all about power and control as with everything else in politics.

I have to agree.
 

joG

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing





Read more: Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

You mean the voter wants to pay double for underpants instead of importing them so she can have a $15 minimum wage and not buy a Porsche? I don't think voters really like reality. It's more the dreams, they love.
 

haymarket

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You mean the voter wants to pay double for underpants instead of importing them so she can have a $15 minimum wage and not buy a Porsche? I don't think voters really like reality. It's more the dreams, they love.

Were you replying to the thread about the GOP elites and the primary voters? I ask because I am confused what your reply means in relation to that story.
 

OrphanSlug

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Not a bad article.

No matter what happens with the delegate count there will be some backroom dealings going on at the convention, just about everyone is convinced that Establishment will have to seclude themselves just long enough to decide what happens.

Assuming Trump has the delegates needed, then the biggest risk the article covers well. Handing the nomination off to someone not even in the primary race. Assuming no one has the delegate count needed, expect this to be a complete fiasco at the convention. Really anything can happen.

The main thing is the GOP did this to themselves. All the factions of the party (or those factions that may support the party) all want different things now. Not only are those goals no longer aligned, but no one faction within the party has a set of goals that appeals to enough voters on a national level.

Best the GOP can do is hold onto Congress using the mechanism of appealing to only those voters needed in those voting areas. It allows them to appeal to social conservatives in the southeast, and more establishment types up in the northeast, the anti-immigrant crowd in the states bordering Mexico, and then whatever is left of tea party wherever else.
 

notquiteright

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I see it a bit differently-

What many see as a lack of concern by the party elite for the 'vote' is the elite sees that vote driving the PUB bus off a cliff. Some of them remember the McGovern Humphrey candidacies and the huge losses after them.

No one on the GOP side talks about any 'invisible hand' guiding the free market, none claim CEOs won't trash the economy for short term gain anymore- but it was a mantra of the GOP right before the Crash of 2008.

Cruz and Trump have a corrosive message that will struggle in the general election. Positions far to the Right on some very important social issues. Some, like Trump seem intent on using a 'crazy man' persona for international relations, or Cruz who would end the IRS, claims the Dems will destroy the 2nd A if one gets in the White House... :shock:

Sad that the one candidate who does well against Hillary or Bernie can't even get arrested on Primary day... :peace
 

Chomsky

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing

<snip>
Whenever political or other systems get too far out-of-balance, an upheaval occurs to restore balance. I don't necessarily see this as a bad process, since a realignment must be done if the GOP are to win the Presidency in the near future. There's not just the partly-line involved, but voters' expectations need to be realistic as well. What the voters want, can't always be accomplished!

Reference Speaker Boehner allowing Sen Cruz and the T-Party faction to take a fall in the most recent government shutdown, and the subsequent moderation that occurred allowing them to capture the Senate where they then passed a budget and credit increase with little fanfare! Why? Because they had a taste of reality, which led to success. Perhaps it's now time the voters get a taste of the same!

I agree but it is pretty obvious to me at least that the party establishment doesn't care. I doubt they care that much about the party either. It is all about power and control as with everything else in politics.
Well, this is a double-edged sword: As with most human endeavors, individual self-interest here reigns supreme. However, those in power & influence are smart enough to know that in this endeavor (political ascendancy) they need to be part of a group power-structure to be effective. So the power of the individuals is also often incumbent upon the success of the party.

So these guys are always running the line of their personal power being largely derived from the structure of the party power. The spoils of being an elite within the Republican or Democratic Party are far different than a similar position within, say The United States Pirate Party or Marijuana Parties! So these guys need the Republican Party to succeed if they want to remain big-time players!
 
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Glen Contrarian

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing





Read more: Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

I must admit that while I enjoyed watching the train wrecks that were the last two GOP presidential runs, this one really makes me want to break out the popcorn. I'd set aside two dozen wings and a couple six-packs of beer for watching the election night results, but my Darling won't let me get away with that. My sons tell me I'm too "whipped". Yeah...but I love her more than I love beer. Man, what has happened to me????
 

Glen Contrarian

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Whenever political or other systems get too far out-of-balance, an upheaval occurs to restore balance. I don't necessarily see this as a bad process, since a realignment must be done if the GOP are to win the Presidency in the near future. There's not just the partly-line involved, but voters' expectations need to be realistic as well. What the voters want, can't always be accomplished!

Haymarket and Chomsky - this is way off topic, but I was listening to an intelligence-squared debate yesterday, and it was a real joy to listen to two English professors - with all the scathing wit at their command - debate whether Greece or Rome had more influence on the modern day. I think you'd both really enjoy it!
 

Chomsky

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Haymarket and Chomsky - this is way off topic, but I was listening to an intelligence-squared debate yesterday, and it was a real joy to listen to two English professors - with all the scathing wit at their command - debate whether Greece or Rome had more influence on the modern day. I think you'd both really enjoy it!
Didn't listen (yet), but I give it to the Greeks!

The Greeks had the ideas, and the Romans had the technology & means! And ideas always win the way in terms of importance. CF: "democracy", "captalism", "freedom", etc. Come-up with a great idea, and an inspired someone will implement it; conversely, bad ideas even well implemented, usually collapse, often quite spectacularly!
 

Glen Contrarian

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Didn't listen (yet), but I give it to the Greeks!

The Greeks had the ideas, and the Romans had the technology & means! And ideas always win the way in terms of importance. CF: "democracy", "captalism", "freedom", etc. Come-up with a great idea, and an inspired someone will implement it; conversely, bad ideas even well implemented, usually collapse, often quite spectacularly!

I thought as you do...but there's so much in the debate that I did not know - I was prepping my downstairs for painting while I was listening, and my jaw was developing a habit of dropping to the floor every few minutes while Mary Beard described what we owe - what London owes - to the Romans...and it's probably not what you think. I usually consider myself an intelligent individual, but listening to these two...I felt like a kid in grade school again. It's one of those moments when those of us with a little knowledge realize that we have yet to drink deeply from Alexander Pope's Pierian spring.
 

haymarket

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I must admit that while I enjoyed watching the train wrecks that were the last two GOP presidential runs, this one really makes me want to break out the popcorn. I'd set aside two dozen wings and a couple six-packs of beer for watching the election night results, but my Darling won't let me get away with that. My sons tell me I'm too "whipped". Yeah...but I love her more than I love beer. Man, what has happened to me????

I can sympathize my friend. During the week of the GOP Convention in Cleveland, my wife and I have our annual vacation week with the kids uo in northern Michigan where we rent a big house with a pool and everybody just chills for a week. And my wife has already dropped a few less than subtle hints that our vacation will not be spent watching the GOP savage each other for more than what we might get on the nightly news.

What has happened to you is the same thing that happens to all men who stay married - we learn the most important three words you can ever say to a woman are NOT "I love you" but "you're right dear".

What is the old saying? Happy wife- happy life.
 

fmw

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Well, this is a double-edged sword: As with most human endeavors, individual self-interest here reigns supreme. However, those in power & influence are smart enough to know that in this endeavor (political ascendancy) they need to be part of a group power-structure to be effective. So the power of the individuals is also often incumbent upon the success of the party.

So these guys are always running the line of their personal power being largely derived from the structure of the party power. The spoils of being an elite within the Republican or Democratic Party are far different than a similar position within, say The United States Pirate Party or Marijuana Parties! So these guys need the Republican Party to succeed if they want to remain big-time players!

True to be sure but I still think they don't care - even though they should - based on what they are planning.
 

haymarket

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Haymarket and Chomsky - this is way off topic, but I was listening to an intelligence-squared debate yesterday, and it was a real joy to listen to two English professors - with all the scathing wit at their command - debate whether Greece or Rome had more influence on the modern day. I think you'd both really enjoy it!

Sounds terrific!
 

Glen Contrarian

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I can sympathize my friend. During the week of the GOP Convention in Cleveland, my wife and I have our annual vacation week with the kids uo in northern Michigan where we rent a big house with a pool and everybody just chills for a week. And my wife has already dropped a few less than subtle hints that our vacation will not be spent watching the GOP savage each other for more than what we might get on the nightly news.

What has happened to you is the same thing that happens to all men who stay married - we learn the most important three words you can ever say to a woman are NOT "I love you" but "you're right dear".

What is the old saying? Happy wife- happy life.

Yeah...and the problem is, she usually IS right. I've read many hundreds of books over the years, and she's read ONE fiction book and probably less than ten non-fiction books...and she thinks and argues circles around me. I thought I was smart...until I married her. She's such a good girl, but she's tough as nails when she needs to be.

The story I like to tell is how one time she was at our house in the Philippines (I was here stateside) and she saw a small snake in the kitchen...and the snake was crawling with its head raised - apparently, a young cobra. She not only chases it out of the kitchen, but when it went into a small pile of rocks behind the house, she took a machete, dug through the rocks till she found the cobra, and chopped it into little pieces. I'm telling you, Angelina Jolie has nothing on her!
 

haymarket

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Yeah...and the problem is, she usually IS right. I've read many hundreds of books over the years, and she's read ONE fiction book and probably less than ten non-fiction books...and she thinks and argues circles around me. I thought I was smart...until I married her. She's such a good girl, but she's tough as nails when she needs to be.

The story I like to tell is how one time she was at our house in the Philippines (I was here stateside) and she saw a small snake in the kitchen...and the snake was crawling with its head raised - apparently, a young cobra. She not only chases it out of the kitchen, but when it went into a small pile of rocks behind the house, she took a machete, dug through the rocks till she found the cobra, and chopped it into little pieces. I'm telling you, Angelina Jolie has nothing on her!

DAMN!!!!!! You may want to keep sharp knives away from her. :mrgreen::2wave:
 

joG

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Were you replying to the thread about the GOP elites and the primary voters? I ask because I am confused what your reply means in relation to that story.

A major issue for the gop seems to be trade policy etc.
 

beerftw

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Politico today has an excellent article which does a tremendous job at showing why the fiction that a GOP open convention is the answer to their problems.

Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine

They point out that some GOP elitists live in their own world divorced from the one voters live in and are contemptuous of voters and dismiss their power as exercised in the primary.

Its a eye opening view that - if accurate - spells nothing but more problems for the GOP down the road should they decide to stop Trump and turn to somebody like Ryan or even Kasich.

here is a taste of the article - please read the whole thing





Read more: Can GOP Elites Really Turn Back the Clock in Cleveland? - POLITICO Magazine
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The problem with the republican party is that it is conservative. The bigger problem is that it panders to all conservative groups, then casts them aside after they win. It is a battle between social conservatives, fiscal conservative, constitutional conservatives etc.

The establishment is on a losing streak by trying to decide that their own constituents do not matter, and that the will of the party trumps the will of the voters. Likely if trump does not get the nomination, this hate will grow even more next cycle. It is going to be like the southern strategy in proportion where the parties shift, just not over racial issues.
 
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