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Should US journalists be banned from publicizing information recieved from a foreign government?

See thread below, and then respond

  • No, because of the 1st amendment

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • No, as long as the information is accurate

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Yes, because it's interference from abroad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Depends/Other

    Votes: 7 35.0%

  • Total voters
    20

DarkWizard12

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THE FULL QUESTION IN CONTEXT: Should US journalists be banned from publicizing information, that may reasonably hurt/help any election campaign/party, that is received from a foreign government?

Obviously, this may merit more than one answer, depending on the concept, but I'm more interested to see how our registered democrats would respond, as a compared to those on the libertarian/libertarian-left side of the spectrum.
 
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THE FULL QUESTION IN CONTEXT: Should US journalists be banned from publicizing information, that may reasonably hurt/help any presidential campaign/party, that is received from a foreign government?

Obviously, this may merit more than one answer, depending on the concept, but I'm more interested to see how our registered democrats would respond, as a compared to those on the libertarian/libertarian-left side of the spectrum.

No. What an asinine question.

Apple, meet orange.
 
Watch out folks...

Exposed hypocrisy and false logic coming from the Trump haters.
 
Watch out folks...

Exposed hypocrisy and false logic coming from the Trump haters.
The understanding is simple, the ONLY REASON a campaign would accept damaging information of their opponent, is to, at some point, have that information publicized. In context, the party/campaign is just a middle man, who has the power to decide when certain information gets published. If we go with Nancy Pelosi's idea, then we've simply made Russia's job easier. They'll just say "**** campaigns" and give their information directly to Fox News, or CNN if they want to help a democrat.

If we're going to ban campaigns from accepting said information, then that would have to be enforced by regulating journalists as well, because what's really the difference between a campaign employee, an independent journalist acting as an advocate for a campaign, and a corporate journalist? I say none. If a certain politician/candidate does something ****ty, and someone, ANYONE, finds out about it, then the individual who sees that has a right to convey that information to anyone.

If you want to stop Russia or any foreign governments from relaying damaging information about you to journalists/presidential campaigns, then the best way to do that is to stop doing corrupt things.
 
LOL! What hypocrisy and 'false logic'?

It's a proactive deflection since apparently Trumpeteers can't tell the difference between the Press and Public Servants.
 
The understanding is simple, the ONLY REASON a campaign would accept damaging information of their opponent, is to, at some point, have that information publicized. In context, the party/campaign is just a middle man, who has the power to decide when certain information gets published. If we go with Nancy Pelosi's idea, then we've simply made Russia's job easier. They'll just say "**** campaigns" and give their information directly to Fox News, or CNN if they want to help a democrat.

If we're going to ban campaigns from accepting said information, then that would have to be enforced by regulating journalists as well, because what's really the difference between a campaign employee, an independent journalist acting as an advocate for a campaign, and a corporate journalist? I say none. If a certain politician/candidate does something ****ty, and someone, ANYONE, finds out about it, then the individual who sees that has a right to convey that information to anyone.

If you want to stop Russia or any foreign governments from relaying damaging information about you to journalists/presidential campaigns, then the best way to do that is to stop doing corrupt things.

But that's essentially the same principle behind the argument for letting the government wiretap our phones and read our emails. If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. Of course that's a really, really terrible argument.

In this case, the problem with "stop doing corrupt things" argument is lots of things you might do or say or write or text (we'll assume you're the candidate) might be unseemly taken out of context but not corrupt. And those communications are presumed private, and in many cases illegally obtained. We require warrants for LEOs to get that information, but you're arguing campaigns should be able to use it no problem.

If we pass a law requiring all the texts and all the emails and all the phone calls of everyone connected to a campaign be made public, OK, then fair is fair, and it's fine for a foreign government to hack into your files and communications and release them to a campaign for their use, because there is a law requiring full disclosure of all communications by that campaign and everyone in it. But that's not how it works.

And there is a fundamental difference between a campaign working with a foreign government, and a media outlet publishing hacked materials, starting with their are laws prohibiting the former but our 1A protects the latter. It's true that a foreign government, if they're not morons, will simply launder what they want through the media. That's likely OK, but still the media outlet has some ethical and professional duties as to what's published.

At any rate, it's pretty interesting that we've now come to the point - "NO COLLUSION!!! But if some foreign government came to the candidate with illegally hacked material, then collusion would be AOK, and we'd welcome the assistance!!"

Trump is just dragging every standard into the putrid muck.
 
No, of course not.

I would like to see a law that basically says no campaign can solicit or contract with any foreign business or individual for any information or other support in the furtherance of an election or ballot measure. Nor could any third party do such on behalf of the candidate or ballot measure.
 
Does the U.S. Constitution mean nothing to people anymore?
 
The understanding is simple, the ONLY REASON a campaign would accept damaging information of their opponent, is to, at some point, have that information publicized. In context, the party/campaign is just a middle man, who has the power to decide when certain information gets published. If we go with Nancy Pelosi's idea, then we've simply made Russia's job easier. They'll just say "**** campaigns" and give their information directly to Fox News, or CNN if they want to help a democrat.

If we're going to ban campaigns from accepting said information, then that would have to be enforced by regulating journalists as well, because what's really the difference between a campaign employee, an independent journalist acting as an advocate for a campaign, and a corporate journalist? I say none. If a certain politician/candidate does something ****ty, and someone, ANYONE, finds out about it, then the individual who sees that has a right to convey that information to anyone.

If you want to stop Russia or any foreign governments from relaying damaging information about you to journalists/presidential campaigns, then the best way to do that is to stop doing corrupt things.

It's against US law for a political campaign to receive information/assistance/funding from a foreign power.

/thread
 
But that's essentially the same principle behind the argument for letting the government wiretap our phones and read our emails. If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. Of course that's a really, really terrible argument.
I would like to see a proof that that's the same argument. I'm not saying that no politician CAN'T or SHOULDN'T hide what they're doing....and indeed, for some things, they have a reason too, like secret weapons projects and etc. What I'm saying is that politicians, as public figures, have no right to EXPECT privacy. They can do anything they want to secure themselves against such things, and yes, where the situation is from one of our own, they should be prosecuted for illegal actions. But politicians should expect that competing governments might know if they do something corrupt. We can't control a national government, unless they want to punish them with sanctions or war, and good luck with that. There is a vast difference between a government surveilling a government, and government survelling their own citizens.
In this case, the problem with "stop doing corrupt things" argument is lots of things you might do or say or write or text (we'll assume you're the candidate) might be unseemly taken out of context but not corrupt. And those communications are presumed private, and in many cases illegally obtained. We require warrants for LEOs to get that information, but you're arguing campaigns should be able to use it no problem.
The media as a whole takes things out of context, so I don't really think that matters, and if did matter, then voters are clearly much more sensitive to such things that I though. Still, that's their right. If candidates can't overcome this, then they should adapt.....or, as I said before, find someway to punish the government responsible, and good luck with doing that.
If we pass a law requiring all the texts and all the emails and all the phone calls of everyone connected to a campaign be made public, OK, then fair is fair, and it's fine for a foreign government to hack into your files and communications and release them to a campaign for their use, because there is a law requiring full disclosure of all communications by that campaign and everyone in it. But that's not how it works.
I don't think it's FINE for a government to do that, much less russia, but I wouldn't fault the campaign for taking the oppo information.
And there is a fundamental difference between a campaign working with a foreign government, and a media outlet publishing hacked materials, starting with their are laws prohibiting the former but our 1A protects the latter. It's true that a foreign government, if they're not morons, will simply launder what they want through the media. That's likely OK, but still the media outlet has some ethical and professional duties as to what's published.
But again, legally, there is no difference between corporate journalists, and any other entity acting as publishers of said information. None. What law stops Trump's head of PR from saying "Acting as a journalist here, here is all the emails Russia gave us. We hope the FBI punishes russia for what they did!"

Now, if a campaign PAID for the material, then I agree, that is collusion. The fact that Hillary Clinton essentially took over the DNC, and may have used funds to pay for the salacious steel dossier to monitor trump should have all of us worried. Paying for such material, I say, IS collusion and possibly conspiracy, as there is now a money trail, and financial incentive for them to take illegal actions. It's already a dark area to contract out a US investigator to do such a thing.....but at least we can trust he would do it legally. To contract out a foreign government though, should be illegal, and I would be shocked if it already isn't.

But in this case, it seems like Russia literally said "oh, we happened to find this out about clinton, here you go", no evidence, that I can see, that money was exchanged, or that they had even planned it out. It seems that russia sat on this information for years, and gave it to Trump after it looked like he would win the R nomination. While it's shady, yea, that's not something I would hold against the campaign. If someone said they had oppo research on my opponent and said "here you go" for free, I wouldn't care where it came from. I'd take it and run with it. But by all means, punish russia, somehow, preferably without causing loss of life.
 
At any rate, it's pretty interesting that we've now come to the point - "NO COLLUSION!!! But if some foreign government came to the candidate with illegally hacked material, then collusion would be AOK, and we'd welcome the assistance!!"
I don't think that's okay for a campaign to "systematically" collude with a foreign government, nor do I believe, having watched the chaos that was the Trump campaign, actually "colluded" with Russia. It was never okay to buy information obtained illegally from a foreign government. But if someone just randomly comes up to you and says "hey, I know something about your opponent, and here's proof", then of course it's okay to take it and use it, even if it was obtained illegally. However, I will compromise, and say that all contact with foreign governments should be reported to the FBI, so at least they know that information is being shared and can help with any security and counter-intel. But as far as punishing the campaign itself, in that instance, no.

Again, don't get me wrong. If they have to pay for said information, they should legally be required to refuse.
 
It's against US law for a political campaign to receive information/assistance/funding from a foreign power.

/thread

Is it against the law for a journalist to receive information from a foreign government?
 
THE FULL QUESTION IN CONTEXT: Should US journalists be banned from publicizing information, that may reasonably hurt/help any election campaign/party, that is received from a foreign government?

Obviously, this may merit more than one answer, depending on the concept, but I'm more interested to see how our registered democrats would respond, as a compared to those on the libertarian/libertarian-left side of the spectrum.

News worthy news is newsworthy news...
 
It's against US law for a political campaign to receive information/assistance/funding from a foreign power.

/thread

What law is that?

Why was Dan Rather not arrested for interviewing Bin Laden (I think it was Dan)?
 
No. What an asinine question.

Apple, meet orange.

If Congress passes it's silly little law, it will apply to reporters, too. It'll have to. There's only one 1st Amendment and it's applied to everyone.
 
I would like to see a proof that that's the same argument. I'm not saying that no politician CAN'T or SHOULDN'T hide what they're doing....and indeed, for some things, they have a reason too, like secret weapons projects and etc. What I'm saying is that politicians, as public figures, have no right to EXPECT privacy.

Well, in fact they should expect privacy in their private communications. The Trump people should expect that Norway is not in fact recording all the calls of everyone in their campaign and will contact Warren's campaign with a data dump, that Warren's campaign will happily accept and then release at opportune times, cherry picked conversations and all. All those things are in fact CRIMES.

They can do anything they want to secure themselves against such things, and yes, where the situation is from one of our own, they should be prosecuted for illegal actions. But politicians should expect that competing governments might know if they do something corrupt. We can't control a national government, unless they want to punish them with sanctions or war, and good luck with that. There is a vast difference between a government surveilling a government, and government survelling their own citizens.

But what you're arguing FOR is Warren's people meeting and gladly accepting from a foreign intelligence service a data dump of hacked communications about Trump. So they'd be party to a crime.

The media as a whole takes things out of context, so I don't really think that matters, and if did matter, then voters are clearly much more sensitive to such things that I though.

The point was that lots of legal stuff can be damaging if leaked. I don't know what you talk about every day, but I'm assuming you do nothing illegal, but still don't want your entire digital life dumped, what web sites you visit, the content of your camera, all your emails and texts. And even if you don't care, many would care and they've done nothing illegal or even immoral in many cases.

I don't think it's FINE for a government to do that, much less russia, but I wouldn't fault the campaign for taking the oppo information.

In other words, it's fine. If you don't blame a campaign for happily accepting the information, then you are absolutely saying it's totally fine for Russia or anyone else to get it however they can, legal, illegal, makes no difference to you in this scenario.

But again, legally, there is no difference between corporate journalists, and any other entity acting as publishers of said information. None. What law stops Trump's head of PR from saying "Acting as a journalist here, here is all the emails Russia gave us. We hope the FBI punishes russia for what they did!"

Campaign finance laws. All the things Mueller just spent two years investigating.
Now, if a campaign PAID for the material, then I agree, that is collusion. The fact that Hillary Clinton essentially took over the DNC, and may have used funds to pay for the salacious steel dossier to monitor trump should have all of us worried. Paying for such material, I say, IS collusion and possibly conspiracy, as there is now a money trail, and financial incentive for them to take illegal actions. It's already a dark area to contract out a US investigator to do such a thing.....but at least we can trust he would do it legally. To contract out a foreign government though, should be illegal, and I would be shocked if it already isn't.

It's not remotely illegal to hire a foreign person to work for your campaign in any capacity, and it's never even been alleged Steele did anything illegal in his research. And it's not a 'dark area' to do opposition research. There is no doubt Trump's people paid for oppo research, or if they didn't they were incompetents. And who contracted out with a foreign GOVERNMENT?

But in this case, it seems like Russia literally said "oh, we happened to find this out about clinton, here you go", no evidence, that I can see, that money was exchanged, or that they had even planned it out. It seems that russia sat on this information for years, and gave it to Trump after it looked like he would win the R nomination. While it's shady, yea, that's not something I would hold against the campaign. If someone said they had oppo research on my opponent and said "here you go" for free, I wouldn't care where it came from. I'd take it and run with it. But by all means, punish russia, somehow, preferably without causing loss of life.

OK, so again Trump has moved the bar into the muck and working with a foreign intelligence agency to dig up damaging information, obtained illegally, is just fine.
 
I don't think that's okay for a campaign to "systematically" collude with a foreign government, nor do I believe, having watched the chaos that was the Trump campaign, actually "colluded" with Russia. It was never okay to buy information obtained illegally from a foreign government. But if someone just randomly comes up to you and says "hey, I know something about your opponent, and here's proof", then of course it's okay to take it and use it, even if it was obtained illegally.

It's actually not OK. That is a crime.

However, I will compromise, and say that all contact with foreign governments should be reported to the FBI, so at least they know that information is being shared and can help with any security and counter-intel. But as far as punishing the campaign itself, in that instance, no.

Again, don't get me wrong. If they have to pay for said information, they should legally be required to refuse.

Essentially we're at the point where if Trump did it, it's OK, and so therefore going forward that is the new ethical standard for future candidates. It's pretty depressing actually how easily we just abandon all our sense of ethics.
 
Campaign finance laws. All the things Mueller just spent two years investigating.
what "finance law" was involved in that? I gave an example. I never mentioned anything about money. What "finance" should be regulated?

But again, legally, there is no difference between corporate journalists, and any other entity acting as publishers of said information. None. What law stops Trump's head of PR from saying "Acting as a journalist here, here is all the emails Russia gave us. We hope the FBI punishes russia for what they did!"
 
If Congress passes it's silly little law, it will apply to reporters, too. It'll have to. There's only one 1st Amendment and it's applied to everyone.

Which is irrelevant to the fact it's an asinine question.

Next non-sequitor, please.
 
what "finance law" was involved in that? I gave an example. I never mentioned anything about money. What "finance" should be regulated?

Go back and review what Mueller investigated for not quite two years. All those potential crimes are the ones that would be broken in your scenario.

The general assumption is that information has a value and foreign entities/individuals are prohibited from contributing to domestic campaign, and accepting something of value (i.e. information) is also illegal.

I'm not going to rehash 100s of articles on what potential crimes Mueller might have found. If you're interested look them up. Let's just say it's a crime to 'conspire' with a foreign government to influence a domestic campaign. Surely you recognize that it must be illegal. If not then it's open season for every interested government on the planet to direct immense resources not just at elections for President but governors, Congress, state houses and others, and use the information obtained, and happily accepted by candidates, to throw elections at every level in this country, or to blackmail or bribe existing office holders.

And Trump's head of PR is NOT a journalist. You are pretending that's an irrelevant detail, but it's not, in the law or ethically.
 
Go back and review what Mueller investigated for not quite two years. All those potential crimes are the ones that would be broken in your scenario.

The general assumption is that information has a value and foreign entities/individuals are prohibited from contributing to domestic campaign, and accepting something of value (i.e. information) is also illegal.

I'm not going to rehash 100s of articles on what potential crimes Mueller might have found. If you're interested look them up. Let's just say it's a crime to 'conspire' with a foreign government to influence a domestic campaign. Surely you recognize that it must be illegal. If not then it's open season for every interested government on the planet to direct immense resources not just at elections for President but governors, Congress, state houses and others, and use the information obtained, and happily accepted by candidates, to throw elections at every level in this country, or to blackmail or bribe existing office holders.

And Trump's head of PR is NOT a journalist. You are pretending that's an irrelevant detail, but it's not, in the law or ethically.

What law declares one to be a journalist? Is there a certication process? A license requirement?
 
What law declares one to be a journalist? Is there a certication process? A license requirement?

There's this thing called Google. Look it up if you're interested.
 
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