Should we replace confederate statues with those of slaves?

[Nilly]

There are 1503 monuments in the south dedicated to confederate leaders. Ten US bases named for confederate officers - one that honours the leader of the KKK in Georgia.

Why then - if we are so interested in preserving history - do we not have statues abound of black liberation figures?

Read a very interesting tweet thread about this issue today and wanted to share it. Twitter - Link to full tweet thread

Here's the most outrageous part about people arguing Confederate statues should stay up to "remember our history and heritage".

When was the last time you ever saw a statue, a plaque, ANYTHING to honor the "history and heritage" of Black slaves in Antebellum?

Vox - I'm a black Southerner. I had to go abroad to see a statue celebrating black liberation.

Many other countries have statues memorializing the victory of these slaves in their emancipation. These people, those who led slave revolts, those who were born slaves but died free men and women, were arguably amongst the bravest of Americans to have lived, quite literally fighting for freedom, not from taxation, like the founding fathers, but from a life of servitude.

So my question to you is, should we raise statues of free'd slaves? Should we replace confederate statues with them? Or should we put statues of slaves up alongside the confederate ones? Or should we not put statues of slaves up at all - in which case, if you are a proponent of keeping confederate statues - how genuine is your desire to 'preserve history' anyway?

The Guardian - America must build statues against slavery and racism. It can start with these.

 

[Nilly]

I would also like to add a reminder that the message in the quoted tweet thread is not my own and I'm not here to specifically defend it. I agree with much but not necessarily all of it.

I would also add that there are places where monuments to black liberation exist, they are however, far outnumbered by the amount of confederate statues. The vox article in the OP talks about this a little:

In 1739, an enslaved Central African man named Jemmy led the Stono Rebellion — the largest slave uprising in colonial American history. Starting in South Carolina, Jemmy recruited, organized, and armed up to 100 freedom fighters. Together, they marched toward refuge in Florida carrying banners and chanting, “Liberty!” — “lukango” in their native language Kikongo. They burned six plantations and fought off white militias for a week before the rebellion was ended. Jemmy was killed, but some of his followers are thought to have made it to Florida.

Today there is a lone sign propped up amid the grassy fields of South Carolina to bear witness to the Stono Rebellion. It does not mention Jemmy by name. Why are there so many monuments in America celebrating traitors like Jefferson Davis and so few celebrating heroes like Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, and Jemmy? Even the US Capitol has at least three times as many statues of Confederate figures as it does of black people. Confederate statues celebrate racism, but the ideology of white supremacy not only venerates oppressors — it also erases the stories and sacrifices of those who dared to resist.

It erases the stories of enslaved black people who, despite the most oppressive circumstances, managed to lead as many as 313 rebellions. It tells us that Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, but not that 200,000 black soldiers — many formerly enslaved — fought to make emancipation a reality. This erasure robs us of a rich legacy of resistance to draw upon when confronting the oppression of today.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

There are 1503 monuments in the south dedicated to confederate leaders. Ten US bases named for confederate officers - one that honours the leader of the KKK in Georgia.

Why then - if we are so interested in preserving history - do we not have statues abound of black liberation figures?

Read a very interesting tweet thread about this issue today and wanted to share it. Twitter



Vox - I'm a black Southerner. I had to go abroad to see a statue celebrating black liberation.

Many other countries have statues memorializing the victory of these slaves in their emancipation. These people, those who led slave revolts, those who were born slaves but died free men and women, were arguably amongst the bravest of Americans to have lived, quite literally fighting for freedom, not from taxation, like the founding fathers, but from a life of servitude.

So my question to you is, should we raise statues of free'd slaves? Should we replace confederate statues with them? Or should we put statues of slaves up alongside the confederate ones? Or should we not put statues of slaves up at all - in which case, if you are a proponent of keeping confederate statues - how genuine is your desire to 'preserve history' anyway?

The Guardian - America must build statues against slavery and racism. It can start with these:

I've already voiced my opinion elsewhere mirroring exactly what that tweet says. If they want to preserve history, the best common ground is to put up monuments to libertarians. Celebrate what we achieved, not give participation trophies for a failed rebellion.

 

[Hawkeye10]

We celebrate the victims now, but sure, those who service the victims are worthy too.

 

[apdst]

Memorializing someone for being a slave? That's crazy.

 

[Nilly]

Memorializing someone for being a slave? That's crazy.

The question also concerns black liberation figures in general (as you can see in the poll). Some suggestions from the article in OP about who could be memorialized.

In Mississippi Adelbert Ames, the last Reconstruction governor driven from office by a violent coup of the White Liners; Emmett Till, the 14-year-old lynched in 1955; James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Mickey Schwerner, the civil rights workers slain in 1964. Fannie Lou Hamer of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. In Florida: Harry T Moore, head of the NAACP, assassinated in 1951.

In North Carolina: Albion Tourgée, jurist and lawyer, who fought for Reconstruction and challenged segregation in Plessy v Ferguson; Ella Baker, who trained people to register to vote; the four students who staged the Greensboro sit-in in 1960.

In South Carolina: Sarah and Angelina Grimké, abolitionists and feminists.

In Georgia: Julian Bond.

In Alabama: at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, why not full-scale statues of the marchers who were brutally attacked by police? Virginia Durr, who arranged for Rosa Parks to be trained as a civil rights worker, and her husband Clifford Durr, civil rights attorney.

In Louisiana: why not build a monument to one Confederate general, James Longstreet, who became a hated man to the lost cause movement for leading US troops in the streets of New Orleans to defend Reconstruction against the White Leaguers?

 

[apdst]

Some suggestions from the article in OP about who could be memorialized.

In Mississippi Adelbert Ames, the last Reconstruction governor driven from office by a violent coup of the White Liners; Emmett Till, the 14-year-old lynched in 1955; James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Mickey Schwerner, the civil rights workers slain in 1964. Fannie Lou Hamer of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. In Florida: Harry T Moore, head of the NAACP, assassinated in 1951.

In North Carolina: Albion Tourgée, jurist and lawyer, who fought for Reconstruction and challenged segregation in Plessy v Ferguson; Ella Baker, who trained people to register to vote; the four students who staged the Greensboro sit-in in 1960.

In South Carolina: Sarah and Angelina Grimké, abolitionists and feminists.

In Georgia: Julian Bond.

In Alabama: at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, why not full-scale statues of the marchers who were brutally attacked by police? Virginia Durr, who arranged for Rosa Parks to be trained as a civil rights worker, and her husband Clifford Durr, civil rights attorney.

In Louisiana: why not build a monument to one Confederate general, James Longstreet, who became a hated man to the lost cause movement for leading US troops in the streets of New Orleans to defend Reconstruction against the White Leaguers?

Adelbert Ames had his unit wiped out at Fredericksburg. He's a loser. No monuments to losers.

Besides, he was appointed governer, not elected. A monument to Ames would be a slap in the face to Southerners, which I know is your objective, but aren't we looking for unity?

 

[Nilly]

Adelbert Ames had his unit wiped out at Fredericksburg. He's a loser. No monuments to losers.

Besides, he was appointed governer, not elected. A monument to Ames would be a slap in the face to Southerners, which I know is your objective, but aren't we looking for unity?

Ok that's fine, the people in the article are only suggestions. My question is more generally about 'black liberation figures' rather than specific people.

 

[apdst]

Ok that's fine, the people in the article are only suggestions. My question is more generally about 'black liberation figures' rather than specific people.

How about Hiram Revels? He was the first black U.S. Senator.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

Adelbert Ames had his unit wiped out at Fredericksburg. He's a loser. No monuments to losers.

Besides, he was appointed governer, not elected. A monument to Ames would be a slap in the face to Southerners, which I know is your objective, but aren't we looking for unity?

You mean like the ones that are up now?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

He's a loser. No monuments to losers.

I never expected you to come around and support the removal of all of the confederate statues in America, glad to see you can be super reasonable from time to time.

 

[apdst]

I never expected you to come around and support the removal of all of the confederate statues in America, glad to see you can be super reasonable from time to time.

I'm definately not surprised that you would take my post out of context and put words into my mouth.

 

[Nilly]

How about Hiram Revels? He was the first black U.S. Senator.

I don't know enough about him to know. Again, my question is more general - would you like to see statues of black emancipation figures? And should those take the place of confederate statues or stand along side them?

When it comes to choosing specific people, my preference would be to defer to the black community, rather than make those decisions myself. It's their ancestors, after all.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

I'm definately not surprised that you would take my post out of context and put words into my mouth.

Can't put words in your mouth, it's full of your foot...

 

[apdst]

I don't know enough about him to know. Again, my question is more general - would you like to see statues of black emancipation figures? And should those take the place of confederate statues or stand along side them?

When it comes to choosing specific people, my preference would be to defer to the black community, rather than make those decisions myself. It's their ancestors, after all.

He was the first black senator. Whatelse is there to know?

These are monuments to America, not the black community.

 

[Harshaw]

If someone wants to put them up, go for it. Not sure why the question has to be tied to that of Confederate statues, or why the presence of one negates the other, let alone the idea of "replacing" one with the other. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea, period.

It's a big country. There's lots of room for statues of all kinds, depicting all sorts. If you want 'em, put 'em up. If you don't, don't.

 

[apdst]

Can't put words in your mouth, it's full of your foot...

Another insult...no surprise there, either.

 

[KevinKohler]

Why not both.

Two statues facing each other. A statue of Lee, and his accomplishments, goof and bad. Which is already there. Or not Lee, whatever confederate statue that's already there, just leave it up. Opposing that statue, one of black liberation figures. Harriet Tubman, anyone? Founder of the Underground Railroad.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I'm definately not surprised that you would take my post out of context and put words into my mouth.

You said no monuments for losers, what's to take out of context? Are you saying some losers need monuments or do you agree that the confederate statues need to go?

Why not both.

Two statues facing each other. A statue of Lee, and his accomplishments, goof and bad. Which is already there. Or not Lee, whatever confederate statue that's already there, just leave it up. Opposing that statue, one of black liberation figures. Harriet Tubman, anyone? Founder of the Underground Railroad.

Sure, let's just litter every court house in the south with a dozen different statues.

 

[Lutherf]

There are 1503 monuments in the south dedicated to confederate leaders. Ten US bases named for confederate officers - one that honours the leader of the KKK in Georgia.

Why then - if we are so interested in preserving history - do we not have statues abound of black liberation figures?

Read a very interesting tweet thread about this issue today and wanted to share it. Twitter



Vox - I'm a black Southerner. I had to go abroad to see a statue celebrating black liberation.

Many other countries have statues memorializing the victory of these slaves in their emancipation. These people, those who led slave revolts, those who were born slaves but died free men and women, were arguably amongst the bravest of Americans to have lived, quite literally fighting for freedom, not from taxation, like the founding fathers, but from a life of servitude.

So my question to you is, should we raise statues of free'd slaves? Should we replace confederate statues with them? Or should we put statues of slaves up alongside the confederate ones? Or should we not put statues of slaves up at all - in which case, if you are a proponent of keeping confederate statues - how genuine is your desire to 'preserve history' anyway?

The Guardian - America must build statues against slavery and racism. It can start with these.

Am I to understand that we have no monuments to commemorate Black Americans? I hadn't considered the possibility but if we really have no monuments commemorating Americans of African descent and a flat prohibition on installing such statues then maybe we are as racist as everyone tells me.

 

[apdst]

You said no monuments for losers, what's to take out of context? Are you saying some losers need monuments or do you agree that the confederate statues need to go?

You're lying about the context of my comment.

 

[KevinKohler]

I don't know enough about him to know. Again, my question is more general - would you like to see statues of black emancipation figures? And should those take the place of confederate statues or stand along side them?

When it comes to choosing specific people, my preference would be to defer to the black community, rather than make those decisions myself. It's their ancestors, after all.

Not beside, facing. Opposing sides.



I'd be behind that 100%.

 

[KevinKohler]

You said no monuments for losers, what's to take out of context? Are you saying some losers need monuments or do you agree that the confederate statues need to go?



Sure, let's just litter every court house in the south with a dozen different statues.

A dozen? Who said anything about that?

 

[bearpoker]

Adelbert Ames had his unit wiped out at Fredericksburg. He's a loser. No monuments to losers.

Besides, he was appointed governer, not elected. A monument to Ames would be a slap in the face to Southerners, which I know is your objective, but aren't we looking for unity?

If you don't want monuments to losers, then you must support taking down the statues of confederate generals. They lost the war.

 

[apdst]

If you don't want monuments to losers, then you must support taking down the statues of confederate generals. They lost the war.

Did we win Vietnam?