Should we care that smart women aren't having kids?

[sangha]

I simply think it's very telling that our society's values have become so perversely warped and narcissistic in recent decades that it is now the case that most "well off" people either don't want children, or only have one or two, often begrudgingly, even if their financial circumstances easily allow for the raising of a decent sized family.

Every society experiences lower birth rates as it's prosperity increases

 

[Gathomas88]

China's population growth rate is right around zero. Remember the one child policy.

China along with Japan and south Korea are among the fastest aging populations on earth, I believe only Italy is ahead of them.

And they are all going to wind up paying for that in the long run. Japan's economic situation, for instance, is actually worse off in many regards than even the Western World, and the negative long term effects of the One Child Policy are actually one of the major reasons why India is expected to ultimately surpass China in the first place.

However, this hardly changes the fact that basically the only reason Chiba exists as a major economic, military, and political power is because of the ridiculous size of its population (and therefore workforce, military, taxbase, etca).

From any "realpolitik" perspective, the sheer amount of human resources they have access to sets them head and shoulders above the Western World, and always will.

As for India, it will never have the standard of living of the west. It does not have the natural resources like water or space to allow for that to occur.

Nonsense. People said exactly the same thing about China back in the day.

Overall given that the western world has a population of nearly one billion, the chance if it dieing out is very minimal.

In a world of over seven billion people (which is expected to be more than 9 or 10 before the end of century), such numbers are peanuts.

Every society experiences lower birth rates as it's prosperity increases

True, but this does absolutely nothing to excuse the outright negative population growth currently being seen in the Western World, or the perverse attitudes which make it possible.

 

[sangha]

True, but this does absolutely nothing to excuse the outright negative population growth currently being seen in the Western World.

The US does not have negative population growth, nor do its' population stats indicate that it will.

 

[Gathomas88]

The US does not have negative population growth, nor do its' birth rates indicate that it will.

Nonsense.

US Birthrate Not High Enough to Keep Population Stable

The only thing keeping the US population in the green right now is immigration; primarily of Hispanics. Immigration, I might add, that is going to make us a minority within our own nation within a few short decades if current trends continue.

Projections Put Whites in Minority in U.S. by 2050

If you want to live in a nation ruled by a majority of Catholic, more or less culturally conservative, Latinos, that's fine with me. I simply think it's very telling that modern Liberal (predominantly White) attitudes towards reproduction are so inherently self-destructive that they've basically doomed themselves to irrelevance and eventual extinction on an intrinsic level in the first place. :lol:

Your position here is going to eventually lose either way regardless.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Nonsense.

US Birthrate Not High Enough to Keep Population Stable

The only thing keeping the US population in the green right now is immigration; primarily of Hispanics. Immigration, I might add, that is going to make us a minority within our own nation within a few short decades if current trends continue.

Projections Put Whites in Minority in U.S. by 2050

If you want to live in a nation ruled by a majority of Catholic, more or less culturally conservative, Latinos, that's fine with me. I simply think it's very telling that modern Liberal (predominantly White) attitudes towards reproduction are so inherently self-destructive that they've basically doomed themselves to irrelevance and eventual extinction on an intrinsic level in the first place. :lol:

Hey dude. I have a secret.

Guess what?

Even if you breed, you're still gonna die anyway. And you won't give a damn whether "the race continues."

Although some of us realize what a stupid concept that is during life, so I personally don't care even right now.

 

[sangha]

Nonsense.

US Birthrate Not High Enough to Keep Population Stable

The only thing keeping the US population in the green right now is immigration; primarily of Hispanics.

And there you go!

No danger of our population shrinking

Immigration, I might add, that is going to make us a minority within our own nation within a few short decades if current trends continue.

 

[Gathomas88]

Hey dude. I have a secret.

Guess what?

Even if you breed, you're still gonna die anyway. And you won't give a damn whether "the race continues."

Although some of us realize what a stupid concept that is during life, so I personally don't care even right now.

Which again, is exactly why your philosophy fails as a general concept.

You're essentially going to be bred out of existence, precisely because you place no value upon the future.

And there you go!

No danger of our population shrinking

In case you haven't noticed, I pretty much explicitly stated that I don't necessarily have a problem with it.

Bring on Catholic Hispanic land! Sounds awesome, if you ask me.

Again, I simply think it's hilarious that Liberal Whites basically prefer committing cultural and ethnic suicide to the natural process of reproduction.

Either way, you guys lose. :shrug:

 

[sangha]

In case you haven't noticed, I pretty much explicitly stated that I don't necessarily have a problem with it.

Bring on Catholic Hispanic land! Sounds awesome, if you ask me.

Again, I simply think it's hilarious that Liberal Whites basically prefer committing cultural and ethnic suicide to the natural process of reproduction.

Either way, you guys lose. :shrug:

Maybe you haven't noticed, but in spite of the claimed "conservatism" of Latin Americans, they are more supportive of the democratic agenda (ex progressive income taxes, strong social safety net, etc) than they are of the republican on

 

[Gathomas88]

Maybe you haven't noticed, but in spite of the claimed "conservatism" of Latin Americans, they are more supportive of the democratic agenda (ex progressive income taxes, strong social safety net, etc) than they are of the republican on

They're immigrants. No **** they tend to support the Dem agenda.

However, it remains to be seen if they will continue to adopt such views as they start to ingratiate themselves into the ranks of the middle classes. It also doesn't change the fact that, culturally and religiously speaking, Latin Americans tend to be far more conservative than Americans on average.

A more culturally conservative and religious society at the expense of slightly more Left Wing political views? Meh... I'd take it.

The way my generation seems to think these days, Left Wing views are becoming more and more pervasive anyway.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Which again, is exactly why your philosophy fails as a general concept.

You're essentially going to be bred out of existence, precisely because you place no value upon the future.

Dude, you don't get it. I don't CARE. :lol:

I don't place value on my race. And if my ideas are good, I won't need to breed a bunch of brainwashed mini me's. They will continue on their own by what I actually do and say. If they suck, they'll die, and they'll deserve to.

I have no obligation to care about the future, because I didn't force anyone to exist in it. All I have to worry about is doing the best I can while I'm here.

You're the one who wants to make more people to worry about, and I should be responsible for it? Get over yourself. Your mess, your problem. I have enough on my plate trying to clean up the mess of those who came before you.

 

[Gathomas88]

Dude, you don't get it. I don't CARE. :lol:

So, again, you lose. End of discussion.

The vast majority of people don't accept your views now. Why on Earth would you think that weakening the very culture which made such views possible in the first place would make them anything but less common?

The simple fact of the matter is that child-rearing is basically the only way to ensure that a person's viewpoints will definitely survive into the next generation. By voluntarily choosing to forgo this, you have basically forfeited the match from square one.

You are absolutely correct in pointing out that the world will continue to spin either way regardless. It will simply do so without you, and your ridiculous self-defeating cultural ideas.

 

[sangha]

They're immigrants. No **** they tend to support the Dem agenda.

However, it remains to be seen if they will continue to adopt such views as they start to ingratiate themselves into the ranks of the middle classes. It also doesn't change the fact that, culturally and religiously speaking, Latin Americans tend to be far more conservative than Americans on average.

A more culturally conservative and religious society at the expense of slightly more Left Wing political views? Meh... I'd take it.

The way my generation seems to think these days, Left Wing views are becoming more and more pervasive anyway.

Yes, you say you have no problem with it, yet you continue to use is as an argument about why falling fertility in american citizens is A Bad Thing

That's pretty funny stuff

 

[Gathomas88]

Yes, you say you have no problem with it, yet you continue to use is as an argument about why falling fertility in american citizens is A Bad Thing

That's pretty funny stuff

From a Western cultural perspective, it is a "bad thing." We're basically at risk of being supplanted both on the international stage and within our own nations by foreign cultural influences.

Is it a "bad thing" from an objective standpoint, however? I'm becoming more and more inclined to say that it isn't.

Western Civilization is a diseased, barely functioning husk of its former self. Frankly, a good old fashion "mercy kill" might very well be exactly what we need right now.

 

[sangha]

From a Western cultural perspective, it is a "bad thing." We're basically at risk of being supplanted both on the international stage and within our own nations by foreign cultural influences.

Ahhh, I see! It puts our international standing at risk

And you have "no problem" with that!! :roll:

Is it a "bad thing" from an objective standpoint, however? I'm becoming more and more inclined to say that it isn't.

Western Civilization is a diseased, barely functioning husk of its former self. Frankly, a good old fashion "mercy kill" might very well be exactly what we need right now.

So you should be very happy about it

Yet, you've used that to argue that the declining birth rate is A Bad Thing

That's pretty funny stuff.

 

[Gathomas88]

Ahhh, I see! It puts our international standing at risk

And you have "no problem" with that!! :roll:

So you should be very happy about it

Yet, you've used that to argue that the declining birth rate is A Bad Thing

That's pretty funny stuff.

I would rather not see the nation and culture of my birth go the way of the Old Rome and the Byzantine Empire if such things can be helped, no.

I'm simply finding the "silver lining" in the situation.

If our society is too fundamentally broken to survive anyway, I can at least take comfort in knowing that the ideas which lead to our downfall in the first place are likely to die with us.

The handling of humanity's future will be left to better men than ourselves.

 

[sangha]

I would rather not see the nation and culture of my birth go the way of the Old Rome and the Byzantine Empire if such things can be helped, no.

I'm simply finding the "silver lining" in the situation.

If our society is too fundamentally broken to survive anyway, I can at least take comfort in knowing that the ideas which lead to our downfall in the first place are likely to die with us.

The handling of humanity's future will be left to better men than ourselves.

Ahh, I see!!

Now it's A Bad Thing again

Pretty funny stuff

 

[Gathomas88]

Ahh, I see!!

Now it's A Bad Thing again

Pretty funny stuff

I really fail to see how this is a hard concept. :roll:

If a beloved family member dies after wasting away from a particularly long battle with cancer, are you happy to see them dead?

No.

On the other hand, are you somewhat relieved to know that their suffering is at an end and that the medical bills are going to stop coming?

 

[sangha]

I really fail to see how this is a hard concept. :roll:

If a beloved family member dies after wasting away from a particularly long battle with cancer, are you happy to see them dead?

No.

On the other hand, are you somewhat relieved to know that their suffering is at an end and that the medical bills are going to stop coming?

We're not talking about your family.....thank God

We're talking about the Latino population becoming a larger and larger portion of the US population

You know, the thing you were arguing is A Bad Thing, after arguing that it was A Good Thing, after arguing that it was A Bad Thing

 

[Tigger]

This is probably the best news I've heard on the "women's issues" front in a long time. The more educated, professional, modern women who choose to forego becoming a parent and having kids the better off we should be in the long run as their ideals hopecully die with them.

 

[americanwoman]

Actually most, if not all, Mexican-Americans I know identify more with American culture than Mexican and are not at all "conservative". And as they have children and so on, the culture fades. If in fact we are predominately Hispanic nation at any point, it will be more a merging of cultures that is not recognizable at this point, than a straight Catholic Hispanic conservative culture. Just saying.

 

[Gathomas88]

We're not talking about your family.....thank God

We're talking about the Latino population becoming a larger and larger portion of the US population

You know, the thing you were arguing is A Bad Thing, after arguing that it was A Good Thing, after arguing that it was A Bad Thing

I fail to see why the exact same principles cannot apply. I would love to see the Western World come back to cultural sanity on its own initiative and rise back to its former levels of power and glory.

If that's not going to happen, however; a relatively quick death at the hands of a culture which is in many ways superior to our own will work just fine too.

It's survival of the fittest, plain and simple. If we can't hack it, there are plenty of other people out there just dying to take our place.

Actually most, if not all, Mexican-Americans I know identify more with American culture than Mexican and are not at all "conservative". And as they have children and so on, the culture fades. If in fact we are predominately Hispanic nation at any point, it will be more a merging of cultures that is not recognizable at this point, than a straight Catholic Hispanic conservative culture. Just saying.

Perhaps. However, any Hispanic dominated culture is going to ultimately be far closer to what presently exists in Latin America than the United States. Latin America is, believe it or not, quite a bit more Conservative than the United States from a cultural and religious standpoint.

If they become a majority, it is going to be their country, not ours.

 

[clownboy]

We're not talking about your family.....thank God

We're talking about the Latino population becoming a larger and larger portion of the US population

You know, the thing you were arguing is A Bad Thing, after arguing that it was A Good Thing, after arguing that it was A Bad Thing

Try reading his posts for understanding/comprehension and not with the idea that you were going to twist the hell out of every point. It's a bad thing the culture some of us older folks grew up with is dying. It had it's great points, but it had it's low points too. The good part is that those low points die with it. The bad part is so do the great ones.

 

[sangha]

If that's not going to happen, however; a relatively quick death at the hands of a culture which is in many ways superior to our own will work just fine too.

It's survival of the fittest, plain and simple. If we can't hack it, there are plenty of other people out there just dying to take our place.

So, it's back to being A Good Thing!

Perhaps, However, any Hispanic dominated culture is going to ultimately be far closer to what exists in Latin America than what presently exists in the United States.

If they become a majority, it is going to be their country, not ours.

Back in the A Bad Thing pile!

 

[Diogenes]

Frankly, I don't understand why anybody cares who does or doesn't choose to have children. As long as you can provide for however many children you have, that's your business.

I have a problem with those who want me to provide for the consequences of their careless selfishness. See also vhemt.org for those who think we have too many people already.

 

[Gathomas88]

So, it's back to being A Good Thing!

Back in the A Bad Thing pile!

Sooo... In other words, you have no real counter-argument here, so you've basically resorted to trolling.

Lol. Gotcha. I accept your concession.