"Sin taxes": Legit?

[Gimmesometruth]

It should be called the "politically impotent tax", because that's what it really is... fleecing people who don't have the collective political clout to fight back.

They're probably to unhealthy to fight back.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

That's exactly why most laws face testing wherein the government need may be defined as narrowly focused or rejected when it comes to constitutional definitions.

So those fed taxes on tobacco were tested...tell me about 'em.

 

[radcen]

I'm giving you the clap :applaud I agree with this 100%.

Ok, no lie... that made my day. :lol:

 

[Phys251]

If the behavior is a danger to others, shouldn't it be made outright illegal?

Not necessarily. Look how well prohibition and the war on drugs have worked. And yes, I believe that alcohol is a net liability to society, but there is no way in hell I support banning it.

 

[iguanaman]

Only if the taxed behavior can be shown to have an overall detrimental effect on their users or those around them. Otherwise, no, sin taxes are silly.

Taxes on alcohol and tobacco are used to defray the enormous costs these "vices" put on society. The taxes barely scrape the surface of these costs.

Excessive alcohol use continues to be a drain on the American economy, according to a study released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Excessive drinking cost the U.S. $249 billion in 2010, or $2.05 per drink, a significant increase from $223.5 billion, or $1.90 per drink, in 2006. Most of these costs were due to reduced workplace productivity, crime, and the cost of treating people for health problems caused by excessive drinking.

Excessive alcohol use continues to be drain on American economy | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

 

[Napoleon]

It should be called the "politically impotent tax", because that's what it really is... fleecing people who don't have the collective political clout to fight back.

It's not a matter of political clout. A $1.60 tax is not the hill I want to die on when we have far more egregious issues to contend with such as property taxes, which effectively make everyone a renter for life. Or abuses of eminent domain to benefit corporations.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Again, you seem to think everything the government tells you is the truth. The government might use the funds for ads, but they are also going to use it for unrelated items.

so....now it is going conspiracy theory. Sorry for rattling yer hospital door.

 

[radcen]

Not necessarily. Look how well prohibition and the war on drugs have worked. And yes, I believe that alcohol is a net liability to society, but there is no way in hell I support banning it.

I don't disagree, and I am a strong advocate of ending the "war on drugs", in part for this reason. Mine was a somewhat rhetorical question.

 

[clownboy]

So if ads are not needed to end smoking...because smoking has ended....I'm sorry.....what did you say?

You don't seem to get that state's governments are using the revenue generated for more than just anti-smoking ads. That those other programs supported will still require funding even if smoking ceases. That's the problem with the sort of sin tax targeted at ending a behavior. Government never lets revenue lie fallow. They find an use for it, often a vital use. So when the desired effect (cessation) is achieved, someone takes it in the shorts.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I don't disagree, and I am a strong advocate of ending the "war on drugs", in part for this reason. Mine was a somewhat rhetorical question.

So you weren't expecting an answer.....after you said "that is all".

Yet here you are....

I'm finding you really don't have any purpose for your postings.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You don't seem to get that state's governments are using the revenue generated for more than just anti-smoking ads. That those other programs supported will still require funding even if smoking ceases. That's the problem with the sort of sin tax targeted at ending a behavior. Government never lets revenue lie fallow. They find an use for it, often a vital use. So when the desired effect (cessation) is achieved, someone takes it in the shorts.

I' answered than in my response to rad a page or so ago.

Seems like if you are so obsessed with debating me you would have read it....instead of this random grabbing of my posts.

 

[radcen]

So you weren't expecting an answer.....after you said "that is all".

Yet here you are....

I'm finding you really don't have any purpose for your postings.

Oh, gee... I was snarky, so you gotta be snarky. Tit for tat, I guess. Fair enough. Can't leave our bruised ego on the playground, can we? Ok, it makes you feel better... :lol:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Oh, gee... I was snarky, so you gotta be snarky. Tit for tat, I guess. Fair enough. Can't leave our bruised ego on the playground, can we? Ok, it makes you feel better... :lol:

Bruised? Yer giving yer posts too much credit. I guess the understanding that 10 did fund antismoking hurt yer position so much.....it left you breathless.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Sin taxes lead to more underground economies, more laws, and even death.

 

[clownboy]

I' answered than in my response to rad a page or so ago.

Seems like if you are so obsessed with debating me you would have read it....instead of this random grabbing of my posts.

Your answer was nothing more than a dodge. You tried to divert with a bit about, are you going to stop funding ECE? It shows your position here to be a shallow one without the knowledge of what you're on about.

For instance, here in Oregon we used gas taxes (when they were trying to get folks to drive less) to help to fund education. The taxes had the desired effect - folks lightened up on their driving. But the schools had already spent that money, grown reliant upon it. Started new programs because of it. And then it began to disappear as did those new programs.

 

[radcen]

Sin taxes lead to more underground economies, more laws, and even death.

California's tobacco taxes have been raised several times over the years, and even the legislators acknowledge they can't go too far so as to encourage a black market.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Nonsense

Educating adolescents about the dangers of smoking in schools appears to be the most effective means of reducing adolescents’ smoking susceptibility in both countries, although different prevention strategies may be necessary to ensure effectiveness for male and female adolescents.

Effectiveness of Antismoking Media Messages and Education Among Adolescents in Malaysia and Thailand: Findings From the International Tobacco Control Southeast Asia Project

 

[Henrin]

Educating adolescents about the dangers of smoking in schools appears to be the most effective means of reducing adolescents’ smoking susceptibility in both countries, although different prevention strategies may be necessary to ensure effectiveness for male and female adolescents.

Effectiveness of Antismoking Media Messages and Education Among Adolescents in Malaysia and Thailand: Findings From the International Tobacco Control Southeast Asia Project

And people say the government doesn't use public school to brainwash children. :lol:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Your answer was nothing more than a dodge. You tried to divert with a bit about, are you going to stop funding ECE? It shows your position here to be a shallow one without the knowledge of what you're on about.

prop 10 funding has declined....because smoking has declined. Since the funding was not exclusive for antismoking but for preschool, what is yer complaint, that funding for preschool will need a new source? So be it.

For instance, here in Oregon we used gas taxes (when they were trying to get folks to drive less) to help to fund education. The taxes had the desired effect - folks lightened up on their driving. But the schools had already spent that money, grown reliant upon it. Started new programs because of it. And then it began to disappear as did those new programs.

So if the programs ended as did the funding....what is yer complaint now? You were whining that the program would not end.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

And people say the government doesn't use public school to brainwash children. :lol:

education=brainwashing. Sure.

Oh....you were going for comedy. Leave that to the pros.

 

[Phys251]

If the use of the targeted item declines, the problems associated with declines....and the services needed declines.

Beautiful graph. It's proof that science, reason, and good government can coexist to bring about a positive change for society.

 

[Henrin]

education=brainwashing. Sure.

Oh....you were going for comedy. Leave that to the pros.

Ok, come know, you want them to learn your way of thinking early on so they don't do something you disagree with. It's as much brainwashing as public schools did to pick up gay acceptance or what they doing now to pick up transgender acceptance.

 

[Carjosse]

Maybe in Canada, but here in the USA we have a constitution. Nowhere in the constitution is there government authority to "discourage" via taxation.

Does the government have the ability to levy taxes, yes, they have the ability to levy sin taxes.

 

[Henrin]

Beautiful graph. It's proof that science, reason, and good government can coexist to bring about a positive change for society.

The government controlling peoples behavior through taxes is good government?

 

[countryboy]

Does the government have the ability to levy taxes, yes, they have the ability to levy sin taxes.

Is it right, no.