Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets? (1 Viewer)

[jamesrage]

I know this probably not a pc subject or question,So **** you pc idiots.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=2665713
BEIT LAHIYA, Gaza Strip Nov 19, 2006 (AP)— Hundreds of Palestinians serving as human shields guarded the homes of two top militants Sunday, a new tactic that forced Israel to call off missile strikes on the buildings and re-evaluate a mainstay of its aerial campaign in Gaza.



My view is that If you voluntarily become a human shield then your enemy has no obligation to avoid hitting you.Of course I think human shields are valid military targets because of the fact if we allow the enemy to get away with using human shields they will continue to do so and next thing you know these will be standard issue military flak vest.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

If you volunteer to go into harms way in order to protect a military asset, then you;re a legitimate target.

 

[Kandahar]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

If they've chosen to be there, then they really aren't any different from a soldier. Other than the fact that they aren't being paid and don't have a uniform.

We shouldn't specifically target them, but there's no real reason to avoid them if it's otherwise desirable to hit the target.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Definetly.. I don't see the difference between them and a rocket or a jeep. Except maybe the rocket and the jeep know there being used, and are smarter then these sheeple. If your going to put yourself in harms way then you should be a military target, at the least your acceptable collateral damage.

 

[Morrow]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

At that point they are no longer protected under LOAC and are military targets, but Isreal obviously don't want to piss people off too much.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How do you decipher between a voluntary human shield and an involuntary human shield?

The moment you step over this fine line is the moment that you start to become the very evil which you are fighting.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How do you decipher between a voluntary human shield and an involuntary human shield?

The moment you step over this fine line is the moment that you start to become the very evil which you are fighting.

Sorry but an involuntary human shield is the fault of the people using them as human shields not the fault of the people trying to kill the people who are using them as human shields.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Sorry but an involuntary human shield is the fault of the people using them as human shields not the fault of the people trying to kill the people who are using them as human shields.

Let me rephrase. How does the person shooting at the target decipher between voluntary and involuntary human shields. There isn't exactly a big sign that says "I'm a volunteer human shield, shoot me"
Also my argument is not assigning fault.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Let me rephrase. How does the person shooting at the target decipher between voluntary and involuntary human shields. There isn't exactly a big sign that says "I'm a volunteer human shield, shoot me"
Also my argument is not assigning fault.

Are involuntary human shields handcuffed and shackled to rocket launchers? Because unless thats the situation there is no difference and they are then collateral damage. Not to mention I have yet to see an involuntary human shield. You live in an area they are using to fire rockets from, you stay in that area they are firing rockets from. You have tpo realize there is going to be retailiatory strikes, and you are in the vicinity. If you don't want to die.....MOVE!!!!!!

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Are involuntary human shields handcuffed and shackled to rocket launchers? Because unless thats the situation there is no difference and they are then collateral damage. Not to mention I have yet to see an involuntary human shield. You live in an area they are using to fire rockets from, you stay in that area they are firing rockets from. You have tpo realize there is going to be retaliatory strikes, and you are in the vicinity. If you don't want to die.....MOVE!!!!!!

You are absolutely right.It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if your neighbor is launching attacks at another country then your neighbor is going to get hit and most likely you too because your right next your neighbor.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How do you decipher between a voluntary human shield and an involuntary human shield?

The moment you step over this fine line is the moment that you start to become the very evil which you are fighting.

Why let the enemy get away with using human shields in the first place?The only thing you do is encourage the use of more human shields.The only reason for using a human shield is so that you can attack the enemy without fear of getting attacked,because morons in the media will sit there say look at how many "innocent people" were killed in a Israeli air strike today and then terrorist sympathizers buy it all up.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Why let the enemy get away with using human shields in the first place?The only thing you do is encourage the use of more human shields.The only reason for using a human shield is so that you can attack the enemy without fear of getting attacked,because morons in the media will sit there say look at how many "innocent people" were killed in a Israeli air strike today and then terrorist sympathizers buy it all up.

It's all about pc for you isn't it? What you don't understand is that not targeting or shooting at civilians has nothing to do with PC. Look up Geneva convention and you will see why.
However that is not in anyway your original premise. Your original premise blindly states for the purpose of arguing a non- argument of whether or not volunteer shields should be fair game. In itself agreeing with the rational that civilians should not be targeted and thus bringing on the question which you have avoided to answer. How do you decipher between volunteer and involuntary human shields?
THe simple fact is that you can not and have no ability to. Hence a stupid question from the start.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

It's all about pc for you isn't it? What you don't understand is that not targeting or shooting at civilians has nothing to do with PC. Look up Geneva convention and you will see why.
However that is not in anyway your original premise. Your original premise blindly states for the purpose of arguing a non- argument of whether or not volunteer shields should be fair game. In itself agreeing with the rational that civilians should not be targeted and thus bringing on the question which you have avoided to answer.

When they are trying to protect terrorist they are no longer civilians.

How do you decipher between volunteer and involuntary human shields?

ABC,CBS, and even Al-Jazeera said these people were volunteering to be human shield.Another clue is if you know that missiles have been fired form a certain location for awhile and no one has moved away that also is a pretty good indicator that those people have volunteered to be human shields.

THe simple fact is that you can not and have no ability to. Hence a stupid question from the start.

Personally I do not think it should matter one war or the other if the human shields are volunteers.By not attacking you are encouraging the use of more human shields.But if you read the ABC story you would know who the human shields are in question and whether or not it is easy to tell if these people are volunteer human shields.


The only thing I see you are doing is to make up pathetic excuses to avoid answering the poll,obviously you support the use of human shields.You basically support terrorist strappings civilians to themselves and just shootting anyone in site.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

When they are trying to protect terrorist they are no longer civilians.

Notice I'm not arguing against that at all? In fact if you look at how I voted I agree.
However again, how do you distinguish from voluntary with involuntary.

ABC,CBS, and even Al-Jazeera said these people were volunteering to be human shield.Another clue is if you know that missiles have been fired form a certain location for awhile and no one has moved away that also is a pretty good indicator that those people have volunteered to be human shields.

Yes ABC, CBS and Al-Jazeera are certainly the greatest sources on determining something of this nature:roll:
As had been brought up in the gun vs free speech thread. You can do quite a bit when you have a gun pointed at someone else's head, including but not limited to forcing them to stay through a missile strike. Just because they are there is still not indicative nor suggestive that they are volunteers.

Personally I do not think it should matter one war or the other if the human shields are volunteers.By not attacking you are encouraging the use of more human shields.But if you read the ABC story you would know who the human shields are in question and whether or not it is easy to tell if these people are volunteer human shields.

2 things, 1 your link does not work
2. By the geneva convention and various other conducts of war adapted by this and other nations, civilians are not targets period.
Again, I have not disagreed that "volunteers" are no longer civilians, however you can not distinguish between them.
And given the your article speaks of one case that shows distinguishability does not validate your second claim that they should all be targeted.

The only thing I see you are doing is to make up pathetic excuses to avoid answering the poll,obviously you support the use of human shields.You basically support terrorist strappings civilians to themselves and just shootting anyone in site.

Wrong genius, I've answered the poll, click on your own "visible polling". Instead of lieing just to make a point.

 

[MSgt]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

No.



The use of human shields is a long time tactic of our enemies. Religious terrorists and their Radical fighters use our morality and our 'Laws of War' to take advantage. They shoot from within crowds in hopes that the American troop will not fire back. However, the Marine and soldier training in urban environments involve accurate shooting and precise targetting. I am reminded of a fire fight in Fallujah where Marines aimed and pulled their trigger with one hand and threw down civilians with the other. While they do slow our trigger time down, they ultimately only place their people in harms way. We have to accept the fact that they care as much for their civilians as they do for their religion. We also have to accept the fact that civilians are going to die and all of those that are used or choose to be used as human shields are the responsibility of Allah's warriors. If they use their family members as shields then they assume all responsibility for what happens to them.

No, they should not be considered military targets, but we have to accept that it can't slow our attack either.

 

[aquapub]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How do you decipher between a voluntary human shield and an involuntary human shield?

The moment you step over this fine line is the moment that you start to become the very evil which you are fighting.

If we aren't going to charge traitors with treason anymore, which numerous actions by liberals going un-punished have proved we don't (calling terrorists to let them know the FBI is coming, needlessly exposing the inner-workings of a classified anti-terror program, taking bribes from an enemy nation, etc.), then the least we could do is disregard their well-being while fighting the enemy.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

If we aren't going to charge traitors with treason anymore, which numerous actions by liberals going un-punished have proved we don't (calling terrorists to let them know the FBI is coming, needlessly exposing the inner-workings of a classified anti-terror program, taking bribes from an enemy nation, etc.), then the least we could do is disregard their well-being while fighting the enemy.

Bla bla bla bla bla blame the liberals.:roll:

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Bla bla bla bla bla blame the liberals.:roll:

Are there any instances of involuntary human shields?

 

[Kandahar]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Are there any instances of involuntary human shields?

Ya, Hamas regularly uses them in Gaza Strip. While I think they should be taken into account when considering civilian casualties (unlike voluntary human shields), sometimes it may be necessary to strike anyway.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Ya, Hamas regularly uses them in Gaza Strip. While I think they should be taken into account when considering civilian casualties (unlike voluntary human shields), sometimes it may be necessary to strike anyway.

How are they involuntary? Are they handcuffed in place? Tied to a rocket launcher? Super glued to a pound of C4? Exactly how are they involuntary human shields.?? Please explain this to me

 

[Kandahar]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How are they involuntary? Are they handcuffed in place? Tied to a rocket launcher? Super glued to a pound of C4? Exactly how are they involuntary human shields.?? Please explain this to me

Hamas fires rockets from civilian neighborhoods. And it's not like someone living in the Gaza Strip can just pick up and move to a safe place. Egypt and Israel have both walled their borders off, and Gaza is one of the most densely populated places in the world.

So essentially, every spot in Gaza is a target because Hamas has chosen to make it so.

 

[MSgt]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

How are they involuntary? Are they handcuffed in place? Tied to a rocket launcher? Super glued to a pound of C4? Exactly how are they involuntary human shields.?? Please explain this to me

It can be as simple as an enemy opening up his AK from behind a crowd in a market. Once the shooting starts, he has made the crowd an "involuntary" shield.

Also, it's as simple as placing rocket sights inside a neighborhood. People aren't going to move out of their homes every time an idiot decides to park his weapons in their yards.

This is where all those zealots and "God" warriors assume all responsibility for what happens to the people they endanger.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

So essentially, every spot in Gaza is a target because Hamas has chosen to make it so.

Yes essentially it is blame Hamas not Israel.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

There's no such thing as an "illegitimate target" in the first place. There's only "collateral damage" and "friendly fire".

I have no problem counting "human shields" among the former, whether they're voluntary or not.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should those who volunteer to become human sheilds be considered military targets

Also, it's as simple as placing rocket sights inside a neighborhood. People aren't going to move out of their homes every time an idiot decides to park his weapons in their yards.

I imagine it takes some effort to place rockets inside a neighborhood.If people realized that their being there is not going to deter the enemy they may be motivated to pack their **** up and move and to perhaps be encouraged to kick out the terrorist trying to set up shop in their neighborhood.