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Shutdown the Government over tax cuts and/or Iraq

Would you have supported Pelosi's shutdown?

  • Yes, Tax Cuts Only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, Iraq Only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

obvious Child

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Would you have supported Pelosi if back in 2005 (as a recent Slate article hypothetically discusses), if she and the Democrats tried to shutdown the government to force Bush to agree to rollback his tax cuts and/or pull out of Iraq (which was also costing us billions daily)?
 
Would you have supported Pelosi if back in 2005 (as a recent Slate article hypothetically discusses), if she and the Democrats tried to shutdown the government to force Bush to agree to rollback his tax cuts and/or pull out of Iraq (which was also costing us billions daily)?

I might have IF they brought a reasonable alternative to the table. The Bush tax cuts were outrageous, a fast payoff to his supporters. Lets say Pelosi offered a more balanced concept, accepting cuts but gearing them more to the middle class and lower instead of giving the biggest gifts to the wealthy and been more modest overall. But if it was all or nothing, no, I wouldn't like that. There are better strategies than (the overly complex) called Obamacare that would still enhance the system, make medical care more rational. I'm not hearing anything being proposed. This all or nothing approach is kind of lame.

Personally, I'm not affected one iota if they shut down for 10 years. But it's kind of embarrassing to be an American right now. This degree of radicalization is not at all healthy.
 
I might have IF they brought a reasonable alternative to the table. The Bush tax cuts were outrageous, a fast payoff to his supporters. Lets say Pelosi offered a more balanced concept, accepting cuts but gearing them more to the middle class and lower instead of giving the biggest gifts to the wealthy and been more modest overall. But if it was all or nothing, no, I wouldn't like that. There are better strategies than (the overly complex) called Obamacare that would still enhance the system, make medical care more rational. I'm not hearing anything being proposed. This all or nothing approach is kind of lame.

Personally, I'm not affected one iota if they shut down for 10 years. But it's kind of embarrassing to be an American right now. This degree of radicalization is not at all healthy.


The thing is what reasonable alternative have the Republicans put on the table to replace AHA. Its been 5 years these dumbasses should have thought of something. Oh yeah the were questioning the Presidents birth certificate
 
The thing is what reasonable alternative have the Republicans put on the table to replace AHA. Its been 5 years these dumbasses should have thought of something. Oh yeah the were questioning the Presidents birth certificate
I Googled "Republican alternative" and "Republican alternative to Obamacare" came right up! And guess what? The 3rd link down showed this:
Republican Alternative to Obamacare Relies on Repeal - NationalJournal.com

I see that you are new to the board. Generally, it's smart to research any counter points prior to posting. I've actually learned a lot about our gov't from doing that. Don't just take what "news" stations tell you as gospel. Many of them, including Fox, are partisan.

In my opinion, there is a legitimate alternative to Obamacare. Pres Obama forced this bill down our (Americans) throat by seizing the opportunity that there was a Democrat majority in the House and Senate. He made it a huge priority because he knew he had a limited window to do it. Do you really believe the ACA would pass now? Or even be presented? No, it wouldn't. That's why many people hate it. It felt like a backdoor move.
 
I Googled "Republican alternative" and "Republican alternative to Obamacare" came right up! And guess what? The 3rd link down showed this:
Republican Alternative to Obamacare Relies on Repeal - NationalJournal.com

I see that you are new to the board. Generally, it's smart to research any counter points prior to posting. I've actually learned a lot about our gov't from doing that. Don't just take what "news" stations tell you as gospel. Many of them, including Fox, are partisan.

In my opinion, there is a legitimate alternative to Obamacare. Pres Obama forced this bill down our (Americans) throat by getting a majority in the House and Senate. He made it a huge priority because he knew he had a limited window to do it. Do you really believe the ACA would pass now? Or even be presented? No, it wouldn't. That's why many people hate it. It felt like a backdoor move.

Transaltion I have nothing to offer!! What is the Republican plan to replace AHA.
 
In my opinion, there is a legitimate alternative to Obamacare. Pres Obama forced this bill down our (Americans) throat by seizing the opportunity that there was a Democrat majority in the House and Senate. He made it a huge priority because he knew he had a limited window to do it. Do you really believe the ACA would pass now? Or even be presented? No, it wouldn't. That's why many people hate it. It felt like a backdoor move.

Yes, he did, and yes, that's what you do as President. Bush thought he had a similar opportunity, but the problem was he did not. I thought they moved too quickly, but I also understood the timetable that they had to work with. Furthermore, while it is probable that you could not pass the ACA as it stands now, you would also be in the right to make the point that it would be difficult to pass most substantive bills in the legislative branch now.
 
Would you have supported Pelosi if back in 2005 (as a recent Slate article hypothetically discusses), if she and the Democrats tried to shutdown the government to force Bush to agree to rollback his tax cuts and/or pull out of Iraq (which was also costing us billions daily)?

Why is shutting down the government a bad political option. If congress and the president cant agree on a budget, shutdown seems logical. What is the big deal?
 
Transaltion I have nothing to offer!! What is the Republican plan to replace AHA.
A) You had no time to read the article I attached.
B) If you aren't going to listen to the other side, why attempt to debate?
C) I'm done talking with you.
 
Yes, he did, and yes, that's what you do as President. Bush thought he had a similar opportunity, but the problem was he did not. Furthermore, while it is probable that you could not pass the ACA as it stands now, you would also be in the right to make the point that it would be difficult to pass most substantive bills in the legislative branch now.
So because Bush did it, it's okay? No way man. Im so sick of hearing "Well Bush did it". If he sucked so bad, why do people keep giving Pres Obama a break when he does something Bush did?
 
Why is shutting down the government a bad political option. If congress and the president cant agree on a budget, shutdown seems logical. What is the big deal?

Bad for our credit rating
Bad for confidence in our system
Bad for the millions who aren't getting paid
Bad for the millions who depend on the services we just shut down
Bad for our wallets as it's costing billions in interest.
 
A) You had no time to read the article I attached.
B) If you aren't going to listen to the other side, why attempt to debate?
C) I'm done talking with you.

Republicans have not offered anything to replace AHA they had five years to do it and have done nothing. You are extremly blind!
 
In my opinion, there is a legitimate alternative to Obamacare.

Really? Did you actually read it?

How does it cut down on the freeloaders who are stealing insurance dollars?
How would individual markets even remotely provide reasonable insurance for those with preexisting conditions?
How would tax credits function for those who don't have net federal tax?

The whole notion of insurance competition doesn't work when the pricing issues for medical care are extremely not transparent.

Car insurance worked because there was never a brick wall between consumers and providers in information free flow on how much things actually cost. The GOP plan never deals with the core problem of our health care system.
 
Bad for our credit rating
Bad for confidence in our system
Bad for the millions who aren't getting paid
Bad for the millions who depend on the services we just shut down
Bad for our wallets as it's costing billions in interest.
Our credit rating wont change, no one is losing confidence in our system, ok, so some people may not get paid for a couple of days, so what? That is good news for the taxpayer. What services that people depend upon have been shut down? And how is it costing us anything in interest?
 
So because Bush did it, it's okay? No way man. Im so sick of hearing "Well Bush did it". If he sucked so bad, why do people keep giving Pres Obama a break when he does something Bush did?

I think you're misreading me. I'm stating that the model of having the President take advantage of an electoral victory to push through legislation it finds important is just what's going to happen, and they know they have a limited amount of time to do it before it will likely get bogged down and killed. Hence, my statement about Bush's plan for social security, despite my hesitation with it, was more or less empathetic with that strategy.
 
I Googled "Republican alternative" and "Republican alternative to Obamacare" came right up! And guess what? The 3rd link down showed this:
Republican Alternative to Obamacare Relies on Repeal - NationalJournal.com

I see that you are new to the board. Generally, it's smart to research any counter points prior to posting. I've actually learned a lot about our gov't from doing that. Don't just take what "news" stations tell you as gospel. Many of them, including Fox, are partisan.

In my opinion, there is a legitimate alternative to Obamacare. Pres Obama forced this bill down our (Americans) throat by seizing the opportunity that there was a Democrat majority in the House and Senate. He made it a huge priority because he knew he had a limited window to do it. Do you really believe the ACA would pass now? Or even be presented? No, it wouldn't. That's why many people hate it. It felt like a backdoor move.

Too late. Really? Create a proposal at the 11th hour so that it can't be debated and passed in the same bill as the repeal. Republicans are too focused on being partisan to do any actual governing. It is unfortunate, because right now they are just destroyers, saboteurs and obstructionists. They weren't always so. They were once a creative force in the political scene. They simply deserve to be marginalized now until they can learn to govern.
 
Our credit rating wont change

You sure? We got a downgrade last time on the debt ceiling show down primarily because the GOP was acting like children. Read the downgrade report. Republican Legislators are blasted by the rating agency.

no one is losing confidence in our system

What makes you think that? Have you read the foreign views on this?

ok, so some people may not get paid for a couple of days, so what?

How about people who are on tight budgets? How about people who have to make debt payments? How about the businesses who rely on those people? Everyone tightens their wallets and we all starve.

That is good news for the taxpayer.

No, it's not. They have to be paid anyways. And it will cost us more.

What services that people depend upon have been shut down? And how is it costing us anything in interest?

National parks, health/food inspections, immigration, SBA for instance.

My bad, it's not interest. It's economic activity:

White House rejects latest Republican offer to end shutdown | TheGazette
 
The big problem with the Bush tax cuts was the Iraq war. Normally if a country goes to war all citizens are asked to sacrifice, People should have had a tax hike to help support the war effort. Instead we had a war that didn't effect anyones lives except thos unfortunate enough to have to fight it.

Sure the American population was willing to stick a 'support our troops' bumber sticker on the car. They would give standing ovations to troops at sporting events and parades. It is easy to support the troops and the war if it doesn't cost you anything. Not only did the Iraq war not demand any sacrifice from the citizens. The government decided to celebrate the sacrifices made by the few by giving tax breaks to the faithful.

Combining those two things, war and a tax break, was the height of imoral behaviour. And it happened with nary a whisper, from the opposition or the press.
 
I think you're misreading me. I'm stating that the model of having the President take advantage of an electoral victory to push through legislation it finds important is just what's going to happen, and they know they have a limited amount of time to do it before it will likely get bogged down and killed. Hence, my statement about Bush's plan for social security, despite my hesitation with it, was more or less empathetic with that strategy.
Gotcha. The Bush thing was aimed more at the masses than you anyway. I've been hearing that a lot lately.
 
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