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Should the US increase military commitments with the Philippines against China’s growing dominance in the South China Sea?

Tangmo

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Belt and road fall out has been much more than I ever thought would happen this fast. The world knows what is going on now. The Chinese are failing at diplomacy .
Xi Jinping is Sleepless in Shanghai during these times.

The BRI Neverland Belt & Roadblock is going backwards.

The every 5th year Party Congress is next year and Xi hasn't traveled outside of China for the past two years for fear of being deposed. He's hoping to hang on and get through the Congress which is increasingly dubious for him.

Xi's "Three Pledges" on taking power in 2012 (full power in 2013) are a bust:

Eliminating poverty by 2020 sees 80m more unemployed since he took office, GDP down to 2% to 4% while total debt has finally exceeded 300% of GDP. Xi has failed to move the needle on relatively very low household spending as a percentage of GDP, thus failing to create domestic production for domestic consumption.

Dominating the world in high tech and in IT especially (by 2025) is rejected across the globe as Huawei and other state connected corporations are being shut out due to distrust and valid suspicions of massive and widespread strategic espionage.

The Belt & Road is going backwards as just another classically vainglorious and grandiose Chinese project of self importance and faux historical conceit. It is collapsing of its own overbearing overweight.


Plus Xi's military buildup is directly contrary to Deng Xiao Ping's maxim of stealth and makes neighbors shudder that the only thing more threatening than a rising China is a falling China.
 

ouch

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The word that Newsweek used about China's current state of mind is "bristles" - making a quick note that China has stuck a finger in Germany's eye. It's almost as if China is pushing more buttons to possibly cause something to happen between The West and East. This is more about China gaining control over Taiwan than anything else in its military reach on the horizon - correct?



BBiusYT.img

It also notes China's increased military buildup, and that "the display of force and increasing tensions in regional hotspots such as in the South and East China Sea, and in the Taiwan Strait, may have a direct impact on European security and prosperity."

Germany, which has close economic ties to China, got a wake-up call last week when China rejected its request for a port call for the frigate Bavaria, which is currently conducting maneuvers in the Indo-Pacific.

"China is telling them this inclusive approach is not going to work, so in a way it's a rude awakening for Berlin," Mohan said. "You have to take a position, you can't have your cake and eat it too, and if you have an Indo-Pacific strategy...you can't make it neutral."
 

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That ain't gonna happen. In fact, after the Chinese basically ripped off the Su-33 from them, the Russians have stopped a lot of deals with them. They are still selling China some things, but a lot of the technology transfers have largely ceased. China has gotten a bad reputation in Russia for buying a few things, then just outright stealing the designs and making their own copies without paying royalties. And Russia is sick of it.

Russia has bugger all left to sell the Chinese. The Su-35 and S-400 were sold for reasons of financial desperation and political favors, not because they would provide a meaningful boost to the Chinese military.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Building an island base will not do much of anything against china. To counter china you simply need to get an alliance on board, japan hates china, south korea hates china, taiwan hates china, india hates china, many smaller asian nations hate china.

If we could get these countries to work in a full alliance to counter china, it will not have much power to expand, if we can get russia on more friendly terms and get it to ally more west than east china will lose it's biggest ally which it needs desperately for tech as china has not been good at designing anything, everything they have is copies of soviet/russian tech or copies of american tech. Hell even their stealth fighter looks like something they built by watching youtube videos of the f-35.

Either way china can not fight the rest of asia and america, and if we can push russia away from china(russia pivoted to china due to deterioirating diplomacy with the west) then china will be a sitting duck militarily.
Well you fools on the left have foreclosed any possibility of getting Russia on board with American foreign policy.

Putin just passed a law forbidding homosexuals from brainwashing kids and the left has been so Russo-phobic ever since. Including inventing conspiracies out of whole cloth.
 

Tangmo

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The word that Newsweek used about China's current state of mind is "bristles" - making a quick note that China has stuck a finger in Germany's eye. It's almost as if China is pushing more buttons to possibly cause something to happen between The West and East. This is more about China gaining control over Taiwan than anything else in its military reach on the horizon - correct?



BBiusYT.img

It also notes China's increased military buildup, and that "the display of force and increasing tensions in regional hotspots such as in the South and East China Sea, and in the Taiwan Strait, may have a direct impact on European security and prosperity."

Germany, which has close economic ties to China, got a wake-up call last week when China rejected its request for a port call for the frigate Bavaria, which is currently conducting maneuvers in the Indo-Pacific.

"China is telling them this inclusive approach is not going to work, so in a way it's a rude awakening for Berlin," Mohan said. "You have to take a position, you can't have your cake and eat it too, and if you have an Indo-Pacific strategy...you can't make it neutral."
Yes and with Merkel's exit from 16 years of German and EU governance underway Berlin will be hard pressed to keep running up the flag on both sides of every fence while stressing continuing dialogue and open channels on all issues and differences. Xi Jinping as one among many is just not that kind of guy -- and he never was one. It's China's way or the highway. Which is why Australia has become Beijing's new Hong Kong migraine that, unlike the Chicoms crushing of freedoms in HKG, the DictatorTyrants in Beijing cannot do anything to stop.

Germany is stuck in the middle now trying to figure its way clear of the crossfire it's getting. This German Navy frigate now spurned by Beijing was sent by the German Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (AKK for short) who in peacetime is commander in chief of the German armed forces. The German chancellor becomes CinC only if parliament formally declares war against an actual invader, so Merkel is laying low on this in her final months while AKK fully agrees with NATO, Japan, Australia and India to join the allies in the Indo-Pacific region.

The Boyz in Beijing are totally put out by both Merkel and AKK for being unable -- in the case of AKK unwilling -- to stop the EU Parliament from ditching Germany's pet investment agreement with Beijing that had been 7 years in the making. It was on a rainy day last summer that the EU Parliament pushed ratification off the table after Beijing sanctioned a number of parliament leaders who had successfully moved a resolution condemning Beijing's genocide in the Muslim region of XinJiang and in Buddhist Tibet. So the big EU investment deal with China and led by Merkel ist kaput.

Biden got a slice of the cake too because Merkel had ignored the request of the then Potus Elect to delay action on the new and big bucks Germany-China led investment agreement until after Biden took office, a request Merkel ignored at her own peril given the EU Parliament shelving of the deal turned out to be yet another Merkel blind spot. So it's definitely time for Germany to rethink these things although I don't think Berlin is thinking either realistically or sensibly just yet about rethinking its long standing policy of pressing the meaningless dialogue button every time and on every thing.
 

ouch

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Yes and with Merkel's exit from 16 years of German and EU governance underway Berlin will be hard pressed to keep running up the flag on both sides of every fence while stressing continuing dialogue and open channels on all issues and differences. Xi Jinping as one among many is just not that kind of guy -- and he never was one. It's China's way or the highway. Which is why Australia has become Beijing's new Hong Kong migraine that, unlike the Chicoms crushing of freedoms in HKG, the DictatorTyrants in Beijing cannot do anything to stop.

Germany is stuck in the middle now trying to figure its way clear of the crossfire it's getting. This German Navy frigate now spurned by Beijing was sent by the German Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (AKK for short) who in peacetime is commander in chief of the German armed forces. The German chancellor becomes CinC only if parliament formally declares war against an actual invader, so Merkel is laying low on this in her final months while AKK fully agrees with NATO, Japan, Australia and India to join the allies in the Indo-Pacific region.

The Boyz in Beijing are totally put out by both Merkel and AKK for being unable -- in the case of AKK unwilling -- to stop the EU Parliament from ditching Germany's pet investment agreement with Beijing that had been 7 years in the making. It was on a rainy day last summer that the EU Parliament pushed ratification off the table after Beijing sanctioned a number of parliament leaders who had successfully moved a resolution condemning Beijing's genocide in the Muslim region of XinJiang and in Buddhist Tibet. So the big EU investment deal with China and led by Merkel ist kaput.

Biden got a slice of the cake too because Merkel had ignored the request of the then Potus Elect to delay action on the new and big bucks Germany-China led investment agreement until after Biden took office, a request Merkel ignored at her own peril given the EU Parliament shelving of the deal turned out to be yet another Merkel blind spot. So it's definitely time for Germany to rethink these things although I don't think Berlin is thinking either realistically or sensibly just yet about rethinking its long standing policy of pressing the meaningless dialogue button every time and on every thing.
Appreciate your insight with the 'current' China and Germany. I haven't kept up well with Merkel's possible replacement - do we know who that person is yet? Concerning her replacement, what's your inkling about this existing Beijing friction willed to her replacement? Do you expect any direct counter from Germany to Beijing's rejection of Germany's frigate or might they let this all slide in hopes this dust will settle? Do you expect that Germany will rely on the US's new Admin to smooth it all over with Beijing?
 

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The Su-35 and S-400 were sold for reasons of financial desperation and political favors, not because they would provide a meaningful boost to the Chinese military.

Oh, it is much more than that.

When Russia and China were in talks, Russia was worried they would steal the design, and insisted that all patent and royalty agreements be followed. They also refused to sell them the Naval Version of the Su-35, instead saying that they would sell them the land based version of the Su-35, and the Naval version of their older aircraft under license, the Su-27M. However, the ink was barely dry on that agreement and the first aircraft delivered when China announced their own aircraft. Cobbled together from the Su-27M, and a prototype Su-35 they had acquired form the Ukraine.

And of course, then denied they had taken anything, it was all made themselves, and no royalties would be paid. Now China did that for decades, and the Soviets largely ignored it. But Russia today is not the Soviet Union, and they have largely stopped any meaningful technology transfers since then. Russia had hoped that as the "first International purchaser" of the Flanker-E, it would give their own flagging arms industry a boost. Instead, it only got them egg on the face, as they have been trying to find foreign purchasers of both the J-11 and J-15, but with little luck. They keep showing them off to the world, but nobody seems interested in buying them, and possibly pissing off Russia.

And the S-400? That is really not a big deal at all, just an upgrade on the Soviet era S-300. It literally is just an upgrade on that Brezhnev era weapon. In reality, the newer US PATRIOT PAC-3 is even more different than the original PATRIOT fielded under Reagan than the S-400 is from the S-300. And China has already started to copy that equipment, and is no longer interested in buying any more from Russia.
 

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Alas and as we've been shown here so clearly Adolph was simply misunderstood and done wrong by the bumbling English and French who went to war against him when Germany invaded Poland. Those them thar damn democracies upset everything the benevolent dictator Hitler had planned for the good of humankind.

Indeed and as has been demonstrated conclusively by the undisputable in house authority -- who insists adamantly he's not a Hitler apologist -- had Hitler been able to execute his lebensraum to the east he'd have eliminated all the Russian commies and established a Germany that would have extended from the Rhine through Eurasia and beyond the Urals out to fascist Japan. Which leaves us to imagine a Hitler's Barbarian Germany that had all the resources of Russia to build itself up and, ahem, further out and about. Joined with Japan besides.

Pax Germania from Brittany and Normandy, the Med and the ME out to Vladivostok. And all of the resources therein. What, me worry? :devilish:

So I do worry. I worry about the revisionism of the 21st century uniquely American fascists and their purposes in the USA that would extend the Hitler nightmare to the American homeland -- and beyond. And their not so subtle revivalism that's quite thought through.

1) Had Japan attacked Russian instead of America, Stalin would not have been in a position to bring General Zhukov and the Russian troops from the Far East - trained and equipped to fight during the winter months which halted the German advance with crucial victories at Moscow and Stalingrad!

2) General Zhukov, widely regarded as Russia best military strategist of WW2, was fortunate to have been posted in the Far East during Stalin's purge of the military - generals who lost were routinely executed for incompetent, generals who won were viewed with suspicion as potential rivals and executed

3) Apparently America flew much of the military supplies being sent to keep Russia in the war from Alaska to its eastern Siberian airports - had Russia reciprocated by allowing them to be deployed as Americans to bomb Japan, that would have eliminated the need for the whole "island-hopping" campaign in the Pacific!

4) Just as the Allies were under the added pressure to defeat Japan, given that once Germany was defeated, the Russians would also pressure to have that nation partitioned into zones of influence, they were also "on-the-clock" when it came to the D-Day landing - the Axis powers weren't their only concern

5) By 1944, Germany military was a "spent force" in full-retreat on its eastern front, but instead of heading straight for Berlin, Stalin sent his armies to occupy a number of European nations that would form the Soviet Bloc!

6) Had the Americans and British postponed their liberation of Western Europe, instead of assuming that Russians would halt after taking Berlin, what would have prevented the Soviet military " juggernaut" from going all the way to the Atlantic - Stalin would have then defied his former Allies to force him to relinquish control!
 

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Well you fools on the left have foreclosed any possibility of getting Russia on board with American foreign policy.

Putin just passed a law forbidding homosexuals from brainwashing kids and the left has been so Russo-phobic ever since. Including inventing conspiracies out of whole cloth.
Putins laws were gonna be putins laws, putin is gonna putin duh!

But russia could still be swayed on board, russia does not need to be a direct ally but rather just not an ally of china as that is china's greatest strength is russia, one has the military doctrine tech and expertise and the other has a crapton of money and manufacturing capability.

Simply seperate the two, russia could probably be swayed by some deals there, they are not fans of china themselves given china had already backstabbed them once under the soviet union, the allaince is simply one out of convenience more than a unified moral ground.
 

Tangmo

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Appreciate your insight with the 'current' China and Germany. I haven't kept up well with Merkel's possible replacement - do we know who that person is yet? Concerning her replacement, what's your inkling about this existing Beijing friction willed to her replacement? Do you expect any direct counter from Germany to Beijing's rejection of Germany's frigate or might they let this all slide in hopes this dust will settle? Do you expect that Germany will rely on the US's new Admin to smooth it all over with Beijing?
The German federal election is Sunday while some 40% of voters are voting by postal ballot, today being the final day to request one. This 40% is twice the normal of mail in ballots given Covid and considering voters who have been certain of their vote for some period of time.

However, the two major parties which are Merkel's center-right CDU and the center-left SPD are very tight in the polling with SPD having the slight edge. The 3 to 4 point difference between the CDU/CSU Union and the SPD has just this past week become insignificant. Each major party lost voters in the 2017 election and while the SPD is holding its 2017 percentage the CDU Union is way behind its poor showing of four years ago.

Still whichever major party finishes with the most seats in the parliament will try to form a new coalition government which almost surely will take months to accomplish and only if it's possible to form a coalition among the newly splintered and fragmented politics of Germany. Indeed every German knows that yet another CDU-SPD coalition would provoke Germans to storm the Bundestag while almost any other considered coalition has too many differences to be viable. The president of Germany may need to intervene by either calling a new election or by simply appointing a new chancellor absent a coalition thereby leaving the appointee vulnerable to failure.

Regardless the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing turning away the German Navy frigate from docking in China is like a crotchety homeowner slamming the door on a girl scout selling cookies. That is, nothing will come of it. Germany anyway having the 4th largest economy of the world should be sending a flotilla to the Indo-Pacific instead of a frigate. The clear minded German Defense minister I'd mentioned, AKK, is running this show for Germany and during this period of German domestic uncertainty whatever she does or doesn't do concerning China will be unpleasant for the Boyz in Beijing.
 

Felis Leo

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So China is comparable to Hitler’s Germany? China is going to invade Central Asia and wipe out all Turkic peoples?

Yes. The People's Republic of China is comparable to Nazi Germany. It is a single-party, totalitarian, nationalist, mono-cultural state in which no minority beyond Han Chinese is tolerated as equals. By point of comparison, in terms of domestic policy, economic policy, and foreign policy, no country on Earth comes closer to Hitler's Germany pre-War than Xi Xinping's China.

And it bears pointing out that as a point of comparison, Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did not start exterminating Jews and Slaves en masse immediately after taking power.
 

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Oh, it is much more than that.

When Russia and China were in talks, Russia was worried they would steal the design, and insisted that all patent and royalty agreements be followed. They also refused to sell them the Naval Version of the Su-35, instead saying that they would sell them the land based version of the Su-35, and the Naval version of their older aircraft under license, the Su-27M. However, the ink was barely dry on that agreement and the first aircraft delivered when China announced their own aircraft. Cobbled together from the Su-27M, and a prototype Su-35 they had acquired form the Ukraine.

And of course, then denied they had taken anything, it was all made themselves, and no royalties would be paid. Now China did that for decades, and the Soviets largely ignored it. But Russia today is not the Soviet Union, and they have largely stopped any meaningful technology transfers since then. Russia had hoped that as the "first International purchaser" of the Flanker-E, it would give their own flagging arms industry a boost. Instead, it only got them egg on the face, as they have been trying to find foreign purchasers of both the J-11 and J-15, but with little luck. They keep showing them off to the world, but nobody seems interested in buying them, and possibly pissing off Russia.

And the S-400? That is really not a big deal at all, just an upgrade on the Soviet era S-300. It literally is just an upgrade on that Brezhnev era weapon. In reality, the newer US PATRIOT PAC-3 is even more different than the original PATRIOT fielded under Reagan than the S-400 is from the S-300. And China has already started to copy that equipment, and is no longer interested in buying any more from Russia.

You have already addressed the S400, so I will analyze the Su-35 purchase.

A mere 25 were bought and it was widely excepted to be as a political favour to Putin which would help shore up UAC's finances. Russia was initially reluctant to sell their best stuff to China for obvious reasons, but a subsequently adopted a pragmatic "sell it before they don't want it" approach.

The J-16 is superior to the Su-35 (AESA radar, Datalinks, Composite Construction, Weaponry) for the most part other than it's engines, which were the only things the Chinese were interested in.

The Chinese use the Su-35 for aggressor training.
 

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1) Had Japan attacked Russian instead of America, Stalin would not have been in a position to bring General Zhukov and the Russian troops from the Far East - trained and equipped to fight during the winter months which halted the German advance with crucial victories at Moscow and Stalingrad!

2) General Zhukov, widely regarded as Russia best military strategist of WW2, was fortunate to have been posted in the Far East during Stalin's purge of the military - generals who lost were routinely executed for incompetent, generals who won were viewed with suspicion as potential rivals and executed

3) Apparently America flew much of the military supplies being sent to keep Russia in the war from Alaska to its eastern Siberian airports - had Russia reciprocated by allowing them to be deployed as Americans to bomb Japan, that would have eliminated the need for the whole "island-hopping" campaign in the Pacific!

4) Just as the Allies were under the added pressure to defeat Japan, given that once Germany was defeated, the Russians would also pressure to have that nation partitioned into zones of influence, they were also "on-the-clock" when it came to the D-Day landing - the Axis powers weren't their only concern

5) By 1944, Germany military was a "spent force" in full-retreat on its eastern front, but instead of heading straight for Berlin, Stalin sent his armies to occupy a number of European nations that would form the Soviet Bloc!

6) Had the Americans and British postponed their liberation of Western Europe, instead of assuming that Russians would halt after taking Berlin, what would have prevented the Soviet military " juggernaut" from going all the way to the Atlantic - Stalin would have then defied his former Allies to force him to relinquish control!
That's quite a menu of familiar dishes you have there each one being important or significant in various ways for a proliferation of reasons.

A lot of people read the huge number of books on WW II to include consume respectable tv documentaries and attend lectures and interactive presentations by experts and amateurs alike. So kindly get back to me thx when you have something new or someone has a new take on something based on legit research. Or once you might get focused.
 

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1) Had Japan attacked Russian instead of America, Stalin would not have been in a position to bring General Zhukov and the Russian troops from the Far East - trained and equipped to fight during the winter months which halted the German advance with crucial victories at Moscow and Stalingrad!

6) Had the Americans and British postponed their liberation of Western Europe, instead of assuming that Russians would halt after taking Berlin, what would have prevented the Soviet military " juggernaut" from going all the way to the Atlantic - Stalin would have then defied his former Allies to force him to relinquish control!

Boy, what a mess. And also almost completely wrong.

1. The Soviets had nothing that the Japanese needed. They needed food, oil, and rubber. And that was all found south, in the Dutch East Indies and Philippines. So attacking the Soviets would have been stupid.

2. Meaningless.

3. They flew almost nothing to the Soviets. It almost all went via the Atlantic, because that is where the supplies were needed. Specifically trucks and rail locomotives. About all the cargo aircraft of the time could deliver was food (and we learned how little food an airlift could supply in 1948 with the Berlin Airlift), medical supplies, and passengers. Not enough "military equipment" to make much of a difference. But in routes with tons of good delivered, the Arctic Convoy was in the lead by far. Followed by the Persian Corridor, then at the end the Pacific Route. Primarily there in supplies that were used by their Far-East forces, so the Soviets would not have to supply them, and reserve their resources for fighting the Germans.

4. The partitions was largely decided at the Yalta Conference, which was before Germany surrendered, and was only considering Germany and not Japan at all. The Soviets were not a formal member of the meeting at Potsdam that decided on the Potsdam Declaration, as they were still Neutral with Japan. They had absolutely no chance of being involved in the occupation of that country.

5. Germany was not in "full retreat" on the Eastern Front. In 1944 alone they racked up over a million and a half dead, wounded, or missing Soviet soldiers and their allies. That is hardly "in full retreat", and in fact is proof of the bloody fighting going on. An enemy does not take those kinds of losses against an enemy in retreat. And the Soviets had to try to take out the German support in those countries. Especially the "Locally Raised SS" units that the Germans had raised in all of those nations that were fanatically anti-Soviet. In fact, in August 1944 the Germans started a new offensive on the Slovak-Polish border, A battle that lasted for over 2 months, and killed over 20,000 Soviets. Full retreat? Don't make me laugh.

6. This is confusing, conflicting, and utterly meaningless. Complete rubbish, I have no idea what you are even trying to say here.

Not bad, out of 6 points, 4 were completely wrong, and 2 were meaningless or nonsensical.

Side note now on the "Pacific Route". That was mostly the food, fuel, and supplies the Eastern Forces needed to survive in their garrisons. The only link between them and the main part of Moscow was the Trans-Siberian Railroad. And it was not used much during the war, as most of the resources that would normally be used to keep it operational and the supplies they would sent were being used to fight the Germans. So the US largely took over supplying them, so the Soviets did not have to worry about it.

And these were also limited, because of the conditions of the war. All supplies were only shipped on Soviet vessels from the US West Coast to Kamchatka. And because this was "Neutral Shipping", no war materials could be sent. Food, fuel, and logistical supplies only. No weapons or munitions (although some unarmed combat aircraft were sent that way then had weapons installed once they arrived by the Soviets).
 

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Yes. The People's Republic of China is comparable to Nazi Germany.

In other words, they were really comparable to the Nationalist Chinese that were in charge before the CCP took over, and the Fascists in Italy. Unless they started enslaving and slaughtering millions of people in death factories, there is nothing to compare them to Germany that is not more accurate in comparing them to other National Socialist nations.
 

ouch

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Regardless the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing turning away the German Navy frigate from docking in China is like a crotchety homeowner slamming the door on a girl scout selling cookies. That is, nothing will come of it. Germany anyway having the 4th largest economy of the world should be sending a flotilla to the Indo-Pacific instead of a frigate. The clear minded German Defense minister I'd mentioned, AKK, is running this show for Germany and during this period of German domestic uncertainty whatever she does or doesn't do concerning China will be unpleasant for the Boyz in Beijing.
Thanks for that deeper insight to Germany's relationship with China hanging somewhat in suspended limbo, with little expectations of any poking the eye of Beijing.

However, we're back to things like the AUKUS. China's anger grows with this budding military technology relationship expanding before Beijing's eyes. Beijing is now worried about its iron ore and coal supplies while some experts possibly see problems arise between China and Australian ships in the S China Sea with possibilities that China economically sanctions Australia over iron ore and coal. Yeah, self inflicted wounds on Beijing's behalf - smart. :rolleyes: All the while as China boils over increasing military ties between Australia and the US. Meanwhile the Philippines awaits for the US to further supplements them while chewing on their fingernails about China. With all of this taking place, we hardly notice Kim Jong un's nuclear threats creeping higher again. My mind now drifts a little in wonderment if China will become desperate for such an additional threat to side with them during our S and E China Sea showdown with the West?
 

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NATO calls the Russian S series air defense system, such as the S-400, the Growler due to the racket it makes when the Russians turn it on.

I thought I'd insert something from NATO given so much at the thread comes from Russia.

Given the Russians have Trump & His Rowers in the USA btw there's zero reason the Kremlin would want to go in with USA foreign or defense policy against CCP-PRC Boyz in Beijing.

Indeed, Putin is well positioned in the United States and throughout the USA to destroy it from within. Putin won't succeed but that's the primary rationale in Moscow for not needing or wanting to join with the USA against China in foreign and military policy, not that Washington would want to do that either cause they don't.

So PutinTrumpRowers in USA need to give up the ghost about their racist wet dream of USA & Russia vs China. We don't need you guyz in this or in anything else, ie, you are disposable, same as a diaper is.
 

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Yes. The People's Republic of China is comparable to Nazi Germany. It is a single-party, totalitarian, nationalist, mono-cultural state in which no minority beyond Han Chinese is tolerated as equals. By point of comparison, in terms of domestic policy, economic policy, and foreign policy, no country on Earth comes closer to Hitler's Germany pre-War than Xi Xinping's China.

And it bears pointing out that as a point of comparison, Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did not start exterminating Jews and Slaves en masse immediately after taking power.

True, they went with the concept that "Thar's money in them there Jews"

Jews had to buy their way out of the Third Reich. Once Germany started on Poland and lands east they started the slaughter in earnest.
 

Fledermaus

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NATO calls the Russian S series air defense system, such as the S-400, the Growler due to the racket it makes when the Russians turn it on.

Nope.

I thought I'd insert something from NATO given so much at the thread comes from Russia.

That would be a lie.

Given the Russians have Trump & His Rowers in the USA btw there's zero reason the Kremlin would want to go in with USA foreign or defense policy against CCP-PRC Boyz in Beijing.

Indeed, Putin is well positioned in the United States and throughout the USA to destroy it from within. Putin won't succeed but that's the primary rationale in Moscow for not needing or wanting to join with the USA against China in foreign and military policy, not that Washington would want to do that either cause they don't.

So PutinTrumpRowers in USA need to give up the ghost about their racist wet dream of USA & Russia vs China. We don't need you guyz in this or in anything else, ie, you are disposable, same as a diaper is.

Tangmobabble.
 

Oozlefinch

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Exactly. If he really knew what he was talking about, he would know the S-300 is called the "SA-10 Grumble".

The "SA-21 Growler" is the S-400. The S-200 was the "SA-5 Gammon". And each system in the "S series" had different names. From S-75 Dvina ("SA-2 Guideline") to all others.

And the source of the name is part of all NATO naming nomenclature. B words are used for bombers (Tu-95 "Bear", Tu-160 "Blackjack"), F for fighters (MiG-15 "Fagot", MiG-25 "Foxbat", fictional MiG-31 "Firefox"), H for Helicopters (Mi-24 "Hind", Mi-8 "Hip", Mi-28 "Havoc").

"G" is the letter used for ground to air missiles. Hence, every single one always starts with a G.

For somebody that claims to know so much having been an Infantry Officer, he sure blows it constantly when it comes to actually knowing things that almost everybody in the military actually knows. And what kind of "racket" is a missile supposed to make when it is "turned on"? The only sound a missile makes when it is turned on is a loud roar when it is launched. Otherwise, they just sit quietly in their canisters making no sound at all.

As typical, his post is almost entirely fictional, and made up entirely from his imagination. Heck, even an English writer knew more about NATO naming nomenclature, as he called his book "Firefox". And they specifically used words that would not be commonly used in speech, so they would be more easily identified.
 

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Exactly. If he really knew what he was talking about, he would know the S-300 is called the "SA-10 Grumble".

The "SA-21 Growler" is the S-400. The S-200 was the "SA-5 Gammon". And each system in the "S series" had different names. From S-75 Dvina ("SA-2 Guideline") to all others.

And the source of the name is part of all NATO naming nomenclature. B words are used for bombers (Tu-95 "Bear", Tu-160 "Blackjack"), F for fighters (MiG-15 "Fagot", MiG-25 "Foxbat", fictional MiG-31 "Firefox"), H for Helicopters (Mi-24 "Hind", Mi-8 "Hip", Mi-28 "Havoc").

"G" is the letter used for ground to air missiles. Hence, every single one always starts with a G.

For somebody that claims to know so much having been an Infantry Officer, he sure blows it constantly when it comes to actually knowing things that almost everybody in the military actually knows. And what kind of "racket" is a missile supposed to make when it is "turned on"? The only sound a missile makes when it is turned on is a loud roar when it is launched. Otherwise, they just sit quietly in their canisters making no sound at all.

As typical, his post is almost entirely fictional, and made up entirely from his imagination. Heck, even an English writer knew more about NATO naming nomenclature, as he called his book "Firefox". And they specifically used words that would not be commonly used in speech, so they would be more easily identified.

And the naming convention precedes NATO as we used it in the Pacific.

Betty bombers, Zeke fighters, Hamp for the square winged Zero.

Yeah, Tangmohistory often only slightly corresponds to real history.
 

Oozlefinch

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Betty bombers, Zeke fighters, Hamp for the square winged Zero.

Yes, but that naming was haphazard, and there was no kind of system in place.

Japanese bombers were named after girls, fighters after boys. And the actual US code for the Mitsubishi A6M was "Zeke". But likely also from the Zero, as it was the "Naval Type 0 fighter" in Japanese, with the number being from the last digit of the Imperial Calendar.
 

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Yes, but that naming was haphazard, and there was no kind of system in place.

Japanese bombers were named after girls, fighters after boys. And the actual US code for the Mitsubishi A6M was "Zeke". But likely also from the Zero, as it was the "Naval Type 0 fighter" in Japanese, with the number being from the last digit of the Imperial Calendar.

All true.
 

beerftw

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NATO calls the Russian S series air defense system, such as the S-400, the Growler due to the racket it makes when the Russians turn it on.

I thought I'd insert something from NATO given so much at the thread comes from Russia.

Given the Russians have Trump & His Rowers in the USA btw there's zero reason the Kremlin would want to go in with USA foreign or defense policy against CCP-PRC Boyz in Beijing.

Indeed, Putin is well positioned in the United States and throughout the USA to destroy it from within. Putin won't succeed but that's the primary rationale in Moscow for not needing or wanting to join with the USA against China in foreign and military policy, not that Washington would want to do that either cause they don't.

So PutinTrumpRowers in USA need to give up the ghost about their racist wet dream of USA & Russia vs China. We don't need you guyz in this or in anything else, ie, you are disposable, same as a diaper is.
What is a putin rower, does putin take a jon boat out to the lake and have his rowers row for him? I would figure a jon boat would be better with a outboard motor, but maybe some rowers are more green, or some crap like that!

Fyi the s400 is noisy because it is powerful, systems with that powerful a radar can not ever avoid being noisy, hence why they keep them in passive mode until a threat is identified, usually using sensors and a single radar, this is so if an enemy targets the radar they are not targetting the only radar, just the only active one, when a threat comes up the whole system is designed to come alive.

Again any system with a radar powerful enough to track well over 400km and target well above the capabilites of the american patriot is going to be noisy, it is impossible not to have a crapton of radar emmission with a powerful radar, and radar works boh ways fyi.
 

Tangmo

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As I'd said, I published something from NATO because the thread is full of stuff from Russia.

The PutinTrumpRowers

rowing-boat-team-teamwork-race-63941785.jpg




Neither did I publish everything from NATO. Cause that would be a lot, wouldn't it.

Just a little something from 'em, about the Russian S-400 Growler in particular.

Because as I'd said, so much at the thread comes from Russia. The Moscow Mafia. AKA: The Putin Kneejerkers. Cause Putin's their guy and Trump is their vehicle to get there.
 
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