Should the U.S. assume our roll as tyrant killer?

[stsburns]

Ask a coherant question, and I will give you a relevant answer.

Name some tyrants?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Stop playing word games. I've told you, we agreed to honor the conditions of Article 51 of the UN Charter. When I say "agreed", I mean it is the law of our land. As in Constitutional law. He didn't attack us, and we didn't get UNSC authorization. So, we did not have the right.

But you probably think it is perfectly OK for us to run around the planet kidnapping people, taking them to secret locations in other countries, killing democratically elected leaders and re-instating brutal dictators that were friendly to us, so they could do their own version of Saddaam Hussein in their own country with Congressional support and funding.

Did you know hypocrisy is the only sin from which there is no forgiveness.

LMFAO, so there was a constitutional amendment to provide for the U.N.. If anything the U.N. is contrary to the F.F.'s intentions of an Isolationist nation.

U.N. resolution 1441 Billo, nuff said.

 

[Iriemon]

o.k. Saddam took power by force, he maintained his rule by force fear and intimidation, so who's to say that we didn't have every right to remove him by force?

Upon what basis do we have the right to unilaterally interfere with the right of a nation to self-determine its own government? Because we are stronger than they are? We have more guns?

Might makes right. That is the basis of the moral code underlying your premise. The moral code of a bully.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Upon what basis do we have the right to unilaterally interfere with the right of a nation to self-determine its own government? Because we are stronger than they are? We have more guns?

Might makes right. That is the basis of the moral code underlying your premise. The moral code of a bully.

What moral code do you live by when you see injustice and stand by and do nothing?

What moral code do you live by when you consider it a right for a genocidal maniac like Saddam Hussein to massacre his own people and threaten his neighbors with impunity?

By what moral right did Saddam Hussein have to rule Iraq?

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the people of Iraq had self determination? If you actually believe that you're living in a dream world that Michael Moore painted for you with Iraqi children flying kites.

Saddam Hussein was in violation of the international Bill of Rights, Saddam Hussein perpetrated crimes against humanity, Saddam Hussein waged war against his neighbors, Saddam Hussein continued to threaten his neighbors even after he was forced to leave Kuwait, Saddam Hussein violated 20 odd U.N. resolutions leveed against him in defiance of the entire world, Saddam Hussein had ties with Al-Qaeda, we had every right nay an obligation to remove Hussein from power.

 

[Iriemon]

What moral code do you live by when you see injustice and stand by and do nothing?

It is called the rule of law. I don't impose my moral code upon others where it conflicts with the rules of law. I don't base my code of behavior upon the fact that if someone does something I don't morally approve them I have the right to kill them because I have the biggest gun. Do you?

What moral code do you live by when you consider it a right for a genocidal maniac like Saddam Hussein to massacre his own people and threaten his neighbors with impunity?

Who said I considered it a right?

By what moral right did Saddam Hussein have to rule Iraq?

Who said he had such a moral right? But I don't believe Hussein was installed by some foreign power.

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the people of Iraq had self determination? If you actually believe that you're living in a dream world that Michael Moore painted for you with Iraqi children flying kites.

Who said they had self-determination? But obviously some large portion of the Iraqi population supported him or they would have overthrown him, like happened to the Shah of Iran, and numerous other dictators in history.

Saddam Hussein was in violation of the international Bill of Rights, Saddam Hussein perpetrated crimes against humanity, Saddam Hussein waged war against his neighbors, Saddam Hussein continued to threaten his neighbors even after he was forced to leave Kuwait, Saddam Hussein violated 20 odd U.N. resolutions leveed against him in defiance of the entire world, Saddam Hussein had ties with Al-Qaeda, we had every right nay an obligation to remove Hussein from power.

So what right do we have to unilaterally make those determination? Might makes right. Right? The morals of the bully.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It is called the rule of law. I don't impose my moral code upon others where it conflicts with the rules of law. I don't base my code of behavior upon the fact that if someone does something I don't morally approve them I have the right to kill them because I have the biggest gun. Do you?

What laws has the Iraq war broken ever hear of resolution 1441?

Who said I considered it a right?



Who said he had such a moral right? But I don't believe Hussein was installed by some foreign power.



Who said they had self-determination? But obviously some large portion of the Iraqi population supported him or they would have overthrown him, like happened to the Shah of Iran, and numerous other dictators in history.

They tried that after the first gulf war, got them genocide but not freedom.

So what right do we have to unilaterally make those determination? Might makes right. Right? The morals of the bully.

Nope right makes right, Saddam Hussein continously violated international law and we had every legal right to take him down.

 

[Iriemon]

Nope right makes right, Saddam Hussein continously violated international law and we had every legal right to take him down.

I didn't know the US was the entity that decides international law.

 

[Deegan]

I didn't know the US was the entity that decides international law.

Well now you know, and don't you feel so much more better knowing that? If we left it up to the U.N, absolutely nothing would get done.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I didn't know the US was the entity that decides international law.

welp actually the U.N. decided that Iraq was indeed in violation of international law eg resolution 1441.

 

[MSgt]

I didn't know the US was the entity that decides international law.

As long as we're the ones who's military is in every nasty corner of earth - the one's in who's military is stationed in embassies globally keeping peace - the one's in who's diplomacy has appeased away more war than anything else - the one's who constantly expend our wealth and human stock keeping countries in Europe safe for nearly a century - the one's in who's military deploys to aid global natural disasters in countries in who's people spit on us after receiving aid - the only one's who enforce international law.......yes. We do decide international law.

Like I've said before....until these other high and mighty countries stop hiding behind our muscle, using our economy, using our mistakes to exonerate their slothfullness, and hiding behind words like "soveriegnty" to dismiss other nations abuse of their people - they don't matter. They don't care enough to help their fellow man. You think they care enough to lift a finger to stop us from helping or doing what we do in their absence? The truth is that despite their people's whining and their government's snobby accusations, they need us to exist. Our actions have benefitted their economies. Our diplomacies have kept the peace everywhere. Our abilities have aided more people than any mass of nations around the globe could achieve.

I've witnessed the strength of the UN and the arguing countries under them. They are useless. The UN is an idea. The UN has long forgotten why it was created.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
welp actually the U.N. decided that Iraq was indeed in violation of international law eg resolution 1441.

You are correct sir. Maybe down the road, I can throw this in your face later. Until then, I agree.

 

[MSgt]

The UN has also declared Sudan as a country devistated by war criminal attrocities and in need of humanitarian support. The UN also declared that the Iranian President is a threat to global peace. That's what the UN is good for...identifying where America needs expend its wealth and human resource in their absence.

When we act in our own interests.....we're war mongers. It's a shame this civilization in the Middle East isn't raising their children to hate Europe and all of the terror attacks we've sufferred was theirs to suffer. They wouldn't have given the civillian deaths inside Iraq and Afghanistan a second thought - just like the civillian deaths in Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany, France, Belgium, and every other country where America has killed for their safety.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
The UN has also declared Sudan as a country devistated by war criminal attrocities and in need of humanitarian support. The UN also declared that the Iranian President is a threat to global peace. That's what the UN is good for...identifying where America needs expend its wealth and human resource in their absence.

When we act in our own interests.....we're war mongers. It's a shame this civilization in the Middle East isn't raising their children to hate Europe and all of the terror attacks we've sufferred was theirs to suffer. They wouldn't have given the civillian deaths inside Iraq and Afghanistan a second thought - just like the civillian deaths in Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany, France, Belgium, and every other country where America has killed for their safety.

Just remember, when you speak of the UN, you are speaking of the US. We are the UN. We are also probably a bigger part of the UN than all but four other countries. Remember that.

 

[MSgt]

Just remember, when you speak of the UN, you are speaking of the US. We are the UN. We are also probably a bigger part of the UN than all but four other countries. Remember that.

I do remember that. All the more joke of what the UN is. Without us earging and prodding....it would stagnate on all fronts or simply fall apart.

 

[stsburns]

welp actually the U.N. decided that Iraq was indeed in violation of international law eg resolution 1441.

So it was illegal but not Unconstitutional? :mrgreen:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

So it was illegal but not Unconstitutional? :mrgreen:

Well actually it was totally legal under both U.S. and International Law, first there was a Joint Resolution of Congress to authorize the use of force in accord with the War Powers Resolution of 1973 and the attrocities commited by Saddam's ba'athist regime constitute as grounds to remove him from power under International Law.

 

[stsburns]

Well actually it was totally legal under both U.S. and International Law, first there was a Joint Resolution of Congress to authorize the use of force in accord with the War Powers Resolution of 1973 and the attrocities commited by Saddam's ba'athist regime constitute as grounds to remove him from power under International Law.

Yea, I remember reading the senate passing the votes into law at senate.org. I can't believe I forgot it. I guess I was having a Homer Simpson moment... :doh

 

[Duke]

I think there is more to foreign policy that either "Tyrant Killers" or "Isolationists". Anyone who thinks that is all there is to it could use a lobotomy.


Duke

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I think there is more to foreign policy that either "Tyrant Killers" or "Isolationists". Anyone who thinks that is all there is to it could use a lobotomy.


Duke

Interventionalist or Isolationist there is no middle ground, in war there are only winners, losers, and those who stay out of it.

Anyone who thinks different could use a dose of reality.

 

[Duke]

Interventionalist or Isolationist there is no middle ground, in war there are only winners, losers, and those who stay out of it.

Anyone who thinks different could use a dose of reality.

You sure have a one-track mind. Did you happen to notice that I said, "foreign policy", not just war.

If you can't tell the difference, go back to school.


Duke