Should we allow 30,000 deaths a year so 500 people can defend their TV sets?

[TurtleDude]

Guns are the highest preventable cause of death in the United States. If Hillary is willing to severely restrict them, she is a-ok in my book.

Also, she has been First Lady, Secretary of State, and Senator. She knows how to lead.

nope

stupidity is the highest cause of preventable deaths in the USA. your worship of the Cankled Liar is touching but I believe its more probable that you are a "law enforcement officer" than that twit is going to be president.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Guns are the highest preventable cause of death in the United States. If Hillary is willing to severely restrict them, she is a-ok in my book.

Also, she has been First Lady, Secretary of State, and Senator. She knows how to lead.

She's also deleted 30k emails that should not have been deleted per the law from when she was SoS. While SoS she lied about the reason that Benghazi happened. While SoS she made the situation in Syria worse. While a Senator she essentially did crap. Being First Lady does not mean that you're qualified to be President. And she is currently looking at ethics charges due to certain contributions to her and Bill's Foundation and favoritism exhibited due to those contributions....favoritism shown towards politicians and people from other countries.

It's sad that you would support her knowing that she's a crook. Lets me know all that is needed to know about how your stay here at DP is going to be.

 

[Gaius46]

Here's the thing:

When President Hillary takes office in 2017, she will probably be tasked with appointing two new supreme court justices in her first term.

She will replace the gun nut justices with people who have common sense and respect the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." which guns take away.

Heller vs. DC will be overturned as soon as Hillary appoints her new justices.

Now there is nothing the gun nuts can to do to stop anything ranging from background checks to full confiscation

Stare Decisis.

If Clinton gets elected
and if she gets to select two new SC justices
and if they get confirmed
and if they turn out to toe the line with her political beliefs (SC justices have a nasty habit of not only thinking for themselves but also changing their positions once on the court)

you still have the stare decisis hurdle. In short keep dreaming.


Frankly I don't need to justify gun ownership. It's a right we have. Amend the Constitution if you don't like it. And more to the point I have committed no crimes, let along crimes with firearms so kindly leave me alone to live my life. Go bother people who actually break the law.

 

[LuddlyNeddite]

Stare Decisis.

If Clinton gets elected
and if she gets to select two new SC justices
and if they get confirmed
and if they turn out to toe the line with her political beliefs (SC justices have a nasty habit of not only thinking for themselves but also changing their positions once on the court)

you still have the stare decisis hurdle. In short keep dreaming.


Frankly I don't need to justify gun ownership. It's a right we have. Amend the Constitution if you don't like it. And more to the point I have committed no crimes, let along crimes with firearms so kindly leave me alone to live my life. Go bother people who actually break the law.

Stare Decisis really helped slaveholders, Jim Crow, and people who didn't want women's suffereage, right? Right?

 

[Gaius46]

Stare Decisis really helped slaveholders, Jim Crow, and people who didn't want women's suffereage, right? Right?

Ahh....slavery ended at the point of Union guns. Woman's sufferage through a Constitutional amendment. Most Jim Crow laws were ended by the Civil Rights Act of 64 and the Voting Rights Act of 65. The SC ended school segregation but that was it out of your three example.

The court gets it wrong. There is no doubt. But retroactively fixing their mistakes seldom happens. Not that they got it wrong with Heller. They didn't.

 

[TurtleDude]

Aren't you from New Zealand?

He lives there. that doesn't mean his citizenship is that of a Kiwi.

 

[LuddlyNeddite]

Ahh....slavery ended at the point of Union guns. Woman's sufferage through a Constitutional amendment. Most Jim Crow laws were ended by the Civil Rights Act of 64 and the Voting Rights Act of 65. The SC ended school segregation but that was it out of your three example.

The court gets it wrong. There is no doubt. But retroactively fixing their mistakes seldom happens. Not that they got it wrong with Heller. They didn't.

Hillary takes office in 2016. Two pro-safety justices are appointed to the court. The second amendment is now dead from the point of view of individuals. Why don;t you just accept this fact?

 

[Gaius46]

Hillary takes office in 2016. Two pro-safety justices are appointed to the court. The second amendment is now dead from the point of view of individuals. Why don;t you just accept this fact?

You wouldn't care to wager on that would you?

 

[Black Dog]

Hillary takes office in 2016. Two pro-safety justices are appointed to the court. The second amendment is now dead from the point of view of individuals. Why don;t you just accept this fact?

OK you are just spamming at this point. You don't know the future anymore than anyone else. You have no argument so you throw useless speculation around.

Your posts are pretty boring man.

 

[LeoVlaming]

Well over 30,000 people die each year in motor vehicle accidents.

 

[chromium]

Guns are the highest preventable cause of death in the United States. If Hillary is willing to severely restrict them, she is a-ok in my book.

Also, she has been First Lady, Secretary of State, and Senator. She knows how to lead.

That would be heart disease and even traffic crashes are more common

Nothing on that list indicates leadership. Potentially sec of state but still serves at the whim of the prez

 

[chromium]

Hillary takes office in 2016. Two pro-safety justices are appointed to the court. The second amendment is now dead from the point of view of individuals. Why don;t you just accept this fact?

Please quote where hillary EVER said that she'd appoint justices solely to enforce a militia only interpretation

I don't recall this from her last campaign, which didn't even make it past the primaries, and she only just began this campaign. I don't imagine she's ever been pressed on it

 

[Juanita]

Hillary takes office in 2016. Two pro-safety justices are appointed to the court. The second amendment is now dead from the point of view of individuals. Why don;t you just accept this fact?

Nope! Never, never, ever! Sorry!

 

[LeoVlaming]

Hillary takes office in 2016.

Shows how much you know about the US Constitution.

 

[earthworm]

Eleminate the guns and eliminate the gun related deaths... pretty simple.

And imagine the police state that would be necessary to implement this . Or, having the entire world in "no-guns" for anyone .. agreement .. maybe in the year 20150 .. thanks to the nature of man ..Returning to 2015, and NOT 1815, as the Turtle would like, a COMPLETE dossier on every man , woman, and child would be necessary .. but who is to be trusted to read and use this mythical dossier ?
Thus, the beat goes on, and another 30,000 are killed ..

 

[Ockham]

Your link seems to show the yearly justifiable homicides by law enforcement officers, not by private citizens.

Justifiable homicides are not the only way felonies are stopped do to guns.

The anti-gun nuts have been doing that since the 1970's --- including LEO shootings, suicides, etc to bolster their numbers attempting to lie using statistics to bolster their narrative. The tactic is almost as old as I am, though very ineffective.

 

[LuddlyNeddite]

And imagine the police state that would be necessary to implement this . Or, having the entire world in "no-guns" for anyone .. agreement .. maybe in the year 20150 .. thanks to the nature of man ..Returning to 2015, and NOT 1815, as the Turtle would like, a COMPLETE dossier on every man , woman, and child would be necessary .. but who is to be trusted to read and use this mythical dossier ?
Thus, the beat goes on, and another 30,000 are killed ..

Having your name on a registry or dossier is no big deal.

Losing your life due to gun violence IS a big deal.

I'd much prefer a list of every single gun owner in America, their address, and their place of work. That way, we can track down these people who have already shown a likelihood for violence by owning a gun

 

[Van Basten]

Awful poll is awful.

 

[humbolt]

Wut? Not another one of these things. :doh

 

[plutonium]

I did not vote because I have mixed feelings if someone can break in your house I consider that a real danger and if the person does not put the belonging down I may shoot..if the person scares me I will shoot to kill.....people have to understand not to break in anyone's house

 

[B'smith]

“SHOULD 30,000 DISARMED VIOLENT CRIME VICTIMS DIE TO PLACATE 500 HOPLOPHOBES”

YES ( )

NO ( )

I ,too, didn’t answer the Forum Poll because it was both leading & far too hypothetic.

The Poll I composed is equally nonsensical in the same spirit as the Forum Poll

Statistics cited by individuals on both side of the debate are freely bantered back & forth while converting few from their espablished position.

It would be helpful if statistics were available showing the number of armed individuals who were NOT killed, raped etc and who prevented additional casualties in mass killings.

But “the News” doesn’t report violence averted (but could)

I think I can cite one statistic with certainty & that is 0% of anti-Gun activists outwardly display their anti Gun stance

You will never see a poster announcing:

“THIS IS A GUN FREE HOME / CAR
NO ONE HERE IS EVER ARMED”

People display their support for political candidates, Abortion Stance etc, why not display one’s enmity for Firearms with equal fervor.

We all know why.



Thoughts

 

[SMTA]

There are 30,000 deaths by gun violence a year. Key Gun Violence Statistics | Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

The NRA says that this is acceptable, since the number of cases with self defense by guns is higher. This is PURE BS.

Want to know the real numbers? There were 500 self defense cases in the United States last year. FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 14

In case you can't math, the number of unjustified deaths caused by guns per year is SIXTY times higher than the number of self defense cases. 60!

And here's the whammy: not all of those 500 self defense incidents a year were in defense of life or limb. I'd bet that more than half of them were some guy beating somebody who tried to steal his TV, or his car, where the person doing the "self defense" was not in any real danger.

So let me ask you, my fellow citizens this: is is acceptable that we are fine with 30,000 gun deaths a year so that 500 people a year can use guns to defend their TV sets or their jewelry?

Feel free to come and get mine anytime.

Better bring more than your mouth, though.

 

[McBane]

None of these idiots realize that guns are here to stay, first it would take a monumental effort to remove the ones in country, secondly even if you did remove every single firearm from the planet we have a lot of talented people in manufacturing in this country, there are shops just about everywhere that could make at least a crude firearm and many could make quite sophisticated ones. If prisoners can fashion crude firearms out of the materials available to them of course private citizens could. This is centuries old technology. Criminals will always have them, police will always show up late, I'm not willing to outsource my security to an underpaid understaffed police force. Neither should you.

Firearm violence is the symptom, wish we could refocus on fighting the disease.

 

[Goshin]

The OP is a lie.


Estimates on annual DGUs run from a low-ball 80,000-100,000 to figures in the millions, most of which do not involve any shots fired, and tens of thousands of which could have involved serious violent crimes.


So it is bull****.

 

[Goshin]

Moderator's Warning:

And bullshit goes flush...