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Should the "no recess" policy be banned?

Should the "no recess" policy be banned?


  • Total voters
    23
Kids go to school to learn. Not play. If recess was all that important then why is there no recess in high school?
Because they age out of unstructured time. Double gym periods might be a good move though, since inactivity and obesity are getting to serious levels these days.


My credentials are being the father of two....
So, no expertise, and no research. Noted.

And no, you don't have to actually be a parent to be an expert on child development and psychology. E.g. an oncologist doesn't have to have cancer to know how to treat it, or what it feels like; a therapist doesn't need to be bipolar to know how to handle it; a special education teacher doesn't need to be autistic, or have an autistic child, to know how to manage autistic children.
 
No, but only on condition that there is meaningful physical training elsewhere in the school day. Since the latter is pretty much non-existent, I suppose I should have voted yes.
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions. More and more disciplinary measures are being taken away by people that "think" they're an expert on rearing children. This keeps up and soon there won't be a damn thing you can do to teach your children right from wrong.



Schools try to implement ban on use of 'no recess'

Schools tend to be bad for kids, at least in terms of getting their attention and appealing to their desires of wanting to let out their energy.
The kids deserve a break.
 
Because they age out of unstructured time. Double gym periods might be a good move though, since inactivity and obesity are getting to serious levels these days.

The older you get the more structured life gets.

So, no expertise, and no research. Noted.

And no, you don't have to actually be a parent to be an expert on child development and psychology. E.g. an oncologist doesn't have to have cancer to know how to treat it, or what it feels like; a therapist doesn't need to be bipolar to know how to handle it; a special education teacher doesn't need to be autistic, or have an autistic child, to know how to manage autistic children.

Cancer is always the same regardless of who has it. Only difference is in the degree of cancer. Children are FAR more complex. So your analogy isn't even close. I'll trust my judgement over some "expert" any day of the week.
 
The older you get the more structured life gets.
Uh... okay... No one is arguing that 24 year olds need recess.


Cancer is always the same regardless of who has it. Only difference is in the degree of cancer. Children are FAR more complex. So your analogy isn't even close. I'll trust my judgement over some "expert" any day of the week.
On the contrary, cancer is incredibly complex and variable. A drug that works well for one person may not work for another. The progression of the disease in one person can be very different for another. Cancer is not one disease, it is more likely that it's a family of related diseases. We suspect inflammation is involved in causing cancer, but we're not sure. Our understanding of outcomes is largely probabilistic, a method of quantification that is inherently difficult for humans to process. We've been working on cancer for decades, and still face numerous difficulties in preventing, treating and understanding it.

But, that's not really the point. The issue is that you are making a naïve argument against expertise in child development and psychology.

Merely being a parent does not magically teach you about child development, or child psychology. Parents are (with good reason) not conducting studies on large groups of children for the effects of various disciplinary tools. As such, they can easily make all sorts of incorrect judgments and mistakes.

For example: One common example is that many parents believe that children become hyperactive when you give them sugar. However, this is a myth. Sugar is not a type of amphetamine, and it doesn't make adults hyperactive no matter how much sugar you give them. Double-blind studies as far back as 1995 prove it. And yet, parents routinely believe it, in no small part because they expect to see that kind of reaction, and are thus looking to confirm their own bias. (Subsequent research shows that the more a parent expects to see sugar induce hyperactivity, the more likely they are to see evidence that sugar induces hyperactivity -- even when the child is given something that does not have sugar.)

In terms of discipline, similar errors and biases are common. Almost every parent fails to realize that spanking appears to work for a brief moment, but in the long term does not change the behavior, and makes the child more resentful and aggressive. They are not necessarily willing or able to recognize broader or longer-term patterns of behavior, because....

• They are emotionally invested in their methods of discipline
• They were subjected to similar discipline methods themselves
• They aren't comparing methods and outcomes in any sort of rigorous manner
• They are not looking for broader patterns of behavior
• The sample size is far too small

We should also note that it's not like child psychology researchers lock themselves in a room with computers, and never ever encounter children. Quite the opposite; they are working with kids all the time.

So we might agree that while a parent knows the behavior of an individual child very well, that doesn't mean they are good at developing larger patterns of causality, or understanding child development and psychology as a whole. As such, parents do not necessarily know the best way to discipline a child.

We might add that your claim of Radical Parental Accuracy offers no grounds for one parent to refute another. You may claim that slapping your kids silly when they do something wrong works; another parent can claim based on the same type of evidence that physical punishment doesn't work, and time-outs and similar punishments do. Which one should we believe?
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions. More and more disciplinary measures are being taken away by people that "think" they're an expert on rearing children. This keeps up and soon there won't be a damn thing you can do to teach your children right from wrong.

SPRINGFIELD, Mo. (AP) — Although Springfield public schools have banned the use of withholding students from recess as a form of punishment, officials say the age-old practice continues in some schools.

The district established the ban on 'no recess' as part of its wellness program a few years ago because recess keeps children active. Associate Superintendent Ben Hackenwerth, who oversees elementary schools where the 'no recess' practice has long been prevalent, stressed the need to end the punishment during a school official study session Tuesday.
Schools try to implement ban on use of 'no recess'
Do they not have PE class anymore?
 
Do they not have PE class anymore?

PE classes are greatly diminished in terms of the actual level of exercise students have to perform. Make kids run, make them lift weights, make them play intensive sports.....and the parents flip out.
 
PE classes are greatly diminished in terms of the actual level of exercise students have to perform. Make kids run, make them lift weights, make them play intensive sports.....and the parents flip out.
Unfortunately, I know you're right.
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions.

The problem is that all the research done on the subject points to the fact that kids, especially little boys, also NEED time to move and play throughout the day in order to be able to pay attention in class and learn effectively. So taking recess away from kids because they're misbehaving in class is just going to lead to them misbehaving more in class because they didn't get the opportunity to burn off their energy.
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions. More and more disciplinary measures are being taken away by people that "think" they're an expert on rearing children. This keeps up and soon there won't be a damn thing you can do to teach your children right from wrong.

Schools try to implement ban on use of 'no recess'

Taking away the only time in the day where many children get to even move is pretty stupid, for a number of reasons.

One, it will probably just make them even more badly behaved. Both childrens' and adults' capacity to focus and stay still diminishes the longer they have to do it continuously. We already make them sit for far too long as it is. Even more so for children, who have a lot more energy and less willpower. You can rant and rail about it all you like, but that won't change the simple facts of neurology. Humans need to move. Especially children. We're not machines.

That's basically forcing them to do worse in school and then punishing them for what you forced them to do. It's like if you kept your employee up all night and then punished them for making mistakes the next day. What did you expect? Humans are not machines. At a certain point, we can't simply choose to "do better." Our brains have limits, and if you rob them of the minimum they need to function correctly, they simply won't.

Additionally, this is a country with a major childhood obesity problem, which has also seen drastic cuts to gym time in the last few years. A lot of students now have either no gym class at all, or only once or twice a week, and most students spend less than 20 minutes actually moving in gym. Recess is literally their only opportunity to get out of their seat most days. It's not only bad for them weight-wise, but also musculoskeletally. It's profoundly bad for our spines.

Taking that away is insane, and kind of cruel honestly. There are ways to punish that don't just deteriorate their ability to focus even more, or rob them of their only opportunity to even walk for the entire day. We treat shelter dogs better than that.

Especially in light of the fact that so many kids now have very little or no gym time whatsoever, recess should not be regarded as a privilege. It's a necessity for their health and sanity, and their ability to focus for the rest of the day.
 
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I don't think I ever meet a kid where taking things away from them worked all that well.

Really? I've met tons. Consequences are an excellent form of learning, especially when it comes to learning limits. It's certainly not the only tool to be used (reward tends to work much better), but knowing consequences and limits and what will happen if one violates them if a valuable life skill.
 
Worked wonders for my boy. He was starting to act up so bad that I took everything out of his room except his bed, pillow, and a blanket and his clothes. Even the stuffed animals that he goes to sleep with at night. Put it all in the back of my van while he was at school. He came home to having nothing. He asked where it all went and I told him I threw it all in the garbage. He was EXTREMELY upset. After about 3 days I gave it all back to him. He has RARELY gotten into trouble since. I did this 3 years ago.

My daughter on the other hand... that don't work. She's more a social butterfly than a material girl. So with her I end up punishing in ways that hurt her social life. She absolutely HATES being alone. So I can usually ground her to her room where she can't interact with anyone and she'll straighten up...for a while at least. Her biggest problem is that she doesn't think before she acts and that tends to get her into trouble. Still trying to figure something out that will last a bit more permanently. Best I can do at the moment is ground her to her room while trying to get her to think before acting.... what can I say, she's a work in progress. :D

Damn :shock:

If my parents had ever tried that I'd be heading for the highway within an hour.

As for no recess......bad idea. All it does it piss kids off, make it less likely for them to listen to the teachers, and seeing as the "beat your kid within an inch of his life" ideal is no longer considered a valid parenting tactic......

But yeah. Calling the school to ask that kids have recess taken away lol. That's ****ed up.
 
Really? I've met tons. Consequences are an excellent form of learning, especially when it comes to learning limits. It's certainly not the only tool to be used (reward tends to work much better), but knowing consequences and limits and what will happen if one violates them if a valuable life skill.

From my experience parents take it too far and do it too often and for too long. There are several consequences from this that I have seen. Increased hostility from the child, lost of interest, the child acting to undermine the punishment by showing little to no interests towards things in their life.
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions. More and more disciplinary measures are being taken away by people that "think" they're an expert on rearing children. This keeps up and soon there won't be a damn thing you can do to teach your children right from wrong.



Schools try to implement ban on use of 'no recess'

If they want to keep the kids active, hand them broom and tell them to get to work sweeping the cafeteria....
 
I don't think I ever meet a kid where taking things away from them worked all that well.

With my son that would be 100% true. At one point, we had him down to a mattress on the floor and Avon boxes for his clothes. My god-daughter runs the exact opposite. Take away one toy that she hasn't played with for two years and she has a complete meltdown.
 
So, you've got a hyperactive little boy not paying attention in class, and you make him stay-in for recess, rather than let him run some of his energy off?

Brilliant! :doh

Recess isn't the only way to burn off energy. There are a lot "chores" that can be done that will do the same thing. Also, if a short term discomfort for all involved equates to a long term benefit, then isn't it worth it??
 
Worked wonders for my boy. He was starting to act up so bad that I took everything out of his room except his bed, pillow, and a blanket and his clothes. Even the stuffed animals that he goes to sleep with at night. Put it all in the back of my van while he was at school. He came home to having nothing. He asked where it all went and I told him I threw it all in the garbage. He was EXTREMELY upset. After about 3 days I gave it all back to him. He has RARELY gotten into trouble since. I did this 3 years ago.

My daughter on the other hand... that don't work. She's more a social butterfly than a material girl. So with her I end up punishing in ways that hurt her social life. She absolutely HATES being alone. So I can usually ground her to her room where she can't interact with anyone and she'll straighten up...for a while at least. Her biggest problem is that she doesn't think before she acts and that tends to get her into trouble. Still trying to figure something out that will last a bit more permanently. Best I can do at the moment is ground her to her room while trying to get her to think before acting.... what can I say, she's a work in progress. :D

Making her "alone" may not be the solution, putting her into a social situation where she is not allowed to interact with others may be a better solution. We have a friend who's daughter sounds like yours and when they would ground her to her room, it had minimal effect, but putting her in the classic "chair in the corner" where she could hear and see the social interaction that she wanted to be a part of, but wasn't allowed to, had a vastly greater effect on her. Not all kids are the same (no two kids are alike??), so it may or may not work for you, but it might be worth trying...
 
Kids go to school to learn. Not play. If recess was all that important then why is there no recess in high school?



My credentials are being the father of two and essentially raising both of my nieces since their mother was **** at being a parent. That's more qualifications than most "child experts" that don't have children has.

They call it "English Composition"...
 
I remember the very few times I was made to sit out recess for acting up in class. Trust me, it worked.

Yet for me, being an introvert, skipping recess was nothing. I really couldn't give a crap if I had recess or not. I grew up on a farm and we worked and worked hard, so I never had extra energy to expend.
 
Yet for me, being an introvert, skipping recess was nothing. I really couldn't give a crap if I had recess or not. I grew up on a farm and we worked and worked hard, so I never had extra energy to expend.
Same here. While I liked playing with friends, being an introvert, having to sit out was not a punishment at all. In fact, sometimes I actually liked it.
 
To me, what this thread is really displaying is that there is no one blanket solution. Like it or not, kids are individuals, too, and have their own distinct personalities. There is no "one size fits all" solution, yet we keep trying to hammer one into place. Are we trying to do so out of perceived fairness? Laziness? Both?
 
Yet for me, being an introvert, skipping recess was nothing. I really couldn't give a crap if I had recess or not. I grew up on a farm and we worked and worked hard, so I never had extra energy to expend.

You raise a good point. What works for some kids may not work for others.
 
This is the first I've heard of this. Frankly I think its stupid. Kids NEED discipline and part of discipline is taking away privileges so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions. More and more disciplinary measures are being taken away by people that "think" they're an expert on rearing children. This keeps up and soon there won't be a damn thing you can do to teach your children right from wrong.



Schools try to implement ban on use of 'no recess'

Heh - the kids that get in trouble have plenty of exercise. Trust me - it's not because they're a lump on a log and doing nothing. It's often things like pushing, hitting, other means of fighting, being out of their seat . . . on and on.

If parents feel bad for their kids then maybe they need to encourage their kids to ****ing behave, damnit.
 
Heh - the kids that get in trouble have plenty of exercise. Trust me - it's not because they're a lump on a log and doing nothing. It's often things like pushing, hitting, other means of fighting, being out of their seat . . . on and on.

If parents feel bad for their kids then maybe they need to encourage their kids to ****ing behave, damnit.

Not necessarily. I got a huge number of pink slips in first grade literally for sitting, actually. In a way they didn't want me to (leg under me). Yes, I kept doing it. I didn't respond real kindly to unreasonable strong-arming. Still don't.

The things you can get punished for in school are numerous, and highly subject to the teacher. I had an absolute lunatic of a math teacher who used to meter out harsh punishments for answering a question wrong.
 
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