Hamster Buddha
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2013
- Messages
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- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
The 9/11 hijackers were almost all Saudis. They trained in American flight schools. They didn't need the Taliban in Afghanistan to pull it off.
Yes, its a politically corrupt and ineffective state. The world is full of Islamists looking to take advantage of such weakness. Once again, what is the point of helping them if they can't defeat ISIS? Defeating ISIS won't make Iraq a model of democracy and good governance, it will just move one bunch of Islamic thugs out so another can take its place.
The last CIA assessment put the total number at about 31k. Even if it were 30k in Iraq, my point still stands. If an active force of 271,500 trained military personnel cannot defeat a bunch of untrained thugs numbering around 30,000, then what is the point of helping them? If the Iraqi military is that weak and ineffective, then even if we killed every member of ISIS, some other bunch of Islamists would just rise up and take their place.
Yep, and those swelling numbers in Syria are due in large part to the so-called moderate (though I've never believed they were, and have pointed it out all along) rebels joining the Islamic State ranks!
Today, Congress is determining if we should give funds to Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels. So that they can fight ISIS. The Problem is the Syrian Rebels are not able to be trusted. They have used Chems and all they care about is removing Assad. Even their top commanders are all for a government that would be acceptable With Sharia Law.
They will say and do anything to get backing and assistance.....they have also pledged against the US. At least 29 opposition groups. While it is understandable to have the need to take on ISIS. This is a mistake waiting to Happen. What say ye?
You are talking about what things have evolved to. Again, I'm not arguing we should support the rebels at this point, as that well is very much tainted. All I know is that in very beginning, when this civil war could of been averted, Assad chose to drop the hammer as he has always done because he's a Dictator who loves to abuse his power. It's only because of what that Rebels have become that I say we shouldn't support them. Still, that doesn't change the lesson from history, that if you support a dictator's government (either directly, or indirectly by not providing help when needed) it will come back to bite you in the ass like it did with the Shah.
Oh, and Bush also told us what a great friend Putin was.... how did that turn out?
First off, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the form of government they take in Syria. It's none of our business. As long as they are not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy, and playing nice diplomatically whether they have a sharia compliant form of government or not is none of our concern.
What part about them pledging against the US wasn't a concern, again?
Well.....what was Assad suppose to do finding out the MB and those who his father exiled.....but didn't kill. Were back stirring things up. I don't condone him for going after any innocents. But the MB used gangs of youths to run around and graffiti things up.
So Assad cracked down....and all knew he wouldn't care if the MB hid behind civilians, Women and Children. Using the Hamas format.
Yeah so far 10 all against arming the Rebels.....so far no BO Bots in supporting. Nor Neo Cons.
What part about them pledging against the US wasn't a concern, again?
I didn't make a comment about them pledging against the US. I strictly commented on their form of government they choose. If you'll read again, you'll also notice that it came with some very specific conditions such as not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy and playing nice diplomatically.
As for them pledging against the US, that would mean all bets are off and we don't arm or train. In fact, we go in with our own troops, do it for them and in compensation, dictate to them what government they will have and how their resources will be spent.
Most of the Syrian Rebels are either AQ or ISIS or has ties to AQ and ISIS. The moderate Islamist Rebels are very small if they really existed. Secular Islamist Rebels, even the name of the moderates makes me wonder. Perhaps it is a name chosen by them because that is exactly what we want to believe.
Isn't it ironic that the Obama administration is participating and organizing or trying to all these regime changes.
I didn't make a comment about them pledging against the US. I strictly commented on their form of government they choose. If you'll read again, you'll also notice that it came with some very specific conditions such as not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy and playing nice diplomatically.
As for them pledging against the US, that would mean all bets are off and we don't arm or train. In fact, we go in with our own troops, do it for them and in compensation, dictate to them what government they will have and how their resources will be spent.
Yeah but look what happened to the MB back then. I know we like to just think of MB as the crazy guys who took over Egypt for a short period of time, but back when they were a political party, there were banned from the country, made a capital punishment to be a part of the party. If that **** happened here, I'd probably be supporting them... at least up until the point the were going to cut my head off at least.
Nah, the MB(Sunni) has always been crazy(those Clerics who think they are more than what they really are).....that's why Gadhafi was about keeping them out of Libya politics. But then they finally found a way around him. Especially once they knew he had backing from those in Africa for a United states of Africa.
Yeah I knew you didn't.....but then you got to the part about not listening to us. Like they did when they used the Chems.
There I agree with you. It will take our troops in Iraq on the ground.
Although....today BO was using some bass in his voice and talking about make no Mistake the troops in Iraq on the ground will not Be used for Combat. Even after all have told him.....this was the Best Solution he asked for.
Today, Congress is determining if we should give funds to Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels. So that they can fight ISIS. The Problem is the Syrian Rebels are not able to be trusted. They have used Chems and all they care about is removing Assad. Even their top commanders are all for a government that would be acceptable With Sharia Law.
They will say and do anything to get backing and assistance.....they have also pledged against the US. At least 29 opposition groups. While it is understandable to have the need to take on ISIS. This is a mistake waiting to Happen. What say ye?
The last CIA assessment put the total number at about 31k. Even if it were 30k in Iraq, my point still stands. If an active force of 271,500 trained military personnel cannot defeat a bunch of untrained thugs numbering around 30,000, then what is the point of helping them? If the Iraqi military is that weak and ineffective, then even if we killed every member of ISIS, some other bunch of Islamists would just rise up and take their place.
Then why wasn't the Christians ever part of those beginning Demonstrations? Just why was the MB allowed to set up protests calling for Democratic Reform? In which many of them were exiled from Syria by Assad's Father. Which was after Pelosi and the Demos were running around at the End of Bush' term and calling Assad a Reformer. Also Assad gave Amnesty to those with no connection to the MB.
Also after the Sunni Rebels Suffered one of their first defeats.....they then went and attacked the Christians burning down their Churches and homes. Again they used Chems like Assad did. They don't care about the people.....and its been shown in their actions.
All that talking they do is front of the Camera is thru Al Jazeera and thru Sunni Communications and Broadcasting.
Yeah they do keep falling back to the term Moderates.....look up that thread. In Honor of the Syrian Rebels. We have all their groups listed. Quite a bit of Info in there and all things that BO and his team knew about.
First off, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the form of government they take in Syria. It's none of our business. As long as they are not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy, and playing nice diplomatically whether they have a sharia compliant form of government or not is none of our concern.
If I have my numbers right, there is around 5,000 Syrian moderates that we will be equiping and training. They are up against 30,000 man ISIS and the whole Syrian army estimated at 250,000 men. That is not too good of odds. At least those are the numbers the CIA released.
If I have my numbers right, there is around 5,000 Syrian moderates that we will be equiping and training. They are up against 30,000 man ISIS and the whole Syrian army estimated at 250,000 men. That is not too good of odds. At least those are the numbers the CIA released.
This where I'm torn on this issue, and am not really sure where to be. In the US, we've had our fair share of crazies as well. The first and more prominent that come to mind is the KKK. There was a point in time in this country where they had a dominant influence in American politics. The peak being back in the early 1900's when you had that huge march of their's on DC. But as time moved along, we eventually came to realize as a society just how hateful that organization was.
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I'd like to think the same could happened in the ME. But the problem is, that I don't believe it would occur until after we suffered another attack on the homeland, or at the very least Israel was burning.
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