Should the total Mueller report be made public?

[Gaugingcatenate]

It is not about you and me, and we don't have to 'get anywhere' with one another. Eeew.

My comments on the blogosphere are true enough. It is infested with those types. And outside of that realm, and of course Fox's echo chamber (and even that may not be on board with trump forever) nobody is talking about the alleged excesses of Mueller which have already been demonstrated false. Everyone is waiting on the findings of the Mueller report and what it has to say about Trump.

Hey the pro-Trump camp may yet be vindicated if it shows no wrongdoing. I doubt it but that's what criminal investigations are for: to root out the truth. Let's just wait for that.

Criminal investigations are based, at "root", on investigating a crime.

Mueller and all you folks cannot even specify the crime being investigated... but we are not supposed to call an investigation not founded on a crime but in search of one... a "witch hunt".

Can't get much more witch huntery than that.

 

[uptower]

Criminal investigations are based, at "root", on investigating a crime.

Mueller and all you folks cannot even specify the crime being investigated... but we are not supposed to call an investigation not founded on a crime but in search of one... a "witch hunt".

Can't get much more witch huntery than that.

As per the thread title, I guess we'll find out when the special counsel submits. My guess is conspiracy, obstruction, stuff like that. But you're right, we don't know for sure yet. We have a pretty good idea based on the evidence so far, but let's wait and see.

 

[Superfly]

Awful lot of witches found so far.

Just sayin'.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

As per the thread title, I guess we'll find out when the special counsel submits. My guess is conspiracy, obstruction, stuff like that. But you're right, we don't know for sure yet. We have a pretty good idea based on the evidence so far, but let's wait and see.

What is "the evidence so far" again?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Awful lot of witches found so far.

Just sayin'.

You know very well with almost 30k posts how to reply directly to me... scared, eh? I get it.

They found a lot of "real" witches in Salem, too. I know this hurts, but ya think if there were 17 Fed prosecutors on your butt with an unlimited budget, no limited scope, the ability to go anywhere, able to breach atty client privilege, looking into anyone even remotely associated with you and this went on for two plus years... that they may find a few jaywalkers and above?

Damned straight they could...and would. So, what's your point again?

 

[Superfly]

You know very well with almost 30k posts how to reply directly to me... scared, eh? I get it.

They found a lot of "real" witches in Salem, too. I know this hurts, but ya think if there were 17 Fed prosecutors on your butt with an unlimited budget, no limited scope, the ability to go anywhere, able to breach atty client privilege, looking into anyone even remotely associated with you and this went on for two plus years... that they may find a few jaywalkers and above?

Damned straight they could...and would. So, what's your point again?

Scared of you? No. When I made my post, it expected it to fall directly under yours. When I submitted the post, I saw that Uptower had posted before I got the chance to. Thought about it for a minute, wondered if I should edit the post to include yours, since it no longer fell directly below yours, and then thought, "Nah, nobody will piss and moan that much if I don't quote them in a thread they are actually involved in." Guess I was wrong. You'll always have people pissing and moaning about something. :shrug:

And jaywalkers? :lol: He's found a little more than jaywalking.

• George Papadapoulus was found guilty of lying to the FBI (and not lying about jaywalking).
• Paul Manafort was indicted on 25 counts from the FBI and not one of them was for jaywalking.
• Rick Gates pled down to lying to the FBI and conspiracy (not to jaywalk, though).
• Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI (but he didn't lie about jaywalking).
• Michael Cohen pled guilty to 8 counts of tax charges and campaign finance violations (maybe they've yet to charge him with jaywalking?)
• Many, many others are either pleading guilty and / or have been charged with different crimes relating to Russia. Not a single one of them have anything to do with jaywalking.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Scared of you? No. When I made my post, it expected it to fall directly under yours. When I submitted the post, I saw that Uptower had posted before I got the chance to. Thought about it for a minute, wondered if I should edit the post to include yours, since it no longer fell directly below yours, and then thought, "Nah, nobody will piss and moan that much if I don't quote them in a thread they are actually involved in." Guess I was wrong. You'll always have people pissing and moaning about something. :shrug:

And jaywalkers? :lol: He's found a little more than jaywalking.

• George Papadapoulus was found guilty of lying to the FBI (and not lying about jaywalking).
• Paul Manafort was indicted on 25 counts from the FBI and not one of them was for jaywalking.
• Rick Gates pled down to lying to the FBI and conspiracy (not to jaywalk, though).
• Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI (but he didn't lie about jaywalking).
• Michael Cohen pled guilty to 8 counts of tax charges and campaign finance violations (maybe they've yet to charge him with jaywalking?)
• Many, many others are either pleading guilty and / or have been charged with different crimes relating to Russia. Not a single one of them have anything to do with jaywalking.

Little is exactly the right word here.

Congratulations.

Or something.

 

[Peter King]

It is a simple question, in your opinion, should the total Mueller report be made public? Please give your reasoning.

Yes, unless there is data in there that would threaten the safety of the USA, then that may be blacked out but I think the rest of the report should be made public so that the public can read how deep this Russian intrusion into their election really went.

 

[haymarket]

Absolutely. The American people have a right to know how the Russians did what they did in hijacking our election and which Americans betrayed their nation in assisting them.

 

[tecoyah]

It is a simple question, in your opinion, should the total Mueller report be made public? Please give your reasoning.

The report should be made public....I would say after redaction for military security as required but that too has been compromised by Trumpsm. There does not seem to be anyone left to redact honestly now....they have all left or been removed.

 

[OrphanSlug]

It is a simple question, in your opinion, should the total Mueller report be made public? Please give your reasoning.

I am very much on the fence on this.

We can safely assume there will be things in the report that both Trump’s administration and the Russian government will get solid conformation of, with all sorts of dates and name, and that tends to lean towards the whole thing ending up in the political propaganda spin machine. Seeing how Trump treats his own lawyers we can also safely assume there will be plenty of mid level people involved in this thrown under the bus.

On the other hand, it probably should be public in that there are far too many secrets our government is counting on to the detriment of the voter. We need to know how far this went in the profit of both Trump and those overseas he worked with for whatever reason.

There will be consequences but I am leaning towards the entire report being public.

 

[uptower]

What is "the evidence so far" again?

Evidence of 'collusion'

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17438386/trump-russia-collusion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-a-crime-hes-right-its-actually-many-crimes/

Evidence of Obstruction

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/op...ted-justice-mueller-can-prove-it-13175314.php

https://www.brookings.edu/research/...stice-the-case-of-donald-j-trump-2nd-edition/

Note I was asked for 'evidence' not PROOFTM. Evidence exists in the real world; PROOFTM seems to have its own subjective meaning on the interwebz. None of us can definitively prove what Trump did here, now, on these forums. Nor should we have to: innocent until guilty and all that.

For the final word, we have to wait and see when the report comes in, which is the topic of this thread, and after that any legal proceedings that come out of it.

But to many, the evidence so far makes a compelling case, and that's why the investigation hasn't been wrapped up.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Scared of you? No. When I made my post, it expected it to fall directly under yours. When I submitted the post, I saw that Uptower had posted before I got the chance to. Thought about it for a minute, wondered if I should edit the post to include yours, since it no longer fell directly below yours, and then thought, "Nah, nobody will piss and moan that much if I don't quote them in a thread they are actually involved in." Guess I was wrong. You'll always have people pissing and moaning about something. :shrug:

And jaywalkers? :lol: He's found a little more than jaywalking.

• George Papadapoulus was found guilty of lying to the FBI (and not lying about jaywalking).
• Paul Manafort was indicted on 25 counts from the FBI and not one of them was for jaywalking.
• Rick Gates pled down to lying to the FBI and conspiracy (not to jaywalk, though).
• Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI (but he didn't lie about jaywalking).
• Michael Cohen pled guilty to 8 counts of tax charges and campaign finance violations (maybe they've yet to charge him with jaywalking?)
• Many, many others are either pleading guilty and / or have been charged with different crimes relating to Russia. Not a single one of them have anything to do with jaywalking.

Part 1

Shakespeare probably captured it best with his, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks." But you really haven't much more credibility to lose anyhow, me also thinks.

1. Process crime after the fact [read: Muel created crime]; information has come to bear out this was a total setup. All kinds of shennanigans going on with his "accidental" meeting with Clinton foundation connected Amb. Downer. Funny how the 5 Eyes were apparently utilized in this covert op. Prof. Misfud and his darling assistant, who were they working for? Looks more and more like friendlies and not the ruRuru Russians... oOOOooooooOOoo la la....

2. Not one of them for conspiracy, collusion either...the Manafort that was hired as campaign chair and then gone in 3 months from the Trump campaign? Wow. For things he did way before the campaign. The ONLY reason they reopened the case dropped by earlier DOJ investigators, is to put on the squeeze, which they have but have gotten nothing in return against our righteous, apparently criminally squeaky clean, president.

Who'd a thunk, eh?

3. Yeah, where are the collusion conspiracy charges?

4. "

5. He pled guilty to things, just as Manfort above, having been committed by him individually having nothing to do with Trump. There were no campaign violations, ask the people at the FEC whose job it is to so determine. He pled guilty to non crimes, just as the president said, to get a reduced sentence for the actual crimes he did committ... who wouldn't've?

6. None, however, related to Trump. Just as I said, if they came after you and anybody who knows you for 2 plus straight years, unlimited time, unlimted scope, unlimited budget with a counterintelligence op enticing, trying to get you or your friends, acquaintances, associates and colleagues to do something wrong, an op started way in advance of the full court press investigation of anything and everything... you too would have a bunch of crimes and indictments mounting up all around you... and, no, they would not have to be jaywalking, either. All it takes is a little cunning on the part of the investigators and a willingness to do the immoral.

Can you cite every email you forwarded from 2016? If you can't, and you forwarded something, should that be indictable?

Ask Jerome Corsi what he thinks on that matter with the Muel. They are trying to put him in jail for the rest of his life for such.

A special counsel out of control with no proper oversight in the DOJ. Questions of the Muel should be answered as well, such as what did he, as Dir of the FBI, currently the FBMorI, report quarterly to the Senate and House committees regarding the Uranium One investigation on the kickbacks, money laundering, extortion, bribery, etc...the precursor case to that in which Carter Page, well known to the FBMorI, was a witness against the Russians in that case.

Wanna guess who was the prosecutor in that case? Ol Rodney Rosensteinks. The FBMorI official involved? Andrew McCabe

Don't believe me, here from the mouths of the FBI themselves:

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Part 2

GREENBELT, MD—A criminal complaint was unsealed late yesterday charging Vadim Mikerin, age 55, a Russian national residing in Chevy Chase, Maryland, with conspiring to commit extortion in connection with a scheme to obtain contracts from a Russian company without having to compete for the contracts. A separate criminal complaint charges Daren Condrey and his wife Carol Condrey, both age 49, of Glenwood, Maryland, and Boris Rubizhevsky, age 63, of Closter, New Jersey, with conspiring to commit wire fraud in connection with the scheme.

The criminal complaints were announced by United States Attorney for the District of Maryland Rod J. Rosenstein; John R. Hartman, Deputy Inspector General for Investigations, Office of Inspector General at the U.S. Department of Energy; and Assistant Director in Charge Andrew G. McCabe of the Federal Bureau of Investigation—Washington Field Office.

“Kickbacks deprive honest competitors of the opportunity to compete for business, and they cheat a company of its right to faithful decisions by its employee,” said U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein.

In1992, the U.S. and Russia executed an agreement to dispose of Russian highly enriched uranium from disassembled nuclear warheads and for the sale of the material, once down-blended, to U.S. nuclear utility providers. JSC Techsnabexport (TENEX), based in Moscow, Russia, was responsible for the sale and transportation of this material to the United States.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...-to-transport-russian-nuclear-fuel-to-the-u.s

So we have the three players, Carter Page [he was a witness for the prosecution in this case], Rosensteinks and McCabe all knowing, working with each other way before the current Russian Hoax. All of which a 4th player, the Muel would have been, if not totally incompetent, aware of and should have been reporting to the Congress. Especially, as Director, should have reported these investigations to CFIUS before they allowed the sale of our national security asset to our arch enemies.

But you don't wanna know about any of that... not when you can just mention Trump, bad bad man, really bad bad man and get dozens of likes, eh?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Evidence of 'collusion'

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17438386/trump-russia-collusion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-a-crime-hes-right-its-actually-many-crimes/

Evidence of Obstruction

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/op...ted-justice-mueller-can-prove-it-13175314.php

https://www.brookings.edu/research/...stice-the-case-of-donald-j-trump-2nd-edition/

Note I was asked for 'evidence' not PROOFTM. Evidence exists in the real world; PROOFTM seems to have its own subjective meaning on the interwebz. None of us can definitively prove what Trump did here, now, on these forums. Nor should we have to: innocent until guilty and all that.

For the final word, we have to wait and see when the report comes in, which is the topic of this thread, and after that any legal proceedings that come out of it.

But to many, the evidence so far makes a compelling case, and that's why the investigation hasn't been wrapped up.

Ah, evidence of what, certainly not any of actual enumerated crimes committed.

No evidence of any criminality in the first source at all. On the second if the ifs were ****s and buts were butts, you would be wiping up some major stinky mess there. The third is based on a totally baseless argument...as there is no campaign violation.

Ask John Edwards who actually solicited and took major donor money to give to/pay off his mistress... or ask slenderfella who paid the largest campaign violation fine in history... there is no criminal wrongdoing and the hoops they would have to go through to prove it concerning his prior knowledge of fact that it could...on the far outskirts of any materiality of being a violation, such as if the payments were ONLY done for the campaign and he had never done anything like this before [ Hell, you guys label Cohen the fixer, what do you think he might have been fixing all those years prior?] and finally the fact that he contributed much of the money for his campaign himself and can pretty much use it any way he pleases.

The 4th is also a ridiculous joke as well. You will notice how they didn't mention a single statute violated... ever wonder why?

They don't exist.

That's not evidence, that is the MSM pumping a lot of liquid into the already overly moist dreams of a bunch of libs who are rabidly addicted to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING one can say, draw or completely make up regarding this silliness that you folks have dragged us through for over 2 long tedious years now.

I would say stop, but an addict needs a fix... going cold turkey into reality is just too much for some to even contemplate.

 

[OscarLevant]

It is a simple question, in your opinion, should the total Mueller report be made public? Please give your reasoning.

If it isn't it will be subpoenaed by the house intelligence committee when Adam Schiff becomes its chairman and it will be made public and I think the reasons should be obvious

 

[Superfly]

But you don't wanna know about any of that... not when you can just mention Trump, bad bad man, really bad bad man and get dozens of likes, eh?

I care as much about "likes" as I do about your conspiracy theory hogwash. I almost stopped after you started yammering about the "Clinton Foundation" but gave you the benefit of the doubt instead.

Your screed is nothing but a conspiracy theory, and is part of the reason that most on here don't take your posts seriously.

You'll excuse me if I believe the FBI over some crazy, nonsensical posts on the internet, from somebody I will thankfully never know.

 

[OscarLevant]

Criminal investigations are based, at "root", on investigating a crime.

Mueller and all you folks cannot even specify the crime being investigated... but we are not supposed to call an investigation not founded on a crime but in search of one... a "witch hunt".

Can't get much more witch huntery than that.

An investigator cannot specify what crimes are committed until the investigation is finished, which is what an investigation is for-- to determine what crimes were committed if any and to indict , if warranted.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I care as much about "likes" as I do about your conspiracy theory hogwash. I almost stopped after you started yammering about the "Clinton Foundation" but gave you the benefit of the doubt instead.

Your screed is nothing but a conspiracy theory, and is part of the reason that most on here don't take your posts seriously.

You'll excuse me if I believe the FBI over some crazy, nonsensical posts on the internet, from somebody I will thankfully never know.

Well, holiday cheers to you, too. Heres to the so easily hoodwinked lefties on site, may they never open their eyes nor ears until shocked when it all comes out. Its gonna be that no matter if I wish for it or not, so what the hell.

But that we could keep their foul mouths just as tightly sealed. Such is life, there but for the grace of God go I... thank you God.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

An investigator cannot specify what crimes are committed until the investigation is finished, which is what an investigation is for-- to determine what crimes were committed if any and to indict , if warranted.

No duh, Sherlock.

The system calls for a criminal investigation when there is suspicion of an actual crime. We don't just let the government decide they are gonna investigate ol Oscar for the potential of some crime and then investigate until they ultimately find one. Right?

Or are you enjoying our slide into a police state like that?

 

[OscarLevant]

You know very well with almost 30k posts how to reply directly to me... scared, eh? I get it.

They found a lot of "real" witches in Salem, too. I know this hurts, but ya think if there were 17 Fed prosecutors on your butt with an unlimited budget, no limited scope, the ability to go anywhere, able to breach atty client privilege, looking into anyone even remotely associated with you and this went on for two plus years... that they may find a few jaywalkers and above?

Damned straight they could...and would. So, what's your point again?

Nice spin but Mueller is finding real Crimes by real criminals. Corruption and obstruction of justice is not jaywalking.

 

[OscarLevant]

You know very well with almost 30k posts how to reply directly to me... scared, eh? I get it.

They found a lot of "real" witches in Salem, too. I know this hurts, but ya think if there were 17 Fed prosecutors on your butt with an unlimited budget, no limited scope, the ability to go anywhere, able to breach atty client privilege, looking into anyone even remotely associated with you and this went on for two plus years... that they may find a few jaywalkers and above?

Damned straight they could...and would. So, what's your point again?

No you don't get it.

Nice spin but Mueller is finding real Crimes by real criminals. Corruption and obstruction of justice is not jaywalking.

Mueller would not hire 17 prosecutors if it were only jaywalking he would hire that many prosecutors because of the size of the task. He's moving much swifter than the investigations against Hillary and Bill, and I suspect you didn't bitch about those investigations


FYI, there is no attorney-client privilege when the attorney and the client conspire to commit a crime.

 

[Helix]

Should the total Mueller report be made public?

i support that unless it puts a government agent at risk. that part should be redacted.

 

[Bullseye]

No duh, Sherlock.

The system calls for a criminal investigation when there is suspicion of an actual crime. We don't just let the government decide they are gonna investigate ol Oscar for the potential of some crime and then investigate until they ultimately find one. Right?

Or are you enjoying our slide into a police state like that?

Mueller still seems to be grasping at straws - going after people because they can't remember forwarding one email out of thousands years ago, for instance. Or spending thousands of hours of effort to bring Flynn to trial and the recommending NO PRISON TIME?

Several months ago I joked that Santa Claus would arrive before Mueller actually produced anything on his PRIMARY job - finding evidence of collusion between Trump campaign and the Russian government. In just a few hours that will turn from a joke to a factual statement. Anyone wanna bet on the Easter Bunny? The Tooth Fairy? A cure for cancer?

 

[uptower]

Ah, evidence of what, certainly not any of actual enumerated crimes committed.

No evidence of any criminality in the first source at all. On the second if the ifs were ****s and buts were butts, you would be wiping up some major stinky mess there. The third is based on a totally baseless argument...as there is no campaign violation.

As I pointed out, there is plenty of evidence in those links.

1. Trump campaign officials met with Russian agents. The specifics of the meeting appear to be open to debate, but it's hard to imagine it was anything other than the promised dirt on Clinton to which Don Jr crowed, 'I love it': evidence.

2. Trump fired comey, fired and replaced justice officials and confessed both on TV and radio to doing so for the purposes of impeding the investigation: evidence, and very close to the PROOFTM that the interwebz incessantly demand.

3. Trump continues to try and skew it with constant twitter rants: evidence.

4. Trump's personal lawyer has pleaded guilty to committing campaign finance violations at the direction of Individual-1, AKA Donald J Trump. Also very strong evidence bordering on the ever-elusive PROOFTM

Evidence. Whether we choose to accept it or dismiss it depends on how much we trust or distrust Trump, I suppose, but it's still there. It's hard to be subjective anymore; it is easy to be civil however, so let's wait and watch with calm heads till the Mueller findings come in.

As I said, maybe it'll be like the Clinton emails and they'll say, Nah, he didn't do anything too serious.