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should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestinians?

Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yeah, like the French, the Germans, and the Russians, all of whom acted in the UN Security Council to prevent international action because they were making money with Saddam in power.

Please do not quote ANYTHING about making money. All of the permenate members of the SC sell weapons, but the US is the leader. They too sold weapons to Saddam right up to Kuwait.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
What's not ever stated is that Iraq is part of a natural strategic plan. It's in the middle of the map, after all.

You seem to think that because Iraq is in the middle of the map, that gives the US the right and obligation to conquer it. Well it doesn't. Just cause it is a strategic location with a lot of oil, that doesn't give the US the right to invade. And to invade under the veil of "war on terror" is even more wrong.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Well, if that's the case, why did you claim that we'd be in a stand-off with Iran? Backing away from an unsupportable position, are you?

You do realize that those straws won't keep you afloat? Perhaps you don't know what the term "isostatic adjustment" means? Clearly this is so.

All wars are about self-preservation. There could have been other ways to deal with Iraq, but then we'd have appeared to be coddling dictators, and you're already on record for opposing that, aren't you?

There are ways to aid democracy without forcing it with bombs, or having other dictators force it from outside. In fact, neither will bring real democracy - but then again that is not what this war is about anyways.

The US does coddle dictators, so don't say that the other ways to deal with Iraq would have required it. The US did it before Iraq and will continue to do it after Iraq. Iraq has nothing to do with anti-dictator desires.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yeah, the real world isn't a nice place, is it? Deals with unpleasant people are necessary when the alternatives are worse. Why did we arm the Mujehadeen in Afghanland? Because at the time we couldn't afford to let Gorbachev succeed in stealing that place. Why did we arm Hussein? Because he was helpful in squashing Iranian expansionist ambitions.

Both tactics had their place, they were successful, and we're better off for employing them. For the same reason, Roosevelt made a deal with Stalin against Hitler.

I have no problem with the US in its 20th century role. I applaud it. I may seem to come at the US, but my only issues with US foreign policies have been under this adminstration. And it is even more inexcusable due to the opprotunity to really make the world a safer place with the world-wide political captial Bush had after 911 - which he completely wasted.

The neoconservative momentuem was there in the Reagan era, but didn't fully take control until Bush 43. Once 911 hit, they were in place to start PNAC, and they have. That is where the US stopped being a force of conservative balance in the cold-war / post-cold-war eras, and started being a neoconservative destabilizing force that only cares about controlling strategic parts of the world - and making money. It is unchecked captialism, with little in the way of moral guidelines.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I'll never deny anyone the freedom to be wrong. Enjoy yourself.

I do enjoy myself thanks. You say you are a nuclear expert, but you seem to be a little of the mark in terms of the damaging effects of nuclear contamination. I believe in nuclear power, but also believe that radiological isotopes in the open-environment is bad. Forgive me if I don't want to take the word of someone who thinks wind-currents are going to keep the US biosystem free of contamination if the US clear-cut the mid-east with nukes - forgive me if I don't want to take your word for it when it comes to the damaging effects of U238.
 
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Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
Because these sects liked and tolerated each other before we showed up ... right..... NO WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGG. Just another little lie used by the cryin liberal base to complain about something to do with the president. They have been killing each other for generations. You just didn't care before.

Long as the animals are in Iraq. if we don't keep em there .. then they will come here. And you have made it so easy to get in, organize and kill our citizens that we gotta keep them busy in another country

So the president it right because there was sect tension? That is what makes it OK to envade a country for oil? That tension looks like it might be the thing that causes the US to lose the whole war anyway. Nice job Bush!

With the West validating dictatorships all the time, and to this day, how do they expect to allow democracy to grow naturally in a country? Well they don't care as long as the oil keeps flowing.

I didn't "make it easy" for them to come here - Bush did. And his administrations incompetence to enforce the US borders isn't a justification for war against a country that wasn't even part of the attack that is used as trump card for debate on everything the Bush adminsitration does.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

GySgt said:
Thanks for the links. Just FYI: The first link and the third link are the same document.

Great info...we need to understand terrorists in order to defeat them. It'll take some time to read and digest.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

NYStateofMind said:
Thanks for the links. Just FYI: The first link and the third link are the same document.

Great info...we need to understand terrorists in order to defeat them. It'll take some time to read and digest.

Oops. I just threw in a few quick links. Two I knew, the others I googled in. I read most of my study from books and essays.

There are some "do's" and "don'ts" for us to deal with today's threats.

At every level in military, the intellegincia, and government, we have to be able to identify the type of terrorists we face and know them as best we possibly can. Although tactics may be similar, stategies for dealing with "Practical" vs. "Apocalyptic" terrorists can differ widely. Practical terrorosts may have legitimate grievances that deserve consideration, although their methods cannot be tolerated. Apocalyptic terrorists, no matter their rhetoric seek our destruction and must be killed to the last man. The apt metaphor is cancer - we cannot hope for success if we only cut out part of the tumor. For the Apocalyptic Terrorist, evading our efforts can easily be turned into a public triumph. Our bloodiest success will create far fewer terrorists and sympathizers than our failures.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

python416 said:
Thanks for the links. I'll throw that into the queue of material I have and get back to you. It might take a while; I got a large queue.

The best place to learn about today's threats are in books and essays. Anywhere you can find PDF files on the Middle East, Islam, Radical Islam, and terrorism will help you understand the bigger picture of what our troops are facing.

I could send you a Power Point Presentation entitled "Countering Radical Islam" that we have put together that generally introduces cold historical and present facts and ideas if you like. We built the presentaion around a paper entitled: A Non-Combative Strategy to Counter Radical Islam.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

GySgt said:
The best place to learn about today's threats are in books and essays. Anywhere you can find PDF files on the Middle East, Islam, Radical Islam, and terrorism will help you understand the bigger picture of what our troops are facing.

I could send you a Power Point Presentation entitled "Countering Radical Islam" that we have put together that generally introduces cold historical and present facts and ideas if you like. We built the presentaion around a paper entitled: A Non-Combative Strategy to Counter Radical Islam.

Please send the presentation to python416 at gmail dot com - if possible. I would like to see it.

Thanks very much.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

python416 said:
Please send the presentation to python416 at gmail dot com - if possible. I would like to see it.

Thanks very much.

Done.

.........
 
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