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Since When Were the Quakers Terrorists?

danarhea

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While the administration defends its spying on Americans by the NSA, here is somthing to think about. What did the Quakers ever do to warrant massive government spying on them, except for the fact that they are dissenters in regard Bush's policies? The answer to that question will reveal the real motives of the Bushneviks - That is to turn the USA into a police state in the traditions of the old Soviet Union.

Article is here, along with links to NSA documents.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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danarhea said:
While the administration defends its spying on Americans by the NSA, here is somthing to think about. What did the Quakers ever do to warrant massive government spying on them, except for the fact that they are dissenters in regard Bush's policies? The answer to that question will reveal the real motives of the Bushneviks - That is to turn the USA into a police state in the traditions of the old Soviet Union.

Article is here, along with links to NSA documents.
But...But....But.......I thought if you had nothing to hide then there was nothing to worry about?:roll:
 

stsburns

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danarhea said:
While the administration defends its spying on Americans by the NSA, here is somthing to think about. What did the Quakers ever do to warrant massive government spying on them, except for the fact that they are dissenters in regard Bush's policies? The answer to that question will reveal the real motives of the Bushneviks - That is to turn the USA into a police state in the traditions of the old Soviet Union.

Article is here, along with links to NSA documents.
So spying is a tradition of the old Soviet Union? DO I REALLY HAVE TO GO RESEARCH QUAKERS? :confused:
 

danarhea

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stsburns said:
So spying is a tradition of the old Soviet Union? DO I REALLY HAVE TO GO RESEARCH QUAKERS? :confused:
Thats up to you, but meanwhile you can research on how the Soviets spied on their own dissidents, then you will see that I am not that far off the mark.
 

stsburns

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danarhea said:
Thats up to you, but meanwhile you can research on how the Soviets spied on their own dissidents, then you will see that I am not that far off the mark.
OK man I'm trusting you on this! :2wave:
 
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Ever look at the shape of Pennsylvania?!?! No right thinking group of people designs a state like that! The thought of driving through there has me terrified! I'm glad that somebody is trying to put a stop to their nefarious antics.

P.S. Stay away from the oatmeal, trust me on this
 

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the whole quaker religion is kinda whacked-out.....it is just about the only religion in this world that I have no respect for....it was started by a crazy lady who lost her kids and beleived that people shouldn't have sex!!!!
 

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goligoth said:
the whole quaker religion is kinda whacked-out.....it is just about the only religion in this world that I have no respect for....it was started by a crazy lady who lost her kids and beleived that people shouldn't have sex!!!!
Then all the more reason to spy on them. In fact, anyone who acts or looks different SHOULD be spied on. Can't trust 'em. :doh
 
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Middleground said:
Then all the more reason to spy on them. In fact, anyone who acts or looks different SHOULD be spied on.:doh
And be put to the question by Spanish Inquisitors. And imprisoned without charges being filed. And eventually, if- somehow- nothing materializes, stripped of citizenship and deported.

If we're going to do this, we've got to go all the way...
 

danarhea

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goligoth said:
the whole quaker religion is kinda whacked-out.....it is just about the only religion in this world that I have no respect for....it was started by a crazy lady who lost her kids and beleived that people shouldn't have sex!!!!
Whether you or anyone else thinks they are whacked out is irrelevant. After all, they are a peaceful group, which has just as much of a right to First Amendment protection as any other peaceful group.

According to the Baltimore Sun, in this article, the NSA used the Baltimore Police to harrass this group. Three in the group were arrested, and later charges were dropped. In addition, the NSA and the Baltimore Police Department coordinated their spying activites against this group.

Of course, there are some here who will make the claim that the Quakers are affiliated with al Qaeda. After all, those who are not with the administration are with the terrorists, right?
 
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danarhea said:
While the administration defends its spying on Americans by the NSA, here is somthing to think about. What did the Quakers ever do to warrant massive government spying on them, except for the fact that they are dissenters in regard Bush's policies? The answer to that question will reveal the real motives of the Bushneviks - That is to turn the USA into a police state in the traditions of the old Soviet Union.

Article is here, along with links to NSA documents.
Can't let you get away with this, dan. The left keeps glossing over this and it just doesn't fly. The administration isn't spying on just "Americans". They used survellence on people who are involved in terrorist activity, in planning and plotting us harm. There's a difference, a means to an end, a desire to protect and disrupt terrorist cells. It's not like they sit around and spy on danarhea or kcconservative. They're much too busy for that, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sorry this tactic was leaked. The terroists must be laughing their beards off as they watch us shoot ourselves in the foot.
 

danarhea

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KCConservative said:
Can't let you get away with this, dan. The left keeps glossing over this and it just doesn't fly. The administration isn't spying on just "Americans". They used survellence on people who are involved in terrorist activity, in planning and plotting us harm. There's a difference, a means to an end, a desire to protect and disrupt terrorist cells. It's not like they sit around and spy on danarhea or kcconservative. They're much too busy for that, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sorry this tactic was leaked. The terroists must be laughing their beards off as they watch us shoot ourselves in the foot.
Which brings us back to the title of this thread - Since when were the Quakers terrorists?
 
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danarhea said:
Which brings us back to the title of this thread - Since when were the Quakers terrorists?
I will admit that I posted before reading your link. Instead, I quickly responded to your comment on "spying on Americans" - in general.

I should point out that rawstory isn;t exactly a fair source, but let's go with it.

After reading your link, I first noticed this:

The documents came as a result of litigation in the August 2004 trial of Marilyn Carlisle and Cindy Farquhar. An NSA security official provided the defendants with a redacted Action Plan and a redacted copy of a Joint Terrorism Task Force email about the activities of the Pledge of Resistance activities.

and this:

NSA officials even reported on the balloons being inflated for the demonstration and the content of their signs.

An entry made at 1300 hours on July 4. reads, "The Soc. was advised the protestors were proceeding to the airplane memorial with three helium balloons attached to a banner that stated, 'Those Who Exchange Freedom for Security Deserve Neither, Will Ultimately Lose Both.'"

On the day of the demonstration three protesters were cited for "disturbances on government property" and released.



To me, that's a probably reason for suspicion. Where do you think terrorists and terrorist sympathizers hang out? My guess is they demonstrate and protest.
 

danarhea

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KCConservative said:
I will admit that I posted before reading your link. Instead, I quickly responded to your comment on "spying on Americans" - in general.

I should point out that rawstory isn;t exactly a fair source, but let's go with it.

After reading your link, I first noticed this:

The documents came as a result of litigation in the August 2004 trial of Marilyn Carlisle and Cindy Farquhar. An NSA security official provided the defendants with a redacted Action Plan and a redacted copy of a Joint Terrorism Task Force email about the activities of the Pledge of Resistance activities.

and this:

NSA officials even reported on the balloons being inflated for the demonstration and the content of their signs.

An entry made at 1300 hours on July 4. reads, "The Soc. was advised the protestors were proceeding to the airplane memorial with three helium balloons attached to a banner that stated, 'Those Who Exchange Freedom for Security Deserve Neither, Will Ultimately Lose Both.'"

On the day of the demonstration three protesters were cited for "disturbances on government property" and released.



To me, that's a probably reason for suspicion. Where do you think terrorists and terrorist sympathizers hang out? My guess is they demonstrate and protest.
1) My second source was the Baltimore Sun, a mainstream paper which is quite appropriate, since this happened in Baltimore. As for Raw Story, they have quite a knack for getting scoops ahead of MSM. They beat out MSM by almost a week on this story.

2) On what you claim are reasons for suspicion, the suspicion, and subsequent spying, existed long before the arrests. And also note that the charges were dropped. Repeat after me - Harassment. Arrests have been made for this purpose during the course of American history. Women who marched for the vote were arrested. People marching to protest slavery were arrested. Blacks were arrested for marching in the 50's and 60's. You cannot make the claim that, because people are arrested, they are therefore suspcious, especially when the charges are dropped. There has to be evidence, which in this case, there was none - The reason for their release. You are putting the cart ahead of the horse on this one. And let me stress a second time, the spying on the Quakers was going on long before the frivolous arrests were made, which puts an end to the argument that because they were arrested, there had to be a reason to spy on them. Spying first. Arrest second. Release which no charges third.
 
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danarhea said:
1) My second source was the Baltimore Sun, a mainstream paper which is quite appropriate, since this happened in Baltimore. As for Raw Story, they have quite a knack for getting scoops ahead of MSM. They beat out MSM by almost a week on this story.

2) On what you claim are reasons for suspicion, the suspicion, and subsequent spying, existed long before the arrests. And also note that the charges were dropped. Repeat after me - Harassment. Arrests have been made for this purpose during the course of American history. Women who marched for the vote were arrested. People marching to protest slavery were arrested. Blacks were arrested for marching in the 50's and 60's. You cannot make the claim that, because people are arrested, they are therefore suspcious, especially when the charges are dropped. There has to be evidence, which in this case, there was none - The reason for their release. You are putting the cart ahead of the horse on this one. And let me stress a second time, the spying on the Quakers was going on long before the frivolous arrests were made, which puts an end to the argument that because they were arrested, there had to be a reason to spy on them. Spying first. Arrest second. Release which no charges third.
I sure wish the cart had been ahead of the horse on 9/11.
 

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I'm sure Bush considers any Christian group that preaches peace to be potential terrorists.
 
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scottyz said:
I'm sure Bush considers any Christian group that preaches peace to be potential terrorists.
oh, do you? :roll:
 

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To call this group "Quakers" is a huge simplification. One of the groups assisting, AFSC, is associated with the Quakers. This does not mean in any way that the protestors were all Quakers. Guess it sounds better as a soundbite.

Second, you make it sound like the NSA conducted wiretaps against these people. Nothing could be further from the truth. They simply kept track of the protest and what the protestors were up to.

Third, the NSA had every reason to be wary of the protestors. They knew that a group called BERN was assisting them and this group had gotten into the NSA complex previously and poured blood all over the sidewalk.

The other reason for concern was that a NSA family picnic was taking place at the same time as the protest. The NSA was naturally concerned that their families might become endangered.
 

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KCConservative said:
Can't let you get away with this, dan. The left keeps glossing over this and it just doesn't fly. The administration isn't spying on just "Americans". They used survellence on people who are involved in terrorist activity, in planning and plotting us harm. There's a difference, a means to an end, a desire to protect and disrupt terrorist cells. It's not like they sit around and spy on danarhea or kcconservative. They're much too busy for that, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sorry this tactic was leaked. The terroists must be laughing their beards off as they watch us shoot ourselves in the foot.
You cannot definitively state that either way. We don’t know whom the Bush Administration has been spying on because they have decided to forgo the Judicial Approval process in many cases. I doubt very seriously that they have not abused these court orders being that any time the government has been given a window into our private lives, that they have inevitably abused that power.
 

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KCConservative said:
To me, that's a probably reason for suspicion. Where do you think terrorists and terrorist sympathizers hang out? My guess is they demonstrate and protest.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the 9/11 hijackers exactly the opposite of people who demonstrate and prostest? Didn't they keep to themselves as much as possible, aside from trying to learn to fly a plane?
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
You cannot definitively state that either way. We don’t know whom the Bush Administration has been spying on because they have decided to forgo the Judicial Approval process in many cases. I doubt very seriously that they have not abused these court orders being that any time the government has been given a window into our private lives, that they have inevitably abused that power.
And you cannot say they are spying on people like you or me. In fact, logic would indicate that would be a waste of time. Keeping an eye on terrorists, however, makes perfect sense.
 
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Cremaster77 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the 9/11 hijackers exactly the opposite of people who demonstrate and prostest? Didn't they keep to themselves as much as possible, aside from trying to learn to fly a plane?
Are you asking me to research this for you? If you know this to be the true, then present your case.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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KCConservative said:
And you cannot say they are spying on people like you or me. In fact, logic would indicate that would be a waste of time. Keeping an eye on terrorists, however, makes perfect sense.
No, logic and historical precedence would indicate that this would at some point be used for political gain. Such as spying on political opponents or reporters.

Why do you think we have the FISA courts?

At anyrate, like anything else, they are going to lose this one. Even many Senate Republicans are against it.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
No, logic and historical precedence would indicate that this would at some point be used for political gain. Such as spying on political opponents or reporters.

Why do you think we have the FISA courts?

At anyrate, like anything else, they are going to lose this one. Even many Senate Republicans are against it.
yeah, what are few bomb builders anyway? They're harmless, I'm sure. Let's just make sure they don't listen to yours and my boring lives.
 

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KCConservative said:
yeah, what are few bomb builders anyway? They're harmless, I'm sure. Let's just make sure they don't listen to yours and my boring lives.
I am all for the government listening in on Terrorists. I just think they need to follow the law and get FISA court orders within 72 hours of doing so. What is wrong with that?
 
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