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Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government?

Should We Give More Support to the Ukrainian Government

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 40.7%

  • No

    Votes: 15 55.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Total voters
    27
Hell no! We should handle it as the former ambassador to Russia has said. And perhaps listen to Kissenger's advice. Both of whom realise that any further NATO expansion will be unacceptable to Moscow.
 
NO.....the Ukrainian Government is loaded with thugs. Let the Europeans deal with their problem.
 
Let's see..... enable Putin in re-establishing dominance over Eastern Europe..... or don't enable Putin in re-establishing Russian dominance over Eastern Europe.....

:thinking hmm..... so difficult to decide whether or not we want a major geopolitical opponent and autocrat to be better positioned to choke off portions of western democracy....
 
Such hyperbole!!
 

With the Right Diplomacy.....Putin's extension ends with his border. The dominance would extend only that far. So there would be no choking off of Western Democracy.
 
Define support. If you mean expanding NATO, then no, that's just asking for trouble. If the UN wants to actually intervene, which we all know they won't because they're a bunch of ******s, that's one thing. Direct U.S. support, I don't see why. What have they done for us?
 
MMC said:
With the Right Diplomacy.....Putin's extension ends with his border. The dominance would extend only that far. So there would be no choking off of Western Democracy.
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Which is pretty much what Kissenger and the former ambassador to Russia have stated.
 

No! Let's try helping Ukrainians instead. We are Empire-building on a Corporate oligarchic level. If you want to have peace with your antagonists, you do trade with them. The sanctions are exactly the opposite. Prevent trade and try to do maximum economic damage to them. There will be backflash.
 
MMC said:
With the Right Diplomacy.....Putin's extension ends with his border.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting theory. Putin sent, as I recall, armed columns into Crimea. You've been in combat before as well. Usually we shot at groups of armed bad guys, we never tried throwing diplomacy at them. Did that work for you?
 
MadLib said:
I take it that you're now a Kissinger fan? :lol:
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:roll: he only has one consistent stance, and that is that whatever US policy is, it is wrong.
 
cpwill said:
That's an interesting theory. Putin sent, as I recall, armed columns into Crimea. You've been in combat before as well. Usually we shot at groups of armed bad guys, we never tried throwing diplomacy at them. Did that work for you?
Click to expand...


Well.....that's because Putin will do what he can to avoid fighting US ground forces. He knows many of us.....won't take Prisoners. So some serious talk wherein he gets the message. Will work. It takes someone to let Putin understand.....to know thy place on the food chain.

You didn't think the Russians would allow their access to the Club Med to be taken from them, did you?
 
The current regime in the Ukraine are usurpers who should be crushed.
 
I've visited Ukraine many times. It is the largest country entirely within Europe. A vast, complex, and beautiful country with exceptional potential. But it does need deep reform in its governance, judiciary, and the economy. Its high corruption index is a vestige of being joined at the hip to Russia (Czars/Soviets/Russian Federation) for the past 300 years. At independence in 1991, Ukraine and Poland were on a par economically. While a Russian-oriented Ukraine has stagnated, Poland (with EU membership) has become one of the fastest growing economies in Europe. Millions of Ukrainians, especially the younger generation who have little or no remembrance of the Ukrainian SSR, desperately seek and demand national reforms which is why they strongly desire kinship with Europe and membership in the European Union.

Sole reliance on Russian energy is crippling. The industrial base in eastern Ukraine (Donbass) is aging and mired in sectors (iron/steel/coal) with diminishing profitability. But the technical knowledge is there. Russia couldn't fling satellites into orbit without Ukrainian components and assistance. On the flip-side, Ukraine could easily replace France as the breadbasket of Europe.

Without Ukraine, Putin's Eurasian Economic Union is crap. Putin fears a EU Ukraine. Just as the Ukrainians looked west at Poland's great strides, Putin fears Russians may someday start looking across the border at a democratic and flourishing Ukraine. He will utilize whatever economic and military force is required to prevent this transition from occurring.
 
MMC said:
Well.....that's because Putin will do what he can to avoid fighting US ground forces.
Click to expand...

Sure. So if we had been willing to put a 82nd Airborne speedbump in Crimea, he probably wouldn't have invaded. But that didn't happen, and would have been part of "giving more support to the Ukrainian government".

So some serious talk wherein he gets the message. Will work.
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:lol: Two Words: Red Line.
 
The United States has an unequivocal national security interest in countering Russian expansionism. We should provide money, weapons, training and intelligence to the Ukrainian military so they can secure their borders and expel Russian influence in the Crimea. We should further work out a free trade agreement with Ukraine and, specifically, should be making arrangements for Ukraine's energy needs to be met by sales from the West. Diplomatically, we ought to be pressuring Europe into welcoming Ukraine into the fold. A resurgent Russia would be a problem for everyone, not just Ukraine.
 

Yes

We should be supplying them with weapons, not blankets and MREs. Standing by and doing nothing while Putin acts like a bully is sending the wrong message.
 
Roadvirus said:
Yes

We should be supplying them with weapons, not blankets and MREs. Standing by and doing nothing while Putin acts like a bully is sending the wrong message.
Click to expand...

No, not weapons. All the non-weaponized support in the world, and all the economic sanctions we can (and they're more effective than most people seem to think), but not weapons. Why? If we do that, how far are we from getting our troops involved? The very last thing I would want is ground combat between two nuclear-armed nations. The freedom of the Ukraine is NOT worth risking that.

Obama's taking the wisest path he can - all the non-military support he can send, garnering the support of NATO (and getting the Ukraine to officially join the EU), and placing economic sanctions on the Russians. These make it much harder for the Russians to effectively continue, while at the same time minimizing the risk of all-out war with a nation with many thousands of nuclear weapons.
 

Slippery slope fallacy?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
It might very well be a fallacy...but do you really want to risk being wrong when the stakes are, you know, worldwide devastation and the end of modern civilization?
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I wouldn't want to risk being wrong about gay marriage if that would lead to rampant pedophilia and bestiality, but there is no evidence such would occur. Both the Soviets and the US managed to arm each others' enemies without global nuclear annihilation.
 
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