Should Trump pardon himself before he leaves office?

[Sietske22]

You cannot pardon yourself.

No court would respect such a move.

 

[noonereal]

do you think Trump should pardon himself before Wednesday?

I doubt he does. He would be taken as an admission of guilt and has a very low probability of holding up in court.

 

[Sietske22]

i wouldn't be surprised if he tried.

SCOTUS would strike down such a move, 9-0.

 

[Rexedgar]

How would a self pardon be overturned?


Pardons are irreversible, right?

 

[noonereal]

Love this public poll.

The usual suspects.

 

[Sietske22]

How would a self pardon be overturned?


Pardons are irreversible, right?

Court could simply rule the pardon was null & void, or illegal.

 

[Rexedgar]

Court could simply rule the pardon was null & void, or illegal.

Courts don’t just rule on something, someone has to bring a suit. Who would bring a suit and on what grounds?

If the pardon power is absolute and cannot be reversed why wouldn’t trump try?



I’m just looking for discourse here, anyone posting here longer than two weeks know what I think of the current Administration.

 

[fredmertzz]

What does he think he has done that would need pardoning? By his own declaration in every newsworthy event, he has done nothing wrong. Assuming he's not a liar, I would not expect him to pardon himself.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Well, certainly. Why not? If he can possibly immunize himself from prosecution at the Federal level for possibly violating Federal election interference laws as well as criminal incitement, it certainly stands to reason. But do I think he should? No. Both for moral reasons and the fact that I want to see him criminally prosecuted, and for the fact that I believe that such an act would be legally futile. The of course, a Court (possibly the Supreme Court) would have to rule on the matter once he does it and if it is challenged.

If Trump self-pardons and it stands, it effectively ends the rule of law in our country.

 

[Dragonfly]

do you think Trump should pardon himself before Wednesday

I hope he tries.

Would love to see who defends such a move, and who rips him to shreds over it.

Might be the final nail in the Trump coffin we’ve all been waiting for.

 

[Visbek]

It’s been reported that Trump has discussed a self-pardon for crimes and future crimes he may commit.

he also displayed a sterling understanding of Constitutional law by assuring the public, by tweet, that he had an “absolute right” to pardon himself.

do you think Trump should pardon himself before Wednesday?

Clearly, he shouldn't. The President should not be above the law, and should not be his own judge and jury. Obviously it would cause yet another constitutional crisis.

It is possible he will try it. However, there is an argument that a pardon needs to be specific, and much state which crimes are pardoned. If that's the case, then Trump pardoning himself would be an admission of guilt. It might also expose him to prosecution for those crimes by individual states.

At this point, though, I'm not sure his reputation could get any worse. 1/6 fulfilled many of his opponent's worst allegations, and trashed his standing with establishment Republicans and donors; Fox News support for him is slipping; it is unlikely he will be able, let alone allowed, to run for any other office; he's already lost his biggest megaphones; McConnell wants to bury him; many of his staunchest defenders (like Cruz and Hawley) are really just vultures waiting to pick up his base; and that base will soon collapse into a neutron star of white supremacists, QAnon freaks and other losers who won't want to drop him. So, perhaps he thinks he has nothing more to lose....

 

[AmNat]

No court will accept a self-pardon. It will be tossed out.

Yeah, the system is likely bent on putting him away, and probably won't allow any procedural rules to get in their way. Still, it's worth a shot.

 

[upsideguy]

If the power of a pardon is absolute, as the constitution clearly says, then any attempt to prosecute him would create precedent that would show that our current constitution is no longer in effect, which would show that our government is now pure force and the only question is who is wielding it.

Actually, the Constitution says no such thing. It says this: ".....The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment....."

There is one sentence about pardons. It does NOT say its absolute. It certainly does not say he can pardon himself. It does say his pardon power is limited by impeachment, but that is not explained (some argue that no pardons issued since last Wednesday are worth the paper they are written on.... and that Trump can not pardon the insurrectionists as they are associated with the crime for which he has been impeached). Trump likely can not pardon himself for his role in the insurrection. His prosecution as a private citizen for such likely can not be pardoned away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-impeachment-would-strip-him-that-power/

The idea that a President that can pardon himself is completely nonsensical. For that do exist would be that the President is above the law. It would violate a fundamental tenet of jurisprudence: a man can not be his own judge. That would be antithetical to the notion that we were a country of laws and the President served the people. Do you believe the founding fathers intended to replace King George of England with King George of Virginia?

Explainer: Can Trump pardon himself? Would the courts reject the move?

As he prepares to end a tumultuous four years as U.S. president facing potential legal jeopardy, Donald Trump has discussed the possibility of pardoning himself, according to a source familiar with the matter. But there are questions about whether a president's broad executive...

www.reuters.com

If Trump pardoned himself, he would create a Constitutional question, that would likely be quickly resolved, but it would not be a crisis.

Then again, why are you hiding behind the Constitution. You seemingly are not one that particularly cares about it; case in point, are you ready to declare Biden President, as he has been duly elected in accordance with the Constitution?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Actually, the Constitution says no such thing. It says this: ".....The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment....."

There is one sentence about pardons. It does NOT say its absolute. It certainly does not say he can pardon himself. It does say his pardon power is limited by impeachment, but that is not explained (some argue that no pardons issued since last Wednesday are worth the paper they are written on.... and that Trump can not pardon the insurrectionists as they are associated with the crime for which he has been impeached). Trump likely can not pardon himself for his role in the insurrection. His prosecution as a private citizen for such likely can not be pardoned away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-impeachment-would-strip-him-that-power/

The idea that a President that can pardon himself is completely nonsensical. For that do exist would be that the President is above the law. It would violate a fundamental tenet of jurisprudence: a man can not be his own judge. That would be antithetical to the notion that we were a country of laws and the President served the people. Do you believe the founding fathers intended to replace King George of England with King George of Virginia?

Explainer: Can Trump pardon himself? Would the courts reject the move?

As he prepares to end a tumultuous four years as U.S. president facing potential legal jeopardy, Donald Trump has discussed the possibility of pardoning himself, according to a source familiar with the matter. But there are questions about whether a president's broad executive...

www.reuters.com

If Trump pardoned himself, he would create a Constitutional question, that would likely be quickly resolved, but it would not be a crisis.

Then again, why are you hiding behind the Constitution. You seemingly are not one that particularly cares about it; case in point, are you ready to declare Biden President, as he has been duly elected in accordance with the Constitution?

you are able to spill a lot of ink because unfortunately you are the victim of an education system that didn’t teach good reading comprehension.

all that sentence means is that a president cannot pardon themselves to prevent impeachment. End story.

as far as King George versus King George, well there were founding fathers who wanted just that, Alexander Hamilton comes to mind.

 

[Sietske22]

If the power of a pardon is absolute, as the constitution clearly says, then any attempt to prosecute him would create precedent that would show that our current constitution is no longer in effect, which would show that our government is now pure force and the only question is who is wielding it.

if the Supreme Court rules 9 to 0 that the President cannot pardon themself, our Constitution is no longer valid?

Talk about pathetic hyperbole. Do you REALLY want Presidents pardoning themselves??? Really? That would make us no longer a Republic as only a King or Dictator is above the law.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

if the Supreme Court rules 9 to 0 that the President cannot pardon themself, our Constitution is no longer valid?

Talk about pathetic hyperbole. Do you REALLY want Presidents pardoning themselves??? Really? That would make us no longer a Republic as only a King or Dictator is above the law.

Our constitution is no longer valid now. The court ruling a president cannot pardon himself is just an outward indicator. If the court rules he can pardon himself the left will immediately denounce the court as illegitimate and demand it be packed.

so either way it’s just one more open indication the constitution doesn’t matter.

 

[Sietske22]

Our constitution is no longer valid now. The court ruling a president cannot pardon himself is just an outward indicator. If the court rules he can pardon himself the left will immediately denounce the court as illegitimate and demand it be packed.

so either way it’s just one more open indication the constitution doesn’t matter.

Bla bla bla.

You're just making shit up.

The Constitution never says the President's power to issue pardons is absolute or without limit.

All it says is "..and he shall have the Power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment".

 

[Rexedgar]

What does he think he has done that would need pardoning? By his own declaration in every newsworthy event, he has done nothing wrong. Assuming he's not a liar, I would not expect him to pardon himself.

You’re not new here?????

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Bla bla bla.

You're just making shit up.

The Constitution never says the President's power to issue pardons is absolute or without limit.

All it says is "..and he shall have the Power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment".

Yes, impeachment is not a criminal cause of action. It is not a criminal one, all this means is a pardon cannot stop a congressional impeachment. End story. It does not mean an impeached president cannot pardon himself or anyone else.

 

[Sietske22]

I think its very telling that "Republicans" want Trump to have the power to pardon himself.

So much for wanting a Republic, more like they support dictatorship.

 

[Sietske22]

Yes, impeachment is not a criminal cause of action. It is not a criminal one, all this means is a pardon cannot stop a congressional impeachment. End story. It does not mean an impeached president cannot pardon himself or anyone else.

So you think Trump is a King, not just an elected leader of the people.

Great.

 

[j brown's body]

Pardoning himself, while absurd, would surely lead to his conviction in the senate.

 

[Sietske22]

The concept that no man can pardon themselves, is a truism.

Or for those with limited vocabulary, its soo ****ing obvious that the Founders felt no need to include such a rule as they assumed that the American people would be smart enough to understand this.

Perhaps they were wrong. Sigh.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So you think Trump is a King, not just an elected leader of the people.

Great.

I am sorry the education system in Canada is such a joke that you cannot reason properly.

 

[jonny5]

For those who havent read the constitution, he cant.

he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.