• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should those that pay no taxes be allowed a vote?

For those who are dependants of the government, why not enact government service for a period of 2 weeks or 1 weekend or whatever? Just something to give back.

or say have those on the dole cut the grass or shovel snow for those who pay for the dole. If a doctor didn't have to cut his lawn or shovel snow he might have more time to practice medicine meaning more money generated that is taxed to help pay for those on the public umbilical cord
 
It would be an interesting concept. How many freeloaders on society would change their habits if they lost their voting privileges. It is so frustrating to see these drains on society having a say in who leads the country.
 
It would be an interesting concept. How many freeloaders on society would change their habits if they lost their voting privileges. It is so frustrating to see these drains on society having a say in who leads the country.

well the government would not be making so much effort trying to buy their votes. this would of course would mean less freeloading. its a win win scenario
 
well the government would not be making so much effort trying to buy their votes. this would of course would mean less freeloading. its a win win scenario

This is the only reason Obama was re-elected. It is sickening.
 
This is the only reason Obama was re-elected. It is sickening.

a majority of voters wanted ice cream and candy rather than being told to eat healthy and exercise
 
The founding father's may have believed that we are divinely entitled to those rights but to say that they are unalienable in practical terms is incredibly naive. They're just words on paper and they're only as true as the powers that be make them. The United States has fallen into the age old political abyss that considers the security of the State to supersede the rights of the individual. It happened during WWII, it happened under McCarthyism, and its happening now. You think your rights are unalienable? Tell that to the soldier who disappears you into a military brig or a CIA facility in eastern Europe for a few years because someone called you an enemy combatant.

sir, understand perfectly what you are saying, rights have been under assault, and taken away, you and i don't have any disagreement with that, my argument is what the founders created, and why it has gone in to the abyss.

because the powers that be, and the people have removed the checks and balances of government, which limited -----> federal government power.

people are calling for more democracy, and that is NOT the answer, because it is democracy that got us to this abyss.

as people become more wanting of the federal government to see to their needs, this empowers government more, and they use that to take away liberty.
 
Almost nobody pays NO taxes.

Besides income tax, there are SS/medicare taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes. There are also "value added" taxes on business that show up in higher prices on innumerable products that we all buy. There are Fed taxes and State taxes and local taxes and regulatory costs and fees and fines and blah blah ad nauseum...

Almost everyone pays some kind of tax, unless they are utterly dependent on gov charity, or else homeless.

again the figure is 47% of the people who file a federal tax return, have no tax liability...it is not 47% of the population.
 
First thing I thought when I read this thread was...now wouldnt the rich and powerful that have it all and run it all just love to have all their oppositions right to vote away...thankfully it will always remain someones I wish
 
you missed where i stated the warfare state....so i had include that already.

1.8 trillion on entitlements
1.4 on operations of government and -->military
360 billion interest on the national debt.

with legislative control of senators... warfare state corporations cannot lobby senators...because the states direct their vote.

if you are wondering why our government is spending so much on waste......WELL only the "house can appropriate money".......the senate cannot make any spending happen unless the "people's house" approves it........so your representatives of the people that you advocate for more OF are approving all this spending!

you act as though the people cannot be corrupt, .............. any 1 ,few many, the people can be corrupted, they are not immune.

1) Yes, the House appropriates money. But the only means of direct democracy that the people have to control the House is electing them. Once in office, there is very little the people can do to in regards to what Representatives do, except vote or not vote for them in the next election.

2) It could be argued that if we had more processes of direct democracy, the people would have more tools to monitor what Representatives, as well as Senators, do once while in office.

3) I did not say that with direct democratic process things would not be corrupt. However, they would be less corrupt, as the corruption would be so spread out as to not make much of a difference - an argument you yourself have made in regards to allowing state legislators elect our Senators.

4) By limiting power to a few you concentrate the possibility for corruption, and our circumstances would be even worse than what they are now.
 
For those who are dependants of the government, why not enact government service for a period of 2 weeks or 1 weekend or whatever? Just something to give back.

I have no problem with the members of boards of directors of companies who profit from government contracts doing such a thing.
 
I have no problem with the members of boards of directors of companies who profit from government contracts doing such a thing.

OOoo...I see what you did there. Clever.

But I think it should hold true for big and small. If you government assisted, you owe time. Our government has an agreement with the airlines for bailing them out, why not for GE when it doesn't pay taxes?

Makes sense to me, if you are government assisted, you owe time.
 
1) Yes, the House appropriates money. But the only means of direct democracy that the people have to control the House is electing them. Once in office, there is very little the people can do to in regards to what Representatives do, except vote or not vote for them in the next election.

2) It could be argued that if we had more processes of direct democracy, the people would have more tools to monitor what Representatives, as well as Senators, do once while in office.

3) I did not say that with direct democratic process things would not be corrupt. However, they would be less corrupt, as the corruption would be so spread out as to not make much of a difference - an argument you yourself have made in regards to allowing state legislators elect our Senators.

4) By limiting power to a few you concentrate the possibility for corruption, and our circumstances would be even worse than what they are now.


OK, you tell me if i have it right what your saying about not having control of our representatives.

the people are electing their representatives to congress, , but those representatives are not listening to the people and are enacting things in the name of special interest or faction as Madison called it?

so in the house representatives the only democratic thread of -->republican government, the representatives of the PEOPLE .......are not listening to the people?

the member's of the senate, because NOW it is a democratic process, and elected by the PEOPLE........... are not listening to the people either.

so we have now the house and senate being lobbied by all sort of groups, with those groups lobbying for laws, money, things which benefit them and not the people...........do i have you correct up to this point?

now you explain to me, in a nation the size we are, and the people most of them not understanding the legislative process, how we are going to have the people vote directly and regularly, and know what they are voting on to control both branches of the legislature so they work in the people's interest, since people are to busy in their daily lifes.



in republican government of the founding fathers, senators CANNOT be lobbied, because it done not matter what special interest group try's to, because the senator HAS TO VOTE according to his state legislators, he is not FREE as he is today to make his own personal choice.

to lobby for 51 senators vote, you would have to lobby over 26 state legislative bodies,that would take a lot of money and time.......not a practical thing to even try to do. since legislative bodies work in the interest of the states, this special interest groups, would find it very difficult, to get what they want passed.

since legislators are NOT going to allow their senators to vote for any legislation, which diminishes the ------>states power...by the federal government more.
 
Last edited:
A Republic, Not A Democracy

A Republic, Not A Democracy - YouTube

TYPES OF GOVERNMENTS, THE ORDER OF POWER

[DEMOCRACY].........................................[CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC]

BANKS-------------------------------------------------------GOD
MAJORITY-----------------------------------------------INDIVIDUAL
GOVERNMENT-----------------------------------------CONSTITUTION
PUBLIC SERVANTS------------------------------------GOVERNMENT
CASE & STATUTE LAW------------------------------PUBLIC SERVANTS
CORPORATIONS----------------------------------------STATUE LAW
INDIVIDUAL-------------------------------------------CORPORATIONS
 
Last edited:
This is the only reason Obama was re-elected. It is sickening.

Another big government Republican calling himself a Libertarian.

You can't call yourself a proponent of individual liberty when you're supporting disenfranchisement of the poor.

You know deployed combat troops don't pay income taxes, right?
 
For those who are dependants of the government, why not enact government service for a period of 2 weeks or 1 weekend or whatever? Just something to give back.

Forced labor for the very poor. How very libertarian of you.
 
Should those that pay no taxes be allowed a vote?

No, obviously - disfranchise the thieving rich NOW!
 
A Republic, Not A Democracy

A Republic, Not A Democracy - YouTube

TYPES OF GOVERNMENTS, THE ORDER OF POWER

[DEMOCRACY].........................................[CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC]

BANKS-------------------------------------------------------GOD
MAJORITY-----------------------------------------------INDIVIDUAL
GOVERNMENT-----------------------------------------CONSTITUTION
PUBLIC SERVANTS------------------------------------GOVERNMENT
CASE & STATUTE LAW------------------------------PUBLIC SERVANTS
CORPORATIONS----------------------------------------STATUE LAW
INDIVIDUAL-------------------------------------------CORPORATIONS

This rightwing meme never dies.

We vote for representatives based on majority rule. We have a representative democracy. Get use to it.

Heck, we can even vote to change the Constitution. And we've done it lots of time.

Sorry, democracy works. Rightwing memes, not so much.
 
This rightwing meme never dies.

We vote for representative based on majority rule. We have a representative democracy. Get use to it.

we have moved closer to representative democracy since 1913, we were not created as a democracy but a constitutional republic based on law...not majority rule.
 
we have moved closer to representative democracy since 1913, we were not created as a democracy but a constitutional republic based on law...not majority rule.

You better be quiet, or he'll use the word "meme" again. :lol:
 
Let me put it another way: What incentive do I have to not revolt in a system that denies me a vote? If I can't vote, i have no way to change the system if my rights are not being respected. If I have no legal way to make my needs known to the government, then revolution is my only option.
 
With all due respect, yes he is making a point, if you are going to disagree with it, at least explain yourself...


the right to vote is not dependent on federal taxpayer status, nor should it be.
 
With all due respect, yes he is making a point, if you are going to disagree with it, at least explain yourself...

the idea that we should take the right to vote away from those who make so little money that they pay no federal income taxes / retired people is preposterous ; so much so that it is unworthy of debate.

however, since you asked, the majority of them still pay for social security and Medicare, so removing their right to vote would amount to taxation without representation.

if voter suppression is your best path to victory, you're doing something wrong.
 
Another big government Republican calling himself a Libertarian.

You can't call yourself a proponent of individual liberty when you're supporting disenfranchisement of the poor.

You know deployed combat troops don't pay income taxes, right?



Obama is creating more and more of the poor. How much is enough?
 
Back
Top Bottom