Should the US increase military commitments with the Philippines against China’s growing dominance in the South China Sea?

[Fledermaus]

As I'd said, I published something from NATO because the thread is full of stuff from Russia.

The PutinTrumpRowers

Neither did I publish everything from NATO. Cause that would be a lot, wouldn't it.

Just a little something from 'em, about the Russian S-400 Growler in particular.

Because as I'd said, so much at the thread comes from Russia. The Moscow Mafia. AKA: The Putin Kneejerkers. Cause Putin's their guy and Trump is their vehicle to get there.

Tangmobabble... Tangmobabble everywhere......

 

[Tangmo]

Well you fools on the left have foreclosed any possibility of getting Russia on board with American foreign policy.

Putin just passed a law forbidding homosexuals from brainwashing kids and the left has been so Russo-phobic ever since. Including inventing conspiracies out of whole cloth.

Given the Russians have Trump & His Rowers in the USA there's zero reason the Kremlin would want to go in with USA foreign or defense policy against CCP-PRC Boyz in Beijing.

Indeed, Your Guy Putin is well positioned in the United States and throughout the USA to destroy it from within. Putin won't succeed but that's the primary rationale in Moscow for not needing or wanting to join with the USA against China in foreign and military policy, not that Washington would want to do that either cause they don't.

So You PutinTrumpRowers in USA need to give up the ghost about the racist wet dream that USA & Russia would team up against China. We don't need you guyz in this or in anything else, ie, you are disposable, same as a diaper is.

As for Your Guy Putin and gay Russians he's been banging that drum for a decade so perhaps you should check the date on your newspaper. It's probably an identical story from 2012 reprinted. Your being an avid consumer of Putin's every word you shouldn't mind.

 

[Fledermaus]

Given the Russians have Trump & His Rowers in the USA there's zero reason the Kremlin would want to go in with USA foreign or defense policy against CCP-PRC Boyz in Beijing.

Indeed, Your Guy Putin is well positioned in the United States and throughout the USA to destroy it from within. Putin won't succeed but that's the primary rationale in Moscow for not needing or wanting to join with the USA against China in foreign and military policy, not that Washington would want to do that either cause they don't.

So You PutinTrumpRowers in USA need to give up the ghost about the racist wet dream that USA & Russia would team up against China. We don't need you guyz in this or in anything else, ie, you are disposable, same as a diaper is.

As for Your Guy Putin and gay Russians he's been banging that drum for a decade so perhaps you should check the date on your newspaper. It's probably an identical story from 2012 reprinted. Your being an avid consumer of Putin's every word you shouldn't mind.

And the beat goes on.....

 

[Tangmo]

Fyi the s400 is noisy because it is powerful, systems with that powerful a radar can not ever avoid being noisy, hence why they keep them in passive mode until a threat is identified, usually using sensors and a single radar, this is so if an enemy targets the radar they are not targetting the only radar, just the only active one, when a threat comes up the whole system is designed to come alive.

Again any system with a radar powerful enough to track well over 400km and target well above the capabilites of the american patriot is going to be noisy, it is impossible not to have a crapton of radar emmission with a powerful radar, and radar works boh ways fyi.

I wrote one sentence about the Growler and here it is again: "NATO calls the Russian S series air defense system, such as the S-400, the Growler due to the racket it makes when the Russians turn it on."

Yet you got lit up by it like the inside of the Kremlin with an unnecessary "fyi" that rattled off what everybody knows already, ie, a powerful weapons system makes noise, or, as I put it, a "racket." Talk about being overly sensitive if not downright tender! Indeed, navies that rely greatly on submarines are always looking for the quieter sub that runs silent and runs deep. USN is for instance among the navies that have rubber on the outer hull of subs to contribute to absorbing noise from inside the sucker.

I keep up with extant weapons systems on an ad hoc basis given that in 1970 I was honorably separated from the required four consecutive years of active duty service -- in Army Infantry at Ft. Myer VA. By ad hoc I mean when a new to me weapons system hits the news I try to find time to use search engines to find out something about it, such as the Russian S series of air defense. And of course not every weapons system hits the news in a big kind of way does it. I'll be 77 next month so after putting in a couple of civilian careers since 1970 weapons systems have not been a responsibility for me to know or master. Nor do I have time to research each and every weapons system that's new to me among the many things I try to fit into my spare time.

I was pursuing a happy civilian life during Afghanistan, Iraq twice, Grenada, Panama et al along with Carter's miserable desert disaster in Iran that was about the U.S. hostages in Tehran who were freed eventually. And so on. Indeed, with this Australia nuclear powered sub deal I'm doing a lot of catchup on these particular kind of fish.

So it's silly and foolish not to mention disingenuine -- and probably dishonest -- for some people you and I know to say or imply I'm a phony because I'm not up to active duty speed on weapons systems -- or other current or ongoing military technologies. Rather, I have consciously and conscientiously tried to keep up with my uni ROTC area of concentration, ie, national security and strategic studies, some of which I also got to apply at certain times in certain positions during my post Army civilian professions. Since going into semi-retirement several years ago and being at DP I have brushed up considerably and comprehensively on my natural interest and it's been reenergizing to continue to do so.

 

[Fledermaus]

I wrote one sentence about the Growler and here it is again: "NATO calls the Russian S series air defense system, such as the S-400, the Growler due to the racket it makes when the Russians turn it on."

Yet you got lit up by it like the inside of the Kremlin with an unnecessary "fyi" that rattled off what everybody knows already, ie, a powerful weapons system makes noise, or, as I put it, a "racket." Talk about being overly sensitive if not downright tender! Indeed, navies that rely greatly on submarines are always looking for the quieter sub that runs silent and runs deep. USN is for instance among the navies that have rubber on the outer hull of subs to contribute to absorbing noise from inside the sucker.

I keep up with extant weapons systems on an ad hoc basis given that in 1970 I was honorably separated from the required four consecutive years of active duty service -- in Army Infantry at Ft. Myer VA. By ad hoc I mean when a new to me weapons system hits the news I try to find time to use search engines to find out something about it, such as the Russian S series of air defense. And of course not every weapons system hits the news in a big kind of way does it. I'll be 77 next month so after putting in a couple of civilian careers since 1970 weapons systems have not been a responsibility for me to know or master. Nor do I have time to research each and every weapons system that's new to me among the many things I try to fit into my spare time.

I was pursuing a happy civilian life during Afghanistan, Iraq twice, Grenada, Panama et al along with Carter's miserable desert disaster in Iran that was about the U.S. hostages in Tehran who were freed eventually. And so on. Indeed, with this Australia nuclear powered sub deal I'm doing a lot of catchup on these particular kind of fish.

So it's silly and foolish not to mention disingenuine -- and probably dishonest -- for some people you and I know to say or imply I'm a phony because I'm not up to active duty speed on weapons systems -- or other current or ongoing military technologies. Rather, I have consciously and conscientiously tried to keep up with my uni ROTC area of concentration, ie, national security and strategic studies, some of which I also got to apply at certain times in certain positions during my post Army civilian professions. Since going into semi-retirement several years ago and being at DP I have brushed up considerably and comprehensively on my natural interest and it's been reenergizing to continue to do so.

You spoke out your ass and got caught.

Again.

Your fantasies about the military are laughable.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Again any system with a radar powerful enough to track well over 400km and target well above the capabilites of the american patriot is going to be noisy, it is impossible not to have a crapton of radar emmission with a powerful radar, and radar works boh ways fyi.

All RADAR is "noisy" when it comes to EM radiation. After all, that is how they work in the first place.

They emit a lot of EM radiation, and read the reflections of it to locate and track a target. "Silent RADAR" just does not exist. The closest would be a tight beam, but that is only good for specific target tracking and targeting, not searching.

And indeed, most Air Defense units alternate when they are active, and when they are "switched off", both for defensive purposes, and to give the crews time for maintenance, like fueling the equipment. Typically in a 4 battery unit, only 1 will be active. The other 3 in various forms of maintenance or crew rest.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You spoke out your ass and got caught.

Again.

Your fantasies about the military are laughable.

Funny how he is always getting caught, and then flips and says we do not know what we are talking about.

Interestingly, that in my 10 years as a grunt, I knew little to nothing about Air Defense. I knew what the STINGER and PATRIOT was, and even went to NCO school with a guy that was in a HAWK battery. But other than the absolute basics of what the systems were, I knew nothing about them.

However, as should be obvious by my handle in here, that was changed later when I actually spent 5 years as a crewman in a PATRIOT battalion. Trained in air defense systems as well as various forms of aircraft and offensive missiles, and what the capabilities were of the equipment of the other side.

 

[Tangmo]

We may have a strategic interest at stake here to supply the Philippines's with state-of-the-art weaponry. For Washington, having the ability to rotate troops through the VFA is important not only for the defence of the Philippines, but also strategically when it comes to countering China in the region.

A new, stricter "Maritime Traffic Safety Law" to impact the offshore wind sector

China’s “maritime traffic safety law”, which serves as the legal basis for China's maritime traffic safety management, has been recently updated.

azure-international.com

Philippines vows to ignore China maritime law, seeks US help

A 2016 ruling at The Hague said China’s claim over most of the South China Sea has no legal basis, but Beijing has ignored the decision and has continued to expand its presence in the area, building artificial islands complete with runways and docks, igniting more tensions with neighbouring countries.





Manila has repeatedly protested what it calls the “illegal” and “threatening” presence of hundreds of Chinese “maritime militia” vessels inside its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as defined by a 2016 ruling at The Hague.

The cavalry is coming to the South China Sea....

US To Deploy New, Powerful Missiles On ‘Chinese-Claimed Islands’; Aims To Further Squeeze PLA Navy In Its Own Backyard

September 20, 2021​

Marine Corps’ ground-based ASM being fired from an unmanned joint light tactical vehicle. (US Navy)

US To Deploy New, Powerful Missiles On 'Chinese-Claimed Islands'; Aims To Further Squeeze PLA Navy In Its Own Backyard

The US Marine Corps (USMC) are rapidly moving to induct a new naval strike missile as part of the Ground-Based Anti-Ship Missile (GBASM) program, which can be used against Chinese warships. Tata-Lockheed Martin Joint Venture Achieves New Milestone In ‘Make In India’ Defense Production This...

eurasiantimes.com

The U.S. will place its new Naval-Marine Corps anti-ship missiles on Scarborough Shoal in the Philippines EEZ off Luzon Island and on other islands of the SCS that belong to friendly countries such as Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia.

The ground based NMESIS missile has tested successfully as recently as August 15th to maneuver in flight past and around friendly assets to hit its targets. Its close in unmanned ground launcher complicates China's efforts to find it and it causes China to defend against an additional factor of U.S. offensive forces in the region. China's defenses for instance focus on its ships and planes holding off U.S. ships and planes, not defending against hard to find land based missile launchers and its missiles that can change course in flight to weave and evade.

Indeed, the U.S. placing new maneuver missiles in the SCS goes right up Beijing's, er, nose, because they're so close in to PLA Naval and Air assets and the China mainland. It is also designed to make the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing think twice about sending out their Navy to keep the USN at a distance. The new NMESIS missile is expected to be inducted in 2023 and assigned to a Marine Littoral Regiment.

Good news for the good guys.

 

[Tangmo]

Given the steady stream of effluent Russia keeps pumping into the thread it's both necessary and desirable to stick up for the Anglosphere of USA, UK, Canada, Australia/NZ. In this case the focus is on UK grandly advanced military technology that the UK military publication Defense Review reported this year can take out the Russian S-400 air defense system.

To wit:


January 8, 2021

UK believes that with this missile F-35B can defeat Russian S-400​

The British military said the F-35 can completely defeat an advanced air defense system like the S-400."The F-35 can easily take down the S-400 system, as well as high-speed cruise missiles that fly at low altitudes because the aircraft is equipped with the world’s most powerful radar,“ the source said. The Spear-EW is a missile that is believed to be able to deal with the S-400 or any Russian air defense system from a sudden distance because it is capable of deceiving enemy air defenses.

The Spear-EW is said to be particularly effective against a Russian-made self-propelled anti-aircraft missile complex. “By connecting Spear in full network mode, cruise missiles can act like a swarm of bees, disrupting critical parts of the enemy air defense network.” For example,"Spear can deceive or block an enemy’s threat source, while some other missiles will seek and destroy not only the source but also all nearby missile defense components," the source said. In theory, if the Spear works as stated, when combined with the F-35, this pair of weapons is really a nightmare for any target even if it is the S-400.

UK believes that with this missile F-35B can defeat Russian S-400 - Defence View

With the Spear 3 cruise missile, the British F-35 stealth fighter can attack and disable many different targets. On January 6, the British Ministry of Defense has signed a contract worth $ 550 million to buy Spear 3 cruise missiles for 5th generation fighter aircraft F-35B. It is not clear how...

defenceview.in

So it remains true that for the irrepressible PutinTrumpRowers de Nile isn't only a river in Egypt.

 

[Fledermaus]

Given the steady stream of effluent Russia keeps pumping into the thread it's both necessary and desirable to stick up for the Anglosphere of USA, UK, Canada, Australia/NZ. In this case the focus is on UK grandly advanced military technology that the UK military publication Defense Review reported this year can take out the Russian S-400 air defense system.

To wit:


January 8, 2021

UK believes that with this missile F-35B can defeat Russian S-400​

The British military said the F-35 can completely defeat an advanced air defense system like the S-400."The F-35 can easily take down the S-400 system, as well as high-speed cruise missiles that fly at low altitudes because the aircraft is equipped with the world’s most powerful radar,“ the source said. The Spear-EW is a missile that is believed to be able to deal with the S-400 or any Russian air defense system from a sudden distance because it is capable of deceiving enemy air defenses.

The Spear-EW is said to be particularly effective against a Russian-made self-propelled anti-aircraft missile complex. “By connecting Spear in full network mode, cruise missiles can act like a swarm of bees, disrupting critical parts of the enemy air defense network.” For example,"Spear can deceive or block an enemy’s threat source, while some other missiles will seek and destroy not only the source but also all nearby missile defense components," the source said. In theory, if the Spear works as stated, when combined with the F-35, this pair of weapons is really a nightmare for any target even if it is the S-400.

UK believes that with this missile F-35B can defeat Russian S-400 - Defence View

With the Spear 3 cruise missile, the British F-35 stealth fighter can attack and disable many different targets. On January 6, the British Ministry of Defense has signed a contract worth $ 550 million to buy Spear 3 cruise missiles for 5th generation fighter aircraft F-35B. It is not clear how...

defenceview.in

So it remains true that for the irrepressible PutinTrumpRowers de Nile isn't only a river in Egypt.

Tangmo, opposing the imaginary "Putin Trump Rowers".

 

[ouch]

The cavalry is coming to the South China Sea....

US To Deploy New, Powerful Missiles On ‘Chinese-Claimed Islands’; Aims To Further Squeeze PLA Navy In Its Own Backyard​

​

September 20, 2021​

Marine Corps’ ground-based ASM being fired from an unmanned joint light tactical vehicle. (US Navy)

US To Deploy New, Powerful Missiles On 'Chinese-Claimed Islands'; Aims To Further Squeeze PLA Navy In Its Own Backyard

The US Marine Corps (USMC) are rapidly moving to induct a new naval strike missile as part of the Ground-Based Anti-Ship Missile (GBASM) program, which can be used against Chinese warships. Tata-Lockheed Martin Joint Venture Achieves New Milestone In ‘Make In India’ Defense Production This...

eurasiantimes.com

The U.S. will place its new Naval-Marine Corps anti-ship missiles on Scarborough Shoal in the Philippines EEZ off Luzon Island and on other islands of the SCS that belong to friendly countries such as Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia.

The ground based NMESIS missile has tested successfully as recently as August 15th to maneuver in flight past and around friendly assets to hit its targets. Its close in unmanned ground launcher complicates China's efforts to find it and it causes China to defend against an additional factor of U.S. offensive forces in the region. China's defenses for instance focus on its ships and planes holding off U.S. ships and planes, not defending against hard to find land based missile launchers and its missiles that can change course in flight to weave and evade.

Indeed, the U.S. placing new maneuver missiles in the SCS goes right up Beijing's, er, nose, because they're so close in to PLA Naval and Air assets and the China mainland. It is also designed to make the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing think twice about sending out their Navy to keep the USN at a distance. The new NMESIS missile is expected to be inducted in 2023 and assigned to a Marine Littoral Regiment.

Good news for the good guys.

Good guys indeed! Also, should go along with pleasing Philippine's President Rodrigo Duterte, not that we care what he thinks.

Now, with various publications about this particular ASM, it's my understanding that this is a program titled Force Design 2030. It's also my understanding that these missiles have and are still in experimental operations during which possibly by 2023, they'll be acceptable for effect. Unless I have missed it in one of the publications, I wonder what the missile's range might be. It also appears that this Force mission may not be in its entirety until 2030. Clarification requested. Beijing will also know of this preparedness that will put a serious flap in their S and E China Sea overreach. I suppose if I were Xi Jinping, our induction timeline of 2023 might hurry up something bit of an aggressive military move in the S and E China Sea / Indo-Pacific. Once our ASM is fully in place, many pins and needles will more than likely be removed from that pin cushion.

 

[fortune]

Tangmobabble... Tangmobabble everywhere......

Surely there must be a deference between Tamgmobabble and bloviation

 

[Tangmo]

Good guys indeed! Also, should go along with pleasing Philippine's President Rodrigo Duterte, not that we care what he thinks.

Now, with various publications about this particular ASM, it's my understanding that this is a program titled Force Design 2030. It's also my understanding that these missiles have and are still in experimental operations during which possibly by 2023, they'll be acceptable for effect. Unless I have missed it in one of the publications, I wonder what the missile's range might be. It also appears that this Force mission may not be in its entirety until 2030. Clarification requested. Beijing will also know of this preparedness that will put a serious flap in their S and E China Sea overreach. I suppose if I were Xi Jinping, our induction timeline of 2023 might hurry up something bit of an aggressive military move in the S and E China Sea / Indo-Pacific. Once our ASM is fully in place, many pins and needles will more than likely be removed from that pin cushion.

Yes, good questions by a VN vet based on solid research and knowledge.

Given I the one time grunt also haven't been around weapons systems I had to know or master since my 1970 Army active duty honorable ETS I too have been surfing sources and have come up with a bunch of good stuff on the NMESIS anti-ship missile that will be inducted and deployed on certain existing islands in the SCS, to include some also claimed falsely by Beijing which definitely ought to be interesting.

The new sucker will also be deployed along the Pacific First Strategic Island Chain beginning in 2023. The U.S. Pacific First Strategic Island Chain being of course Japan, Taiwan, Phils, Indonesia of the three U.S. Strategic Island chains out there to include Hawaii and the Aleutians of Alaska included in the Third Chain.

Navy-Marines Expeditionary Ship Interdiction System NMESIS is a Norweigan-U.S. platform of anti-ship missiles with a range of 100nm used for coastal defenses by Norway, Poland, Germany and acquired by Raytheon. NMESIS is an integral component of the new USMC Force Design 2030 that's on the rapid speed fast track, since 2019. Indeed, the Marines plan to buy the first production units of the NMESIS this year for operational test and evaluation in 2022 and release to the field by the end of 2023, Breaking Defense reported.

In preliminary tests this year NMESIS has twice maneuvered its way over and around friendly surface ship assets to hit a decommissioned USN target ship each time ("Is there anyone downrange? ha). Indeed, NMESIS has already been fully tested and deployed by the named NATO countries Naval-Marine forces at the Baltic.

USN says of the USMC and its NMESIS Naval Strike Missile:

NSM is a multi-mission cruise missile designed to destroy heavily defended maritime and land targets; it is the U.S. Navy’s over-the-horizon weapon system for littoral combat ships and frigates. Our Naval Strike Missile is a vital weapon for denying enemies the use of key maritime terrain. The Marines will use NMESIS to support the U.S. Navy from the shore against enemy ships. This further demonstrates our partnership for advancing the Marine Corps’ modernization priorities of enabling sea control and denial operations.

NMESIS is moving well toward deployment to certain islands of the SCS and the First Island Chain by the end of 2023. The operational hands on unit will be the 3rd Marine Littoral Regiment that is learning and training now with the missile in California. Xi Jinping meanwhile remains Sleepless in Shanghai.

 

[Fledermaus]

Surely there must be a deference between Tamgmobabble and bloviation

Tangmo is driven by the need to add a hundred irrelevant and/or incorrect words for every correct word.

 

[beerftw]

All RADAR is "noisy" when it comes to EM radiation. After all, that is how they work in the first place.

They emit a lot of EM radiation, and read the reflections of it to locate and track a target. "Silent RADAR" just does not exist. The closest would be a tight beam, but that is only good for specific target tracking and targeting, not searching.

And indeed, most Air Defense units alternate when they are active, and when they are "switched off", both for defensive purposes, and to give the crews time for maintenance, like fueling the equipment. Typically in a 4 battery unit, only 1 will be active. The other 3 in various forms of maintenance or crew rest.

You can make a radar more effecient at how it reads and sends signals, but the power out is always the power out. The high powered radars including l band early detection of the s300 and s400 systems bless them with long range, but also allow others to track the noise from long range.

It is always possible the patriot being a medium range system was designed to have a short range radar so it had a shorter range for the enemy to attack it. Because simply put the patriot could have gotten bigger radars and bigger power stations to run them for much better range, but the engineers chose not to and likely for a good reason.

 

[HangLow]

 

[Oozlefinch]

Of course it is exempt. The largest single expenditure is payroll and dependent care. What, you think we should go back to paying the military starvation wages, and those with families living off of food stamps?

 

[HangLow]

Of course it is exempt. The largest single expenditure is payroll and dependent care. What, you think we should go back to paying the military starvation wages, and those with families living off of food stamps?

 

[ouch]

Based on China's growing military reach into the S and E China Sea (shipping lanes), I wonder if Rep Ocasio-Cortez has taken into that account when, at this time, it's our military defense spending, working in part, to push back China's advance?

 

[Oozlefinch]

And a big chunk of that pie slice for "Maintenance" is for things like base housing, base schools, exchanges, and things of that nature.

Typical example, on Fort Bliss there are about 38,000 soldiers. And over 39,000 dependents. And maybe 100 barracks, and thousands of units of base housing (most of which are 10 years old or newer, many though are over 100 years old).

Like the 100 or so "Red Brick Houses" on the main post.

Actually built in the 1890's as "Officer Housing". Most of the base in that area actually dates to that era, when it was still a cavalry post.

And in the last 15 years they have spent over $100 billion in doubling the size of the main post, and then the capacity of the base hospital and entire new subdivisions for housing. Adding a new freeway extension, a new water and sewage plant, and a lot more. As the 1st Armored Division was returning from Germany, and had nowhere to go. On that chart, it was probably split between Maintenance, and Procurement.

And I know there is a slice in there that says "Construction and housing", but I don't buy it. We are supposed to believe that across the entire DoD, they only spent $7 billion on both military housing, and construction? On all of the roughly 500 bases just in the US alone (let alone overseas)? Including all utilities? Just last year the Army asked for $10 billion just to refurbish some of it's most run-down barracks.

Army Wants to Spend Nearly $10 Billion to Revamp its Barracks

The service anticipates that barracks upgrades will cost $9.6 billion through fiscal 2030.

www.military.com

That is a billion a year, just for single soldier barracks, in a singe branch. So that has to be coming out of some other slice of the pie other than "Military Construction". Most likely, "Maintenance".