• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should we care that smart women aren't having kids?

Should we care that smart women aren't having kids? | Sadhbh Walshe | Comment is free | theguardian.com

Part of the reason I put this here is that the argument of the article appears to be totally ass-backwards.



Frankly, I don't understand why anybody cares who does or doesn't choose to have children. As long as you can provide for however many children you have, that's your business.

But the whole IQ vs momhood thing is lame.

I agree. It's not anyone's business if you have children or not. I don't think procreation is a number 1 priority anymore, and a lot of "smart" women would probably wait until they have a nice bank account built up before getting pregnant too. :mrgreen: It makes much less complicated and easier if you're well prepared to have a baby.
 
The simple answer?

We didn't

Hmm - why do you think that?

I say so based on attitudes of people I know toward parenting. It comes out especially thick when topics of 'poor parents with several kids' comes up.
 
Hmm - why do you think that?

I say so based on attitudes of people I know toward parenting. It comes out especially thick when topics of 'poor parents with several kids' comes up.

You do have a point. I disagreed because I took your earlier post as saying that parenthood *in general* was becoming less "favored" or "approved" of. IMO, there has always been a tendency among some people to look down upon the idea of poor people breeding. However, I do think that this disapproval has become more common (except possibly amongst the poor).

This reminds me of an article I once read about two differing viewpoints on family life. One pov was called "Children create families" while the other was "Families create children".

The former was common up until a few decades ago (and possible later) when sex ed and contraceptives (including bc pills) were less common and accessible. Kids being kids, they had sex and eventually, a pregnancy resulted. While some were able to get abortions, and some did put their kids up for adoption, many (if not most) resulted in the teens getting married. The mother invariably dropped out of school to have and then take care of the child, and usually the father did too, in order to support the new family. Basically, by forcing these kids to take on the burdens of adulthood and parenthood, the child made the family.

A more modern pov is that "families make children". In this version, kids go to school, graduate, begin careers and establish themselves as independent adults. It's only then that they get married and have children. IOW, families make children.

This latter version has become considered more acceptable as time goes on, and the former less acceptable. I think this contributes to the view that people who are not independent should not have children, and those that do otherwise are looked down upon. To the extent that this is true, I think you make a good point. However, I don't think that means that parenthood in general is looked down upon.
 
I read recently that the rate of childless women has changed from 1 in 20 to 1 in 5 in the space of 30 years, pretty crazy jump. I'm in my mid-20's about to have our 2nd kid, own our house, Wife has her masters and has a great job but yet people think we are " crazy" to have kids this young. This has always amused me because the later you leave it the worse your chances become at getting pregnant and the health risks increase for women as they get older. For me its the ideal time to have kids and yes our social life/ careers get a little bit of a knock but then we will have out late 30's and 40's to focus on them. From talking to my friends and peers it seems that the majority of people choose not to have kids for selfish reasons like still wanting to go out and party on the weekends, go on holidays at the drop of a hat, travel and not wanting to be responsible for anything other than themselves. My generation are very self absorbed which is why social media took off like it did so the idea of having to take care of something as needy as a child terrifies them and many of them are still attached at the hip to their own parents.
Personally I think its the responsibility of every human being to leave a positive legacy for future generations and the easiest way to do that is through children, I think if you are married or have a long time partner and you decide not to have kids then you have ultimately failed society.
 
I think if you are married or have a long time partner and you decide not to have kids then you have ultimately failed society.

I'm not here to impress society, and I am not in society's debt, therefore I can not fail society. I'm here to live my life to the fullest, because it's mine to live. Whether I eventually have kids or not is absolutely irrelevant, as my family doesn't have any obligation to anybody.

Having the world population shrink a bit is far more of a good thing than a bad one nowadays.
 
I'm not here to impress society, and I am not in society's debt, therefore I can not fail society. I'm here to live my life to the fullest, because it's mine to live. Whether I eventually have kids or not is absolutely irrelevant, as my family doesn't have any obligation to anybody.

Having the world population shrink a bit is far more of a good thing than a bad one nowadays.


Your opinion which of course your entitled to but I respectfully disagree. Society provided you with a good education, stable government, healthcare, safe living environments etc you owe your life to western society.
 
Your opinion which of course your entitled to but I respectfully disagree. Society provided you with a good education, stable government, healthcare, safe living environments etc you owe your life to western society.

Yes it did and as an adult he is paying taxes to support the education system, the police etc as repayment. Further he is at the moment using society to help raise children, so if he does not have children his debt will be more then paid back. Assuming he has saved for retirement of course
 
Why are you guys melting? This is news of the weird. It's a weird article. Do people honestly believe that smarter women are less likely to choose to procreate?! That's ridiculous!

You guys were specifically Goshin and 88 guy.

Personally I think that most women are automatically smarter than most men. But exceptionally smart women...well, now that's sexy. ;)
 
Your opinion which of course your entitled to but I respectfully disagree. Society provided you with a good education, stable government, healthcare, safe living environments etc you owe your life to western society.
Actually, none of what society gave me was a gift. Society is taxing my ass to death to pay for all of those "goodies", so I think we're square. By the time I retire I will far, far, far surpass in taxes what I received in benefits. I don't owe anybody ****, if anything society owes me something.
 
Every time I see this thread title I wonder why no one ever questions, "Should we care smart men aren't having kids?"

I searched, hoping to find something, and it's not even researched. It's either 'people in general' or 'women.'
 
Every time I see this thread title I wonder why no one ever questions, "Should we care smart men aren't having kids?"

I searched, hoping to find something, and it's not even researched. It's either 'people in general' or 'women.'

That's interesting. I wonder why? Having kids is a decision that most couples would be making together I hope.
 
Every time I see this thread title I wonder why no one ever questions, "Should we care smart men aren't having kids?"

I searched, hoping to find something, and it's not even researched. It's either 'people in general' or 'women.'

doncha know...unless men are trying to control what women do with their bodies or oppressing some minority group, nobody cares what they do ;)
 
Every time I see this thread title I wonder why no one ever questions, "Should we care smart men aren't having kids?"

I searched, hoping to find something, and it's not even researched. It's either 'people in general' or 'women.'

In general it is because men do not give birth, smart men could become the father of 100 kids per year or more if they were really busy (they would be really broke as well.

Overall it is women who can control if childern are born or not to a greater extent, as the primary decline in birth rates has corresponded with women entering the workforce and seeking careers, the lower birth rate is most likely due to womens choices over the last 30-50 years rather then the choices by men during that time frame. It is women who generally have to make the choice of being a mother and or having a career (which by having childern may not be as sucessfull as it may have been). Men in general do not have that choice to make (being a family man in the past if I am not mistaken lead to pay raises)
 
Actually, none of what society gave me was a gift. Society is taxing my ass to death to pay for all of those "goodies", so I think we're square. By the time I retire I will far, far, far surpass in taxes what I received in benefits. I don't owe anybody ****, if anything society owes me something.

Unless you live off your own land, built your own transportation and route, educated yourself, make your own clothes etc then maybe you can claim that society owes you something.
 
Unless you live off your own land, built your own transportation and route, educated yourself, make your own clothes etc then maybe you can claim that society owes you something.

I will be taxed more than I receive in benefits, therefore no, I do not owe society anything.

And who decides what's "best for society"? You? Why is procreating like rabbits morally preferable to not having kids?
 
Unless you live off your own land, built your own transportation and route, educated yourself, make your own clothes etc then maybe you can claim that society owes you something.

As Rabid stated

The amount paid in taxes for people who do not have childern will be higher then those with, and those without childern will use fewer services typically paid for by the government (depending on country of course) like education, community sports and health care. The amount paid in taxes should greatly outweight the amount of taxes consumed through service rendered by the childless adult.

So I would strongly suggest that no one owes it to society to have childern, as the payment to society can and often does come through taxes paid. Yes, for society to continue childern are required to replace those who die off, but society is not going to collapse if over time the population decreases by 10-20 % (something that has happened in history), especially when the population is at the highest level in history.
 
As Rabid stated

The amount paid in taxes for people who do not have childern will be higher then those with, and those without childern will use fewer services typically paid for by the government (depending on country of course) like education, community sports and health care. The amount paid in taxes should greatly outweight the amount of taxes consumed through service rendered by the childless adult.

So I would strongly suggest that no one owes it to society to have childern, as the payment to society can and often does come through taxes paid. Yes, for society to continue childern are required to replace those who die off, but society is not going to collapse if over time the population decreases by 10-20 % (something that has happened in history), especially when the population is at the highest level in history.


It will affect us socially if wealthier more educated adults are choosing not to have kids and welfare families keep pumping them out.
 
I'm thinking probably not everyone should be a parent anyway. :shrug: I think some people are just not cut out for parenting.
 
Survival of the fittest doesn't work if the fittest don't have kids.
 
Survival of the fittest doesn't work if the fittest don't have kids.

That's really not much of an issue in today's world and medical technology, etc.
 
I'm thinking probably not everyone should be a parent anyway. :shrug: I think some people are just not cut out for parenting.

That's for sure.
 
Back
Top Bottom