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Silent Scream

Navy Pride

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I personally invite any of my pro abortion or pro choice friends to check out this web site and this film...............It shows and abortion doctor trying to perform and abortion with prongs probing the womb and the baby literally trying to avoid the prongs........

WARNING: THIS FILM IS GRAPHIC AND NOT FOR THE YOUNG..


http://www.silentscream.org/
 
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Navy Pride said:
I personally invite any of my pro abortion or pro choice friends to check out this web site and this film...............It shows and abortion doctor trying to perform and abortion with prongs probing the womb and the baby literally trying to avoid the prongs........

WARNING: THIS FILM IS GRAPHIC AND NOT FOR THE YOUNG..


http://www.silentscream.org/
I hope they watch it but I think they will not Because they can not face the truth. I dare them to watch it. From working in the medical field I know what happens I could not watch it. The tears were clouding my eye site no matter how many times I have tried to watch the "silent scream over the years, I can never see the whole flim. I watched 5 of my own die not from abortion. I pity the unloved babies dying in such a horific way. May their souls rest in peace.
 

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Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:
I hope they watch it but I think they will not Because they can not face the truth. I dare them to watch it. From working in the medical field I know what happens I could not watch it. The tears were clouding my eye site no matter how many times I have tried to watch the "silent scream over the years, I can never see the whole flim. I watched 5 of my own die not from abortion. I pity the unloved babies dying in such a horific way. May their souls rest in peace.
I doubt if any of them watch it but if one does and maybe it makes him or her think about the barbaric act of murder in the womb I will be happy........
 

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I ahve already watched it several times in the past. It has already shown to be so full of tricks and deception that it is nothing but dishonest propaganda. Just more prolife lies.

What exactly is it you think I should get out of it? What I aprticularly noted was the deceptions, the changes in film speed, the false, outright lying narration and so on. In fact, what stood out was the glaring dishonesty, the evidence of just another prolife lying deception just like all the other.
 
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Navy Pride

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steen said:
I ahve already watched it several times in the past. It has already shown to be so full of tricks and deception that it is nothing but dishonest propaganda. Just more prolife lies.

What exactly is it you think I should get out of it? What I aprticularly noted was the deceptions, the changes in film speed, the false, outright lying narration and so on. In fact, what stood out was the glaring dishonesty, the evidence of just another prolife lying deception just like all the other.
I really did not post it for you to watch.........I posted it for people that might be pro abortion/choice that might have some doubts about murder in the womb......
 

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Navy Pride said:
I really did not post it for you to watch.........I posted it for people that might be pro abortion/choice that might have some doubts about murder in the womb......
:spin: Ah, so you are hoping that lies may convince them? yes, I would expect nothing less from you.:doh
 
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steen said:
:spin: Ah, so you are hoping that lies may convince them? yes, I would expect nothing less from you.:doh
As I recall the doctor in the flim was a prime mover to get abortion made legal. Yes or No steen? Why did he switch sides???? no spin No Lies just the truth.
 

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Navy Pride said:
I personally invite any of my pro abortion or pro choice friends to check out this web site and this film
Actually...you did invite him....and me. I have seen it as well, but watched it again at your request, knowing I would not enjoy it. I do wonder at the intent of the thread though...if you actually dont want us to click the link?
 

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Oh...and here is the flip side of the tape:

Medical Inaccuracies in The Silent Scream

Claim:
The 12-week fetus experiences pain.

Facts:
At this stage of the pregnancy, the brain and nervous system are still in a very early stage of development. The beginnings of the brain stem, which includes a rudimentary thalamus and spinal cord, is being formed. Most brain cells are not developed. Without a cerebral cortex (gray matter covering the brain), pain impulses cannot be received or perceived. Additionally, experts find that newborns at 26–27 weeks' gestation (24–25 weeks' fetal age) who survive have significantly less response to pain than do full term newborns.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

Statement on Pain of the Fetus
We know of no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement that a fetus experiences pain early in pregnancy.

We do know that the cerebellum attains its final configuration in the seventh month and that mylenization (or covering) of the spinal cord and the brain begins between the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy. These, as well as other neurological developments, would have to be in place for the fetus to receive pain.

To feel pain, a fetus needs neurotransmitted hormones. In animals, these complex chemicals develop in the last third of gestation. We know of no evidence that humans are different.

Claim:
The 12-week fetus makes purposeful movements (e.g., agitated movement in an attempt to avoid suction cannula).

Facts:
At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case.

An example of the reflex withdrawal without pain occurs in an anencephalic (absent brain) newborn. Another known example of the reflex movement at this stage of human pregnancy is thumb sucking in utero.

What is termed "frantic activity" by the fetus is a reflex response of the fetus resulting from movement of the uterus and its contents induced by operator manipulation of the suction curette or the ultrasound transducer on the abdomen. This same type of response would likely occur with any external stimulus. A one-cell organism such as an amoeba will reflexively move or display a withdrawal reaction when touched.

In addition, experts in ultrasonography and film technology have concluded that the videotape of the abortion was deliberately slowed down and subsequently speeded up to create an impression of hyperactivity.

Claim:
Ultrasonogram depicts the open mouth of the fetus.

Facts:
The mouth of the fetus cannot be identified in the ultrasound image with certainty. The statement that the screen identifies the open mouth of the fetus is a subjective and misleading interpretation by Dr. Nathanson. His conclusion is not supportable.

Claim:
The fetus emits "The Silent Scream."

Facts:
A scream cannot occur without air in the lungs. Although primitive respiratory movements do occur in the later stages of gestation, crying or screaming cannot occur even then. In fact, a child born prematurely at 26–27 weeks' gestation (24–25 weeks' fetal age) cannot scream but occasionally emits weak cries.

Claim:
A fetus is indistinguishable from any of the rest of us.

Facts:
A fetus of 12 weeks cannot in any way be compared to a fully formed functioning person. At this stage only rudiments of the organ systems are present. The fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman's womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing. It is instead an in utero fetus with the potential of becoming a child.

Claim:
Fetal head at 12 weeks requires the use of "crushing instruments" for extraction.

Facts:
At 12 weeks' gestation (10 weeks' fetal age) and even 1–2 weeks beyond, instrumentation other than a suction cannula is not required when abortion is properly performed. Cannulas for aspiration abortion come in varying sizes, and the larger sizes are adequate for withdrawing the contents of the uterus.

Misleading Statements, Exaggerations and Innuendoes in The Silent Scream

Claim:
"Brain waves have existed for six weeks" in the fetus displayed on the screen.

Expert Opinion:
Although some electrical impulses have been recorded as early as 10 weeks' gestation, these cannot be interpreted as or compared with brain waves. Genuine brain waves do not occur until the third trimester.

Claim:
Fetal heart rate rose from 140 to 200, which is abnormally high and reflective of fetal response to "imminent mortal danger."

Expert Opinion:
The heart rate of the fetus portrayed in the film does not change significantly at any time. Nevertheless, a fetal heart rate of 200 is within the normal range (normal 180–200 beats per minute) for this stage of pregnancy. It is also unlikely that the fetus had a heart rate of 140 that rose to 200. A rate of 140 is generally noted in the latter half of pregnancy.

Claim:
The large, well-developed fetal model intermittently picked up and displayed during the narrative of the abortion procedure is representative of a 12-week fetus.

Expert Opinion:
The fetal model displayed during the abortion procedure is much larger than a fetus of a 12 weeks' gestation model visualized by ultrasonography. The model compared in size to a fetus of 18 weeks' gestation (about 14cm or 5½" in crown-rump length [CRL]) as opposed to a fetus of 12 weeks gestation (about 6cm or 2½" in CRL). Such an inaccurate comparison is invalid.

Claim:
Many women who have an abortion suffer severe and lasting psychological damage.

Expert Opinion:
Serious emotional problems following abortion are uncommon. Most women report a sense of relief, although some may experience temporary depression. Serious psychological disturbances after abortion occur less frequently than after childbirth.

Claim:
There were 100,000 illegal abortions annually in the US in 1963.

Expert Opinion:
100,000 illegal abortions is considered by experts to be an underestimation. Although there are no accurate data on the number of illegal abortions prior to its legal performance, Dr. Christopher Tietze, a demographer who was known worldwide for the scientific quality of his work, estimated that in 1963, the numbers ranged between 200,000 and 1,200,000. It is generally believed that the figure was closer to the higher level, and has risen little since abortion was legalized (currently about 1,500,000). In 1963, only those botched abortions having serious complications requiring hospitalization could be counted. Without a legal requirement for reporting, there are no accurate estimations as to what percentage of the degrading, dangerous, illegal abortions was successful without such complications.

Claim:
The crime syndicate is heavily involved in the abortion industry today.

Expert Opinion:
There is nothing to prove or even suggest that the crime syndicate is currently involved in the provision of abortion services. However, it is a well-known fact that organized crime was heavily involved with illegal abortion. The high cost of illegal abortion made it lucrative for underworld elements. In the 1960s, illegal abortions cost from $750 to several thousand dollars. Considering inflation rates over the past 20 years, the cost of illegal abortions now would be more than triple that of the 1960s. Today [1985] the average cost for a first-trimester abortion is $200.

Claim:
Quoting from Williams' Obstetrics, the fetus is amenable to intrauterine therapy and is to be considered as a second patient.

Expert Opinion:
The statement in Williams Obstetrics text is true and intended to stimulate further interest and research in fetal and maternal relationships so as to improve the health of the mother and the autonomous newborn. However, in the film presentation, Dr. Nathanson focuses only on the fetus, totally ignoring the pregnant woman, who is the first patient and the thrust of the text. He misconstrues Williams' statement and implies that Williams considers the fetus the primary patient — an unacceptable premise under any circumstances.

Questions and Other Problems

Question:
Does a first-trimester abortion take so long to perform? It seemed to go on for a very extended period of time.

Answer:
No, an uncomplicated first-trimester abortion usually takes less than ten minutes to perform.

Question:
Is it appropriate to refer to a fetus as unborn child, with the same right as other human beings?

Answer:
No. Constitutionally, a fetus has no rights of personhood. Most legal precedent in English law attributes personhood to the live born.

Question:
The film generates sympathy for the fetus. What about the woman who needs an abortion? She is conspicuously absent from the film.

Answer:
The film ignores the plight of the woman seeking abortion and instead tries to shift the focus to the fetus. It is essential that this defect of the film be placed in correct perspective by reminding people of the horrors to which women were subjected when abortion was illegal, the fact that current contraceptive methods fail, as well as the critical situations that can occur in a women's life which lead her to seek and obtain an abortion.




 

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tecoyah said:
Actually...you did invite him....and me. I have seen it as well, but watched it again at your request, knowing I would not enjoy it. I do wonder at the intent of the thread though...if you actually dont want us to click the link?
From what I have seen on your posts it would be useless for me to try and convince you what a barbaric, horrible unnecessary act abortion is so why try........I am just hoping there might be someone on the fence on the issue and maybe if they watch the film and decide that pro life is the right way then I will be happy...Maybe it might be a female who might of had and abortion but won't now after viewing the film................

If one person changes their mind it would be worth it to me to hear the naysayers like you......
 

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Navy Pride said:
From what I have seen on your posts it would be useless for me to try and convince you what a barbaric, horrible unnecessary act abortion is so why try........I am just hoping there might be someone on the fence on the issue and maybe if they watch the film and decide that pro life is the right way then I will be happy...Maybe it might be a female who might of had and abortion but won't now after viewing the film................

If one person changes their mind it would be worth it to me to hear the naysayers like you......

I know...I am well aware of your passionate support of your own opinion....just wanted you to say it....heh. It is interesting that you still consider me Pro-Abortion though, as it either means you pay no attention to what I write, or you are unable to comprehend the difference between Pro choice....and Pro abortion.

I have to go with the later
 

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tecoyah said:
I know...I am well aware of your passionate support of your own opinion....just wanted you to say it....heh. It is interesting that you still consider me Pro-Abortion though, as it either means you pay no attention to what I write, or you are unable to comprehend the difference between Pro choice....and Pro abortion.

I have to go with the later
I know what you wrote about you and your wife (More info then I needed) last night but I believe if you condone other people having unnecessary abortions then there is no way you can be pro life.............
 
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February 13, 1984

President Ronald Reagan

The White House

Washington, DC

Mr. President:
As physicians, we, the undersigned, are pleased to associate ourselves with you in drawing the attention of people across
the nation to the humanity and sensitivity of the human unborn.
That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the newborn of the
human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning,
individual organism is established scientific fact. That the
human unborn and newly born do respond to stimuli is also
established beyond any reasonable doubt.
The ability to feel pain and respond to it is clearly not a
phenomenon that develops de novo at birth. Indeed, much of
enlightened modern obstetrical practice and procedure seeks to
minimize sensory deprivation of, and sensory insult to, the fetus during, at, and after birth. Over the last 18 years, real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have
demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus
to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changesin light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to
taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering
work of the late Sir William Liley -- the father of fetology.Observations of the fetal electrocardiogram and the increase in fetal movements in saline abortions indicate that the fetus
experiences discomfort as it dies. Indeed, one doctor who, the New York Times wrote, "conscientiously performs" saline abortions stated, "When you inject the saline, you often see anincrease in fetal movements, it's horrible."
We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale University. In "The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of the Human Mind" (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient, moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of his psychosomatic self is well under way."
Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground.
Respectfully,
Dr. Richard T. F. Schmidt, Past President, A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn,University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH
Dr. Vincent Collins, Professor of Anesthesiology, Northwestern University,University of Illinois Medical Center
Dr. John G. Masterson, Clinical Professor of Ob/Gyn, Northwestern University
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, F.A.C.O.G., Clinical Assistant Professor of Ob/Gyn,Cornell University
Dr. Denis Cavanaugh, F.A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of South Florida
Dr. Watson Bowes, F.A.C.O.G., Professor of Material and Fetal Medicine,University of North Carolina
Dr. Byron Oberst, Assistant Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, University of Nebraska
Dr. Eugene Diamond, Professor of Pediatrics, Strict School of Medicine,Chicago, IL
Dr. Thomas Potter, Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, New Jersey Medical College
Dr. Lawrence Dunegan, Instructor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of
Pittsburgh
Dr. Melvin Thornton, Professor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of Texas (San Antonio)
Dr. Norman Vernig, Assistant Professor of Pediatrics, University of Minnesota(St. Paul)
Dr. Jerome Shen, Clinical Professor of Pediatrics, St. Louis University
Dr. Fred Hofmeister, Past President, A.C.O.G., Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of Wisconsin (Milwaukee)
Dr. Matthew Bulfin, F.A.C.O.G., Lauderdale by the Sea, FL
Dr. Jay Arena, Professor Emeritus of Pediatrics, Duke University
Dr. Herbert Nakata, Assistant Professor of Clinical Pediatrics, University of Hawaii
Dr. Robert Polley, Clinical Instructor of Pediatrics, University of Washington(Seattle)
Dr. David Foley, Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of Wisconsin (Milwaukee)
Dr. Anne Bannon, F.A.A.P., Former Chief of Pediatrics, City Hospital (St.Louis)
Dr. John J. Brennan, Professor of Ob/Gyn, Medical College of Wisconsin,(Milwaukee)
Dr. Walter F. Watts, Assistant Professor of Ob/Gyn, Strict School of Medicine,Chicago, IL
Dr. G. C. Tom Nabors, Assistant Clinical Professor of Ob/Gyn, Southwestern Medical College, Dallas, TX
Dr. Konald Prem, Professor of Ob/Gyn, University of Minnesota (Minneapolis)
Dr. Alfred Derby, F.A.C.O.G., Spokane, WA
Dr. Bernie Pisani, F.A.C.O.G., President, NY State Medical Society, Professor of Ob/Gyn, New York University
 

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JP, You know pro abortion/choice people have to keep telling theirselves that the baby in the womb is nothing more then a clump of cells...........Some it would not matter to if they found out they were wrong but there are some caring people that if they found out they were wrong all these years about when life begins how horrible it would be for them....We can't begin to imagine how they would feel............

A lot of women who have had abortions have felt it and never got over what they did...........
 

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Navy Pride said:
I know what you wrote about you and your wife (More info then I needed) last night but I believe if you condone other people having unnecessary abortions then there is no way you can be pro life.............
I would never claim to be Pro Life....and never have. As this means I wish to interfere with the lives of others....as you do. Please...never expect anyone who appreciates civil liberty to associate themselves with that label.

Sadly...you will likely never understand the position I hold in this debate....which is all I had hoped to convey.....whatever.
 

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Navy Pride said:
JP, You know pro abortion/choice people have to keep telling theirselves that the baby in the womb is nothing more then a clump of cells...........Some it would not matter to if they found out they were wrong but there are some caring people that if they found out they were wrong all these years about when life begins how horrible it would be for them....We can't begin to imagine how they would feel............

A lot of women who have had abortions have felt it and never got over what they did...........

I must say...it is sad how you obviously wish for pain and regret on these women .....honestly, even if I decided to be active against abortion....people like yourself would prevent me from acting on it.....freakin disgusting.
 

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tecoyah said:
I would never claim to be Pro Life....and never have. As this means I wish to interfere with the lives of others....as you do. Please...never expect anyone who appreciates civil liberty to associate themselves with that label.

Sadly...you will likely never understand the position I hold in this debate....which is all I had hoped to convey.....whatever.
I would never interfere with someones life........I just want women to have all the facts when they decide to have and abortion and yes if I was asked I would gladly tell them what I know..............I have known women who have had abortions and they only got one side of the issue from the abortion clinic......

over 40,000,000 abortions since 1972...think about it for just a minute.........the figures are staggering.......
 

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tecoyah said:
I must say...it is sad how you obviously wish for pain and regret on these women .....honestly, even if I decided to be active against abortion....people like yourself would prevent me from acting on it.....freakin disgusting.
Sleep well tonight my friend. in your thinking of your goody two shoes liberal attitude.......its nothing just a glob of cells..not worth the time of day..........

Talk about disgusting......
 

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Navy Pride said:
From what I have seen on your posts it would be useless for me to try and convince you what a barbaric, horrible unnecessary act abortion is so why try........I am just hoping there might be someone on the fence on the issue and maybe if they watch the film and decide that pro life is the right way then I will be happy...Maybe it might be a female who might of had and abortion but won't now after viewing the film................

If one person changes their mind it would be worth it to me to hear the naysayers like you......
You call him a naysayer and yet you didn't address a single one of the facts he presented. Why is that?
 

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Navy Pride said:
I would never interfere with someones life........I just want women to have all the facts when they decide to have and abortion and yes if I was asked I would gladly tell them what I know..............I have known women who have had abortions and they only got one side of the issue from the abortion clinic......

over 40,000,000 abortions since 1972...think about it for just a minute.........the figures are staggering.......
Yeah it is. It's staggering that we could have 40 MILLION more people in the US who started life as unwanted children. Which, as I'm sure you are aware, does not make for a very happy life.
 

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Navy Pride said:
Sleep well tonight my friend. in your thinking of your goody two shoes liberal attitude.......its nothing just a glob of cells..not worth the time of day..........

Talk about disgusting......

Deleted...as it was inappropriate, and below my standards....My apology
 
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Kelzie said:
Yeah it is. It's staggering that we could have 40 MILLION more people in the US who started life as unwanted children. Which, as I'm sure you are aware, does not make for a very happy life.

That is crap and you know it..........There are long waiting lists of people who want to adopt new borns.......I have friends that waited 5 years and finally settled for a baby from South Korea.........

Try again Kelzie.........That argument does not wash.........
 

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Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:
As I recall the doctor in the flim was a prime mover to get abortion made legal. Yes or No steen? Why did he switch sides???? no spin No Lies just the truth.
Why he switched? Who knows. But it IS known that he then turned to outright lies and decetpion, and prolife have gone that route ever since. (See Tecoya's post for a sample of the lies Nathanson spewed in that film.)
 

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Kelzie said:
You call him a naysayer and yet you didn't address a single one of the facts he presented. Why is that?
I don't have to address his points.......There are certain people you can't get throug to no matter how hard you try..........I am talking to the people on the fence.........
 

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Navy Pride said:
That is crap and you know it..........There are long waiting lists of people who want to adopt new borns.......I have friends that waited 5 years and finally settled for a baby from South Korea.........

Try again Kelzie.........That argument does not wash.........
But it ain't 40 million of them. Try again.
 
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