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Sixth Commandment True Translation

Repub05

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I'm getting sick of all these liberals/anti-war protesters twisting my god's words around. Most of them think the 6th commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" when actually the true translation from Hebrew is "Thou shalt not murder" and some of you will argue that they're the same thing when they are not. Murder is killing, but killing isn't murder. Returning fire to an Iraqi insurgent and killing him is not murder. Gets your facts straights (some people find it insulting having their religions screwed with).
 

Simon W. Moon

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

Repub05 said:
I'm getting sick...
Here I thought this was about speedy trial etc.
 

Shye

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

but in this case it is murder. This is an unjust war.
 

shuamort

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

Repub05 said:
I'm getting sick of all these liberals/anti-war protesters twisting my god's words around. Most of them think the 6th commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" when actually the true translation from Hebrew is "Thou shalt not murder" and some of you will argue that they're the same thing when they are not. Murder is killing, but killing isn't murder. Returning fire to an Iraqi insurgent and killing him is not murder. Gets your facts straights (some people find it insulting having their religions screwed with).
Umm, did you mean the sixth commandment and not amendment which is about the rights of accused in criminal prosecutions?
 

january

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

Repub05 said:
I'm getting sick of all these liberals/anti-war protesters twisting my god's words around. Most of them think the 6th commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" when actually the true translation from Hebrew is "Thou shalt not murder" and some of you will argue that they're the same thing when they are not. Murder is killing, but killing isn't murder.
Are you jewish?

I am, and I love it when Christians just pick the parts of the KJV of the bible they want to ignore that fit their personal political agenda.

Gets your facts straights (some people find it insulting having their religions screwed with)
Really. I wonder how Jesus would feel about this current war. Let's take a look, shall we, about how Jesus felt, about violence.

"You have heard it said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy".*
But I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons*of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil*and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you , what reward have you? Do not the tax gatherers do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?"****

Oh and as for us liberal/anti-war protesters:
" Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God."
repub05 said:
Returning fire to an Iraqi insurgent and killing him is not murder.
um, okay. Yeah, so when you invade a country, and the citiznes of that country try and defend themselves, it's not murder? So by your logic the victims of Pearl Harbor weren't murdered, because they shot back.

By the way, would you say that the estimated 100,000+ civilian casualties were murder?
 

Repub05

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

woops! Yeah, I kind of screwed up the title there, Shaumort - oh well. But I really want to reply for mister January.

Are you jewish?

I am, and I love it when Christians just pick the parts of the KJV of the bible they want to ignore that fit their personal political agenda.
Nope, I'm not jewish, and I love it when it when Jews named January try to explain exactly what I am ignoring so that it fiis my personal political agenda (what political agenda? I'm not a politician- I'm not even a legal adult.)

Really. I wonder how Jesus would feel about this current war. Let's take a look, shall we, about how Jesus felt, about violence.

Quote:
"You have heard it said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy".*
But I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons*of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil*and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you , what reward have you? Do not the tax gatherers do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?"****
How would Jesus feel? Well, I'm not sure I know for certain but I'm pretty sure he'd feel the same way God did when he helped liberate the jews (kind of like the kurds, and all Iraqis for that matter) from Eygpt (kind of like Iraq). But did God do it the way you liberals think we should do it today? Did he peaceably free the Jews from the Pharaoh's (kind of like Saddam and his regime) rule? NO. It took alot of convincing, in fact it took ten torturous plagues to convince him, and the death of his son, and even after he told Moses to get out, the Pharaoh chased the Jews.

Are we in this war because Iraq was our enemy? No. We've got enemy countries that we're not fighting. Most of you liberals think that Republicans are just war mongers that just want to use our armed forces to go kill people.
You know what January? I would have prefered a more peaceful solution to make sure Iraq wasn't making WMD's, in fact Bush offered them a better solution - all he wanted to do was have the UN go check out IRaq- no one dies, no one gets hurt. And although Saddam did agree to let UN officials in there initially, he told them to go to hell right before UN officials went in. Doesn't that look just a tad bit suspicious considering Iraqi officials had already confessed to US delegates in 1995, to have making thousands of biological weapons including aerosol mist sprayers (I think thats what they are called) before and during GW1 and that other countries have record of selling strands of Bacillus anthracis (the germ that causes the disease Anthrax; the strand Vollum 1B to be exact)? And also keeping in mind the possibilty that Iraq may have had this biologicalaresenal sitting around just before UN wanted to come in and check things out?

Oh and as for us liberal/anti-war protesters:
Quote:
" Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God."
Really? Yeah you liberals would have done a lot to help create peace in Iraq by sitting your asses and trying to talk things over with a sociopathic dictator named Saddam. ***NEWS FLASH*** He didn't get the message the first gulf war and he sure as hell didn't get it when Clinton did the 'peacemaking way'.

um, okay. Yeah, so when you invade a country, and the citiznes of that country try and defend themselves, it's not murder? So by your logic the victims of Pearl Harbor weren't murdered, because they shot back.

By the way, would you say that the estimated 100,000+ civilian casualties were murder?
um, okay. Yeah, so when the Japs bombed our soldiers- I'll assume they were aiming at the soldiers and the soldiers had the right to defend themselves. And I'm also going to assume that our marines don't just walk around the desert shooting up anybody they see just to make a Jew named January accuse my armed forces of commiting over 100,000+ atrocities. so by your logic everyone in the armed forces thats accidentally shot a civillian while trying to hit somebody else or some other accidental reason is a murderer. Wow, you're an ass.
 

shuamort

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Re: Sixth Amendment True Translation

Repub05 said:
woops! Yeah, I kind of screwed up the title there, Shaumort - oh well.
(Fixed. ;) )

Repub05 said:
Wow, you're an ass.
Let's keep the ad hominem attacks off the board per the rules. Thanks!
 

january

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It's just obvious by the fact that all you could do was insult me that you have no debate skills and/or intellegence.

But the whole comparing-the-US-army-to-the-wrath-of-God thing was actually kind of amusing.

BTW. My name is January. Sound feminine to you?

Anyways. Jesus was a pacifist. Violence goes against the teachings of Jesus. War goes against the teachings of Jesus. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of the Sermon on the Mount you want to follow, and still call yourself a Christian.

Support or engage in war, and you are not following the Word. And you are not a true Christian. I'm not saying whether or not war is right, or whether violence is ever good. But Jesus, you know, your Lord and savior, said it wasn't. Under any circumstances.
 

Repub05

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Sorry Shuamort I'll stop and thank you for fixing the title! January,

It's just obvious by the fact that all you could do was insult me that you have no debate skills and/or intellegence.
Hmm, well I'll admit that I did insult you at times in my reply but I don't think my whole reply was just some nasty hate letter to you but if your feelings are hurt by my beliefs then I'm not one to judge. Let's not be hypocrites here, if I'm stupid and "undebatable" because you felt insulted during my reply, what does that make you? Your first sentence was an insult (not that I'm crying over it or anything)

Anyways. Jesus was a pacifist. Violence goes against the teachings of Jesus. War goes against the teachings of Jesus. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of the Sermon on the Mount you want to follow, and still call yourself a Christian.

Support or engage in war, and you are not following the Word. And you are not a true Christian. I'm not saying whether or not war is right, or whether violence is ever good. But Jesus, you know, your Lord and savior, said it wasn't. Under any circumstances.
I may be wrong, and prove me if so and I'll apologize, but I don't think Jesus said war was 100 % unjustifiable under any circumstances and I don't think he ever registered as a pacifist :lol: or even claimed to being one.

Now lets imagine that you had the control over what would happen (wether we go to war or not) in your perfect little world what would you have done? not knowing wether or not Saddam had an aresenal of biological weapons and knowing that he murdered thousands of his own people? If you and Jesus are so much like each other, tell me - what would you do if you were in Bush's shoes and what would Jesus do?

I don't want your next reply to tell me how stupid I am and/or how non-Christian I am, I want you to answer my question.
 

january

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First of all, Iraq posed no threat.

Peroid.

And if Amercia represented the true Christian values that this administration is preaching, we would not have had to go to war.

We had to go to war because we all of these so called "christians" strayed from their path. To the path of greed, hatred, over-consumption, decadence, etc.

We gave them all the reasons to hate us. And while it in no way justified their actions, I believe if we'd just left the middle east the eff alone... stayed out of Isreal, not done business with the Saudis, etc. We would not be in the situation we are in now. We've always known their were extremists in that region, and it isn't really a strech to assume they might get powerful enough to attack us.

If the US hadn't been going around the world playing global vigilante for the last 40 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And BTW, I am not saying whether we should, or should not have gone to war. Only that war goes against the teachings of Jesus. George Bush cannot preach to me about "sanctity or life" or "sanctity of marraige" because he does not follow a basic tenent of his Lord's teachings. He is not a true disciple of Christ. Jesus also said it was adultary to marry a divorced woman. I do not agree with that. That's why I am not a Christian. The point is, you cannot just pick and choose what parts are convenient to you.

All I meant was, I am sick of certain peope learning one or two words of Hebrew and using that to translate certain scriptures that fit their agenda. Don't act like some kind of student of theology or something. As part of my attempts to better understand other faiths, I have read the Christian bible. And the only thing that shocked me was the rampant hypocrisy among His flock. And you know, if you were to actually learn Hebrew and read the scrolls, you might find a lot of interesting variations. Going from Hebrew to Latin, to German to English leaves room for a lot of "misquoting"

And there is not one credible Christian scholar who does not agree that Jesus denounced violence of any kind.


Here's some backround material:

Sermon on the Mount
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Repub05 said:
I'm getting sick of all these liberals/anti-war protesters twisting my god's words around. Most of them think the 6th commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" when actually the true translation from Hebrew is "Thou shalt not murder" and some of you will argue that they're the same thing when they are not. Murder is killing, but killing isn't murder. Returning fire to an Iraqi insurgent and killing him is not murder. Gets your facts straights (some people find it insulting having their religions screwed with).
I completely agree, there is a difference between killing and murder. For example, you can kill in self defense, or even to be humane such as in the case putting down an animal who is suffering. In terms of war, killing your enemy in defense of your nation is not murder (within reason of course, if you just up and raped the women in villages, and killed the children, that would be considered murder).

That said, Jesus was the Prince of Peace. He said to turn the other cheek. Numerous references in the Bible tell us to avoid war at all cost. Sometimes you can’t avoid war; World War II is a perfect example of a war that was absolutely unavoidable. However, it is absolutely blasphemous to claim that a preemptive military action is a biblically just war. Jesus said that if someone strikes you, turn the other cheek (which was meant to be an insult). Jesus did not say “strike someone first, if you fear they will strike you”. The Christian thing to do is to always absorb the first blow (9/11 doesn’t count as the first blow because Iraq had nothing to do with it). The Christian thing to do would have been to wait until war with Iraq would have been absolutely the last resort.
 

Real_American15

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Repub05 said:
I'm getting sick of all these liberals/anti-war protesters twisting my god's words around. Most of them think the 6th commandment is "Thou shalt not kill" when actually the true translation from Hebrew is "Thou shalt not murder" and some of you will argue that they're the same thing when they are not. Murder is killing, but killing isn't murder. Returning fire to an Iraqi insurgent and killing him is not murder. Gets your facts straights (some people find it insulting having their religions screwed with).
I would say the exactly same thing. I think that in a war returning fire to a insurgent is actually self-defense.
 

punkyg0608

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It's not murder to kill in war. In war, you are fighting to protect yourself and your fellow soldiers. You may not be shooting in self-defense, but by killing an enemy soldier you may be saving the lives of other soldiers. However, if you kill enemy soldiers when it is not necessary then that would be considered murder. For example, in my opinion, it would not be considered murder to kill enemy soldiers in a battle. But it would be considered murder to shoot enemy soldiers after they have surrendered. For me, killing in war is murder only if it is unnecessary.
 
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