Should the sex/gender of all living creatures no longer be stated since we can't know?

joko104 · Dec 5, 2019

The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

Rich2018 · Dec 5, 2019

We only need to concern ourselves with humans.

And the sex/gender does not need to be included in any birth certificate.

Captain Adverse · Dec 5, 2019

Rich2018 said:
We only need to concern ourselves with humans.

And the sex/gender does not need to be included in any birth certificate.

Yes, it does.

There are only two sexes. You can "believe" anything you want to...you can have any operation that you wish to (as a consenting adult). But regardless of what you choose to "believe," biologically there are only two human sexes. Males and Females.

It is an important identifier on a birth certificate, which exists as one's first record of identity.

Moreover, you should not be allowed to "fool" someone into thinking you are the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Men and women seek each other as a natural outgrowth of the need to procreate. That is the prime purpose behind sexual differentiation. IMO everyone who seeks to be involved in a permanent relationship, expecting to have children, has a RIGHT to know whether the person they are involved with has the inherent capability of doing so. A properly identified birth certificate prevents "fraud" in such relationships.

Rickeroo · Dec 5, 2019

I'd say we can no longer assign sex to animals fairly soon. Animals lack consent to either accept or determine their own sex, and so does a one year old baby. By habit, that one year old is brutally assigned a sex, usually based on biology. When the baby comes of age, they can then reverse the "decision" that someone made when they were born.

Once it becomes illegal to determine or "assign" sex at birth (I'd give it 5 years or so), then the concept of sex "assignment" to animals would also be improper.

Rich2018 · Dec 5, 2019

Captain Adverse said:
Yes, it does.

There are only two sexes. You can "believe" anything you want to...you can have any operation that you wish to (as a consenting adult). But regardless of what you choose to "believe," biologically there are only two human sexes. Males and Females.

It is an important identifier on a birth certificate, which exists as one's first record of identity.

No it doesn't

Why do you feel that your idea that there are only two sexes is important identifier on a birth certificate ?

Why can't your name be the first record of identity ?

What would happen if sex/gender was removed from birth certificates ?

CLAX1911 · Dec 8, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

Honestly all of this gender identity crap and like the gender-nonconforming people are all just a fad. I don't doubt there are transgender people but I think that's rather rare. People like to do things and say things that make them seem edgy or sophisticated.

No you really have to do to be considered trans or nonbinary is say you are.

The best way to end this is for all of the not so sophisticated people to say that they're trans are not in binary. It will be played out by that point end the trend followers will leave because it's not sophisticated anymore.

When it falls out of favor and something cool you could just say I lied.

AGENT J · Dec 11, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

aaaand another completely failed and dishonest OP/thread, lol awesome

opcorn2:

Rich2018 · Dec 11, 2019

CLAX1911 said:
The best way to end this is for all of the not so sophisticated people to say that they're trans are not in binary. It will be played out by that point end the trend followers will leave because it's not sophisticated anymore.

When it falls out of favor and something cool you could just say I lied.

Why not simply remove official recognition of gender/sex so that it becomes a non issue ?

Cougarbear · Dec 11, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be. For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

Huh??? We know the sex and gender (same thing) of insects. In fact, if you don't believe me, I'll give you two black widows. One male and one female and you tease both of them. I guarantee 100% that you will know which is the female in a hurry! There is no belief by animals of what they are. They are either male of female. And, they know it because they were born that way. Male or female. It's called biology and DNA. Facts are facts. You can believe you are a kangaroo all you want but you will never hop around like one. Nor will you ever carry a fetus in a pouch outside your tummy either. This is a stupid topic yet it's destroying the very fabric of society. Men are men and women are women. Doesn't matter what they think. In fact, a man can cut his manhood off, grow boobs and he still will be a male biologically and his DNA will prove it.

Cougarbear · Dec 11, 2019

Rickeroo said:
I'd say we can no longer assign sex to animals fairly soon. Animals lack consent to either accept or determine their own sex, and so does a one year old baby. By habit, that one year old is brutally assigned a sex, usually based on biology. When the baby comes of age, they can then reverse the "decision" that someone made when they were born.

Once it becomes illegal to determine or "assign" sex at birth (I'd give it 5 years or so), then the concept of sex "assignment" to animals would also be improper.

I know you are trying to be cute about this topic. But, you made some errors. When the baby comes of age and wacks off his penis or has one constructed where a vagina was, the biology doesn't change. The DNA doesn't change. They may try to look like someone of the opposite gender, but they will never be of the opposite gender. Bruce Jenner is and always will be male. No matter what he thinks and looks like. The thing is, he was a good looking man and now he just looks like an ugly woman.

Cougarbear · Dec 11, 2019

Rich2018 said:
Why not simply remove official recognition of gender/sex so that it becomes a non issue ?

Ignoring what is going on doesn't make the issue go away. There is something mentally unstable with those who want to be of the opposite sex. Fix that and the 95% of us who are heterosexual and stable don't have to succumb to the 5% crazies of the world.

Rich2018 · Dec 11, 2019

Cougarbear said:
Ignoring what is going on doesn't make the issue go away. There is something mentally unstable with those who want to be of the opposite sex. Fix that and the 95% of us who are heterosexual and stable don't have to succumb to the 5% crazies of the world.

Removing the issue does.

Like shooting the fox before a fox hunt. Kid of defeats the purpose for the event.

Simply by not categorizing people to start with, we eliminate the cause of the problem.

Are you suggesting that it's like homosexuality and those who fail to mentally match their genitals with their self image need counselling until they do ?

Cougarbear · Dec 11, 2019

Rich2018 said:
Removing the issue does.

Like shooting the fox before a fox hunt. Kid of defeats the purpose for the event.

Simply by not categorizing people to start with, we eliminate the cause of the problem.

Are you suggesting that it's like homosexuality and those who fail to mentally match their genitals with their self image need counselling until they do ?

They need to stop trying to force the 95% who are heterosexual to conform to this idea that gender isn't real. Making small children in elementary school to think they can be of the opposite sex just because they think they want to. It's sick! What you are suggesting is the elimination of gender when that can't be done. It's biological and in our DNA. Something we can't change. The fox hunt doesn't make sense because that's a made up activity that can be stopped.

Now, do homosexuals need counselling? Sure! Why not! Help them see the beauty in the opposite sex. Especially if they want to be normal heterosexuals, or at least not to succumb to sexual acts with people of the same sex. There are gays and lesbians who because of their love for the Lord thy God want to remain in good standing with the Lord. So, can they be helped by counselling? Yes. It's done all over the world. And, for many, it keeps them celibate. And, with some, they find that special someone of the opposite sex that they for whatever reason can live with and have intercourse with and live full lives children and all.

SDET · Dec 11, 2019

Rickeroo said:
I'd say we can no longer assign sex to animals fairly soon. Animals lack consent to either accept or determine their own sex, and so does a one year old baby. By habit, that one year old is brutally assigned a sex, usually based on biology. When the baby comes of age, they can then reverse the "decision" that someone made when they were born.

Once it becomes illegal to determine or "assign" sex at birth (I'd give it 5 years or so), then the concept of sex "assignment" to animals would also be improper.

Our society will one day reach a tipping point were assimilating into an indigenous tribe in the Amazon will be an appealing option.

Casper · Dec 11, 2019

Just a reminder some animals can and do change their sex, and there are documented cases of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom. That said, I do agree that transgender are fairly rare and nearly all have known all their life that they were not the sex that they were biologically born with.
My question is why does anyone care if another person determines what their true path is, it does not have the slightest impact on anyone's else's life and it is not your choice.

Rickeroo · Dec 12, 2019

Cougarbear said:
I know you are trying to be cute about this topic. But, you made some errors. When the baby comes of age and wacks off his penis or has one constructed where a vagina was, the biology doesn't change. The DNA doesn't change. They may try to look like someone of the opposite gender, but they will never be of the opposite gender. Bruce Jenner is and always will be male. No matter what he thinks and looks like. The thing is, he was a good looking man and now he just looks like an ugly woman.

I agree with you completely on all points. However, the concept of officially assigning, determining or recognizing in any way the sex of a newborn will eventually become abhorrent.

Nothing will ever change Bruce Jenner into a woman. However, the powers that be can force us into saying he's a woman. If the Ministry says 2+2=5, we are forced to comply.

Marco Montana · Dec 12, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

That claim is created by people suffering some form of dysphoria or other emotionally charged state. Feelings don't create facts, and you nor anyone else has the right to me what language I use!

Rich2018 · Dec 13, 2019

Cougarbear said:
They need to stop trying to force the 95% who are heterosexual to conform to this idea that gender isn't real....

If it's real for them, then it's real

Making small children in elementary school to think they can be of the opposite sex just because they think they want to. It's sick! What you are suggesting is the elimination of gender when that can't be done. It's biological and in our DNA. Something we can't change. The fox hunt doesn't make sense because that's a made up activity that can be stopped.

We can't change our racial grouping or our eye color either but defining it at birth does nothing of value - even though "95%" (a figure I'm sure you invented) think their ethnic group or eye color is "real"

No-one is telling a child, small or not, to pick a gender, like they're not telling the child to pick an ethnic group.

Now, do homosexuals need counselling? Sure! Why not! Help them see the beauty in the opposite sex....

Who says homosexuals don't see beauty in the opposite sex ?
Who says heterosexuals don't see beauty in the same sex ?

Do you think counseling can change what you're attracted to. If a boy like tall girls or black girls, can he be counseled ?

Especially if they want to be normal heterosexuals, or at least not to succumb to sexual acts with people of the same sex.

Why would a homosexual want to be heterosexual other than to fit in with the majority ?
Why is someone "succumbing" to sex with a member of the same sex ?

Why do you care ?

There are gays and lesbians who because of their love for the Lord thy God want to remain in good standing with the Lord...

That is a powerful argument against your church.

What about Christian churches that embrace homosexuality, even ordain homosexual pastors and even perform same sex marriages ?

Why are you so sure your church is right ?

Moonglow · Dec 13, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

What sex is an amoeba?

Rich2018 · Dec 13, 2019

Moonglow said:
What sex is an amoeba?

Male or female ?

Moonglow · Dec 13, 2019

Rich2018 said:
Male or female ?

Neither they be..

Rich2018 · Dec 13, 2019

Moonglow said:
Neither they be..

Then you have your answer.

Cougarbear · Dec 13, 2019

Rickeroo said:
I agree with you completely on all points. However, the concept of officially assigning, determining or recognizing in any way the sex of a newborn will eventually become abhorrent.

Nothing will ever change Bruce Jenner into a woman. However, the powers that be can force us into saying he's a woman. If the Ministry says 2+2=5, we are forced to comply.

No, we aren't forced to comply. That's why people often leave one Church to find another. We aren't forced to comply. We have our free moral agency to choose good or evil as well as where we find those two things.

dixon01767 · Dec 13, 2019

joko104 said:
The claim I so often read is a person's gender defines how they should be referred to, not their biological sex, because what matters is what sex the person wants to be and believes to be.

For the most part, we have no way to know what sex and gender any insect, reptile, sea life, mammal and plant wants to be or believes themselves to be. Therefore, it is impossible to know what gender the creature is - and it gender defines a person's sex, for which homo sapiens are just one of the living creatures on earth along with all the others.

Sex is easily identifiable and there is no need to know what "gender" an animal identifies as.

Lisa · Dec 13, 2019

Rickeroo said:
I agree with you completely on all points. However, the concept of officially assigning, determining or recognizing in any way the sex of a newborn will eventually become abhorrent.

Nothing will ever change Bruce Jenner into a woman. However, the powers that be can force us into saying he's a woman. If the Ministry says 2+2=5, we are forced to comply.

Who is forcing you to comply? When has this happened? Who has been jailed or fined because they refused to comply with what supposed ministry?

Caitlyn has always been female because people are either born transgendered or they are not. Medical science is limited to how much they can change with current medical technology, so they do what they can. Transgendered people would love to be able to change their DNA and/or start over with the correct body for their psychological gender identity, but it is not medically possible. It does not also mean that they aren't who they are, because they cannot change their DNA.

Should the sex/gender of all living creatures no longer be stated since we can't know?