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should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestinians?

Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
And your idea would be to what ????? ... Deal with a terrorist organization?.... The only thing they understand is death... they deal in it on a global scale. It's all they respect..

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
If you think I was only discussing Palestinians, I failed in my efforts at clarity. IMO, if it's necessary to use nuclear fire sterilize all territories outside of the United States to protect my family, then that's the acceptable course of action.


You think that they are sitting in a cave, jumping up and down on carpets turned toward Mecca chanting death to America? And they are coming for your kids right now? And the only way to protect yourself for the evil that lurks around every corner is to clear it all up with Nukes?

Then you are an shining example of the sucess the Neo-conservatives have had with their fear-based marketing efforts.

I think a good start at getting the many in middle east to stop hating America is to stop supporting corrupt governments in return for military alliences, weapons sales, and of course access to oil.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

What hateful and dehumanizing talk. And it comes with an endorsement of genocide.

What is one to think of folks who dehumanize their perceived enemies and call for them to be indiscriminately wiped from the earth?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
What? If Hamas can't get any more protection money from Israel, what's preventing them from going to Iran, Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc?

What will really matter is how the sponsor countries view the usefulness of Hamas' activities.


I don't think they will find any help from the African nations. Most of them are so poor they can't afford to give any substantial aid to the Palestinians. I said in my post lets see what the Saudis do now. All one can do is speculate but SA hasn't help much up to now what makes you think they will step up their efforts to help these people who they, racially, look down on? Maybe if the Palestinians make more militant moves toward Israel but if Hamas wants to survive that doesn't seem like such a good idea. Iran is the only one that can help but nowhere can Arabs or the Iranians equal the monies poured into palestine buy the West (mostly us) and the Israelis.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Simon W. Moon said:
What hateful and dehumanizing talk. And it comes with an endorsement of genocide.

What is one to think of folks who dehumanize their perceived enemies and call for them to be indiscriminately wiped from the earth?

"Perceived" enemy? You mean the goons that murdered stewardesses with plastic spoons so they could steal an airplane to fly into a building to murder thousands of others? That's only a "perception"?

There's a treatment for hoof and mouth disease. I'm just recommending we use it.
 
Inuyasha said:
I don't think they will find any help from the African nations. Most of them are so poor they can't afford to give any substantial aid to the Palestinians. I said in my post lets see what the Saudis do now. All one can do is speculate but SA hasn't help much up to now what makes you think they will step up their efforts to help these people who they, racially, look down on? Maybe if the Palestinians make more militant moves toward Israel but if Hamas wants to survive that doesn't seem like such a good idea. Iran is the only one that can help but nowhere can Arabs or the Iranians equal the monies poured into palestine buy the West (mostly us) and the Israelis.

There very easily could be some who would wish to spend the money to keep the region unstable and thus continue to tie down US forces. China, perhaps.
 
Hoot said:
Too bad Bush didn't ask himself this question before he started throwing civics texbooks out of the back of a humvee, thinking that's how easily democracy would sprout and grow.


It really doesn't matter does it? Easy or hard, they have to change and not just Iraq.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

GySgt said:
It's like I always say....."The Persian and Arab elite are willing to destroy and murder Israelis to the very last Palestinian." They use the Palistinian / Israeli conflict as a diversion and the rest of the world focuses on this as some sort of travesty forced upon the Muslim world (The Saudi Arabs look down upon Palistinian Arabs). In the mean time, they abuse and oppress their people (at the fault of America, of course) into terrorism. The Muslim world is a mess. In the Middle East, specifically, the heavens are falling and the earth is wracked with failure. This region is full of celebrated and honored bigotry and our "Global Left" scours desperately for ways to make them happy. How can we make a civilization that can't even get along amongst themselves to get along with the "infidels" and "Zions?"


Well said....
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
There very easily could be some who would wish to spend the money to keep the region unstable and thus continue to tie down US forces. China, perhaps.

It's possible but weighed against the benefits China reaps from doing business with the US it is distant. When it comes to business and money the Chinese are far more sophisticated and advanced than the Muslim nations. I don't believe they would get involved here. But they do have both the money and the means.
 
Inuyasha said:
It's possible but weighed against the benefits China reaps from doing business with the US it is distant. When it comes to business and money the Chinese are far more sophisticated and advanced than the Muslim nations. I don't believe they would get involved here. But they do have both the money and the means.

I tossed China out as a best guess. Nor did I say the support would be open, that would be foolish.

Russia would find it advantageous to stir up trouble in that region. They still have imperial goals. Wrecking the Middle Eastern oil system would lead to greater demand for their own oil resources, wouldn't be the first time a competitor used rough means to eliminate a rival. And Russia wouldn't want the US to get too far ahead of them.

France. Lovely, cowardly, dirty and corrupt France. Of all the snakes in the world, the Frogs already have a history of falseness and double dealing when it comes to the Middle East. France's economy is collapsing, they have a serious Islamic infection. Why put this past them?

Germany. A land that fathered National Socialism should never be trusted in it's dealings around the world. Especially not when anti-American propaganda wins them elections.

That's three. If Cuba had the money, Castro would spend it. Venezuela has the money, and I don't have a reason to trust them. Mexico might want to have US troops occupied elsewhere while they continue their decades long policy of stealth invasion north.

Lots of countries, lots of reasons.
 
It's not an outcome that we wanted, but we basically sat back and allowed it to happen. We could have taken some steps to prevent it, but we chose not to. We could have insisted that Abbas not allow Hamas to participate in the elections until/unless they changed their violent platform. We could have insisted that the elections be postponed until we could do more to support Abbas. We did neither. Now we are in the unfortunate position of saying that you can't hold a bullet and a ballot at the same time.....when that is EXACTLY what WE allowed to happen. Our government managed the pre-election situation poorly.....we deserve failing grades for neglecting to pay attention.

It's very simplistic to say that the Palestinians voted for Hamas because they support terrorism. It's like saying that everyone who voted for Bush is pro-life....that is only part of the platform, and people vote depending on what part of the platform is most important to them. The Palestinians had two choices in this election.....both were poor. Fatah is corrupt and was doing nothing to help the common Palestinian with the money that they were receiving. Many Palestinians voted for Hamas because, while they are a terrorist organization, they have provided social services to Palestinians and have done far more to help them than Fatah. The Hamas candidates campaigned on local issues, not their policy regarding Israel. We may not like the result, but they went about it intelligently.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that many of the Israeli government officials, as well as the officials in Fatah that ran the PA prior to the election, were also terrorists at one time. When terrorists are put in a position where they have to govern, it becomes very difficult to continue to be terrorists. It's very easy to sit and complain and say you want to destroy Israel when you are not in power. It's much harder when you actually have the power to take action on your supposed desires. I suspect that having to actually govern will temper Hamas.

There could be a silver lining to this. Winning this election may actually neutralize a violent terrorist organization. A lot depends on how everyone handles the situation. So far, we seem to be walking the tightrope pretty well. Wait and see what happens.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
"Perceived" enemy? You mean the goons that murdered stewardesses with plastic spoons so they could steal an airplane to fly into a building to murder thousands of others? That's only a "perception"?
There's a treatment for hoof and mouth disease. I'm just recommending we use it.
Mostly, I was talking about he other 99.9%+ of the folks who would end up dead from the recommended measures.
 
Let me guess:
1. Most Arab countries (may be with exclusion of ones controlled by US) will recognize Hamas.
2. Brutal and bloody dictatorships and regimes around the globe will recognize Hamas.
3. Certain countries will use it as card for their games and accordingly will be changing their recognition.
Now we have pretty much a majority of voices.
European governments scared to cold shiver by recent peaceful protests against their newspapers will be issuing statements, declarations and delegations for peace.
This leaves US where it is now – nobody likes US and we have to do something about it.

It is not a prediction, but a quick attempt to look at the facts. Good people, you are people with good hearts, but don’t look in your hearts when you have to deal with realities.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

python416 said:
You think that they are sitting in a cave, jumping up and down on carpets turned toward Mecca chanting death to America? And they are coming for your kids right now? And the only way to protect yourself for the evil that lurks around every corner is to clear it all up with Nukes?

Then you are an shining example of the sucess the Neo-conservatives have had with their fear-based marketing efforts.

I think a good start at getting the many in middle east to stop hating America is to stop supporting corrupt governments in return for military alliences, weapons sales, and of course access to oil.


First off I don't recall saying we should nuke anyone......

You seem to be the shining example of a common appeasing liberal.
Weaken weaken weaken... complain

Wow.....so when we get off the oil exactly how do we handle an economy that would be completely destroyed, Massive unemployment, rioting... Because that is what happens if we just quite oil. Since this is not an option we need to secure this product. And we need to make sure our allies have the abillity to fight there enemies. And are willing to help us fight ours.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
If there to stupid to not know why there being punished then there are a lot more problems then just hammas. They know why there being punished. They know exactly who and what they elected to run there country. PArt of being free is living with your decisions

NO, they do not, “know why there being punished.” The world has given them mixed signals.


“Dear Sheikh Yassin,
We are writing to you regarding continued attacks against civilians for which the Islamic Resistance Movement (harakat al-muqawama al-islamiyya, Hamas) has claimed responsibility. We are aware of remarks by you and by other leading Hamas figures, including Dr. Abd al-Aziz al-Rantissi and Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, endorsing such attacks.”
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/hamasltr080602.htm

“Strongly condemns the continuing grave violations of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, in particular the tragic assassination of Sheikh Ahmad Yassin on 22 March 2004, in contravention of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949;”
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/22f431edb91c6f548525678a0051be1d/67606dfc79a1964e85256e62005bcd57!OpenDocument

“The Secretary-General strongly condemns Israel’s assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, which resulted in the deaths of eight others. He is concerned that such an action would lead to further bloodshed and death and acts of revenge and retaliation. He reiterates that extrajudicial killings are against international law and calls on the Government of Israel to immediately end this practice. The only way to halt an escalation in the violence is for the parties to work towards a viable negotiating process aimed at a just, lasting and comprehensive settlement.”
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sgsm9210.doc.htm
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

DivineComedy said:
NO, they do not, “know why there being punished.” The world has given them mixed signals.


“Dear Sheikh Yassin,
We are writing to you regarding continued attacks against civilians for which the Islamic Resistance Movement (harakat al-muqawama al-islamiyya, Hamas) has claimed responsibility. We are aware of remarks by you and by other leading Hamas figures, including Dr. Abd al-Aziz al-Rantissi and Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, endorsing such attacks.”
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/hamasltr080602.htm

“Strongly condemns the continuing grave violations of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, in particular the tragic assassination of Sheikh Ahmad Yassin on 22 March 2004, in contravention of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949;”
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/22f431edb91c6f548525678a0051be1d/67606dfc79a1964e85256e62005bcd57!OpenDocument

“The Secretary-General strongly condemns Israel’s assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, which resulted in the deaths of eight others. He is concerned that such an action would lead to further bloodshed and death and acts of revenge and retaliation. He reiterates that extrajudicial killings are against international law and calls on the Government of Israel to immediately end this practice. The only way to halt an escalation in the violence is for the parties to work towards a viable negotiating process aimed at a just, lasting and comprehensive settlement.”
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sgsm9210.doc.htm

The people that voted knew for whom and what they voted for. The entire globe knows what they voted for. This is the statement they want to make. Then they will have to live with there decisions. If you elect a terrorist organization to run your country, then you lose support and backing. Thats the way it is and thats the way it should be.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Simon W. Moon said:
Mostly, I was talking about he other 99.9%+ of the folks who would end up dead from the recommended measures.

Yeah, it's pretty sad that those people never spoke up and took action against the animals they let speak for them. I won't miss them.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
First off I don't recall saying we should nuke anyone......

You seem to be the shining example of a common appeasing liberal.
Weaken weaken weaken... complain

Wow.....so when we get off the oil exactly how do we handle an economy that would be completely destroyed, Massive unemployment, rioting... Because that is what happens if we just quite oil. Since this is not an option we need to secure this product. And we need to make sure our allies have the abillity to fight there enemies. And are willing to help us fight ours.

You said "It would definetly quite the area down to a low hum...." in response to Scaredcrow Akhbar's suggestion that we Nuke the mid-east.



Weaken, Weaken, Weaken?! I am weak because I don't by into the fear marketing that has everyone willing to sell out their national values for the illusion of security?

Does my questioning of the need to move the country on a path divergent from that of the founders make me weak, or imply that people like me are weakening the country? Please.

The administration has scared most of the country into doing anything for illusion of security, but it is only an illusion. The illusion of protection doesn't make you strong; it makes you fooled.




Does US need for mid-east oil imply that Scaredcrow's suggestion of "Nuclear fire" is valid? There are solutions to lessing the dependancy on oil, but the adminstration tosses those ideas aside like they were anti-Christian.

On September 12th, 2001, the largest step to "get off oil" could have been taken by asking the American public to work towards cutting ties with Saudi Arabia, increasing fuel standards for vehicles, car pooling, increase realistic awareness of nuclear fission and fusion reactions to generate power, etc. The American public and most of the world would have been behind it. Hell, if JFK can get a man on the moon in a decade in the 60's, GWB could have gotten the US off mid-east oil by 2010. But with all the ties to midest oil, the country's true national interests were sold out for administration cronism to the oil companies and to the war companies required to secure oil.

If you think the American economy can't survive reducing the need for oil, then you don't have enough faith in capitalism and innovation, and are not well versed in economics or science.





And if you think killing at least 30,000 Iraqi civilians because mistakes in government operations let 19 pissed off radicals kill 3,000 innocents - then you are devaluing human life in a way that is disgraceful in a country that repeatedly asserts its basis in equality.
 
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Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yeah, it's pretty sad that those people never spoke up and took action against the animals they let speak for them. I won't miss them.
You seem to share the same repugnant attitude toward human life as the violent Islamist jihadis. Would that make you an "animal" just like them?
 
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Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

python416 said:
Does US need for mid-east oil imply that Scaredcrow's suggestion of "Nuclear fire" is valid? There are solutions to lessing the dependancy on oil, but the adminstration tosses those ideas aside like they were anti-Christian.

Who said anything about oil? We should kill them because their a threat, a disease, a pestilent fly carrying sleeping sickness or malaria.

I never said a word about oil in relation to the issue of global terrorism.


python416 said:
On September 12th, 2001, the largest step to "get off oil" could have been taken,

Oh? Like what? I can take it as a fact that you don't have a clue about energy issues.

python416 said:
If you think the American economy can't survive reducing the need for oil, then you don't have enough faith in capitalism and innovation, and are not well versed in economics or science.

I'm better versed than you, and one thing's a fact: cold turkey ain't the way to change our national energy infrastructure.




python416 said:
And if you think killing at least 30,000 Iraqi civilians because mistakes in government operations let 19 pissed off radicals kill 3,000 innocents - then you are devaluing human life in a way that is disgraceful in a country that repeatedly asserts its basis in equality.

30 of them for 3 of ours sounds like a **** poor trade, we need to kill 299970 more.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Simon W. Moon said:
You seem to share the same repugnant attitude toward human life as the violent Islamist jihadis. Would that make you an "animal" just like them?

No. I'm swatting flies. They are flies.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Who said anything about oil? We should kill them because their a threat, a disease, a pestilent fly carrying sleeping sickness or malaria.

I never said a word about oil in relation to the issue of global terrorism.

Oh? Like what? I can take it as a fact that you don't have a clue about energy issues.

I'm better versed than you, and one thing's a fact: cold turkey ain't the way to change our national energy infrastructure.

30 of them for 3 of ours sounds like a **** poor trade, we need to kill 299970 more.

They are a threat because of what is done to secure oil and military operations, not because they have brown skin.

The fact that you never said a word about oil in relation to global terrorism shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

Who said anything about cold-turkey? I said increasing fuel standards for vehicles, car pooling, increase realistic awareness of nuclear fission and fusion reactions to generate power, etc. (in an edit that you may not have seen) - what about those non-cold-turkey ideas?

Believe me, I have lots of clues about energy, as a scientist, and my study of economics dates far into the past as well. If you want to get into a ******* contest of scientific knowledge or economic theories, please let me know.




"30 of them for 3 of ours sounds like a **** poor trade, we need to kill 299970 more." ???

You know, you hear elected politicans bring up references to Hitler when talking about opponents, and you think they let their emotions get the best of them and said something stupid.

Then you read some of the comments that you have made in this thread, and think that it might be time to bust out a Hitler comparison.

Earlier you said that you want to nuke the whole mid-east, and now you refer to "them" as a disease. I hope I am on the other end of the scale from your beliefs.

And I hope those people who don't believe in genocide, but still support your position on the war, sit back and think about what kind of company they are keeping: so scared, fooled into thinking that mass murder is the way to go, thinking that genocide is okay because these people are a disease.

The Internet is probably the only place were you can speek these twisted thoughts out loud without getting your butt kicked - well except for a KKK or Neo-Nazi meeting.
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

python416 said:
You said "It would definetly quite the area down to a low hum...." in response to Scaredcrow Akhbar's suggestion that we Nuke the mid-east.

I was being sarcastic... And stating a simple fact... never said that I wanted to nuke them


python416 said:
Weaken, Weaken, Weaken?! I am weak because I don't by into the fear marketing that has everyone willing to sell out their national values for the illusion of security?

What national values are you talking about?
python416 said:
Does my questioning of the need to move the country on a path divergent from that of the founders make me weak, or imply that people like me are weakening the country? Please.

your lack of concern over the security of the country would be whats weakening it. There is a faction out there that wants to kill anyone that does not agree with them. We have a border and security that is poris to say the least. we have those within our borders that would love to do harm to us. Do you feel any of these statements are untrue?
python416 said:
The administration has scared most of the country into doing anything for illusion of security, but it is only an illusion. The illusion of protection doesn't make you strong; it makes you fooled.


SO i was fooled into thinking we have security concerns? Attacks on our own soil and our interests and people overseas seem to bear out those concerns
python416 said:
Does US need for mid-east oil imply that Scaredcrow's suggestion of "Nuclear fire" is valid? There are solutions to lessing the dependancy on oil, but the adminstration tosses those ideas aside like they were anti-Christian.

I don't want to nuke the ME. I see no usefull purpose in it.
python416 said:
On September 12th, 2001, the largest step to "get off oil" could have been taken by asking the American public to work towards cutting ties with Saudi Arabia, increasing fuel standards for vehicles, car pooling, increase realistic awareness of nuclear fission and fusion reactions to generate power, etc. The American public and most of the world would have been behind it. Hell, if JFK can get a man on the moon in a decade in the 60's, GWB could have gotten the US off mid-east oil by 2010. But with all the ties to midest oil, the country's true national interests were sold out for administration cronism to the oil companies and to the war companies required to secure oil.



If you think the American economy can't survive reducing the need for oil, then you don't have enough faith in capitalism and innovation, and are not well versed in economics or science.

Our industries are pretty tied into petrolium. Ten years to break from oil would cause a catastrophy IMO. I am assuming your an econims and science guru from your above statement. Your going to flush a multi billion dollar industry and millions of jobs down the toilet and the economy will just hum along. ....OK .. you got me.... I'm not an econmist so maybe you know something I don't


python416 said:
And if you think killing at least 30,000 Iraqi civilians because mistakes in government operations let 19 pissed off radicals kill 3,000 innocents - then you are devaluing human life in a way that is disgraceful in a country that repeatedly asserts its basis in equality.

And if you think it was only 19 people then you're a fool on a fools errand. There was a whole lot more then 19 people involved in this attack.

Multiple attacks on the wtc. Atacks on warships and military basis and embassies.. this isn't a shot in the dark, these are acts of war
 
Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
I was being sarcastic... And stating a simple fact... never said that I wanted to nuke them

Thank you for clearing that up. I hope Scaredcrow is being sarcastic, but I doubt it.

Calm2Chaos said:
What national values are you talking about?

Those detailed in the 1st and 4th amendments for starters.

Calm2Chaos said:
your lack of concern over the security of the country would be whats weakening it. There is a faction out there that wants to kill anyone that does not agree with them. We have a border and security that is poris to say the least. we have those within our borders that would love to do harm to us. Do you feel any of these statements are untrue?

Those are true statements, but the faction that wants to kill you doesn't want to do it because you don't agree with them - they are being radicalized by people twisting the perception of what American foreign policy has done to them. If the US stopped empowering dictators, occuping lands, selling weapons to corrupt governments, and making deals with bad people for oil access, then potential for the mass population to be radicalized would diminish. Instead, you have a policy that only increases the potential for radicalization.

Calm2Chaos said:
SO i was fooled into thinking we have security concerns? Attacks on our own soil and our interests and people overseas seem to bear out those concerns

First, the American people are being fooled that by allowing the executive branch to collect more power, disable the check and balances so thoughtfully placed into this wonderful system, and do things like monitor complete streams of communication in voliation of the constituional rights of its citizens - all in the name of "homeland security" that can't even bring water to its own citizens during a hurricane, or tell for itself that contracting out border control to a country that aided the very 19 people we are talking about - is a stupid idea!

[sorry about the run-on sentence]

Calm2Chaos said:
I don't want to nuke the ME. I see no usefull purpose in it.

What do you think about Scaredcrow's wanting to do it? What do you think about sharing the same side of the debate table with someone who wants to nuke the disease clean?

Calm2Chaos said:
Our industries are pretty tied into petrolium. Ten years to break from oil would cause a catastrophy IMO. I am assuming your an econims and science guru from your above statement. Your going to flush a multi billion dollar industry and millions of jobs down the toilet and the economy will just hum along. ....OK .. you got me.... I'm not an econmist so maybe you know something I don't

Yes they are tied to petro. And economic theory would suggest that in a freemarket economy with little government regulation, and low government funding of innovation, they will continue to be tied to petro until another alternative comes into play that has an equal or lessor perceived cost from the consumer. How do you get there?

1) invest more in alternative research (already being done)
2) artifically and slowly, increase the cost of oil based prodcuts in the market, and items that consume such produces (taxation)
3) artifically and more rapidly, decrease the cost of lower-than-normal-oil-usage prodcuts in the market (tax breaks)

Items 2 and 3 have been purposely avoided in this administrations tenure, because it reduces the economic strength of those who hold oil assets, and those who make devices that are used to secure those assets (defence companies).

Hell, the US still has houses heated on heating oil! That is the dirtyest and wasteful method I could think of. The whole refining industry has been designed to amplify uncertainity and market ripples, because in the today's global oil market, the more unstable it is, the more money the oil companies make.

How about having a government that creates policy to make the country safer, cleaner, and more technologically competitve for the day when oil runs out?

(instead of doing the opposite to keep the oil companies and the defence contractors required to maintain access to oil for those oil companies as rich as possible)

Calm2Chaos said:
And if you think it was only 19 people then you're a fool on a fools errand. There was a whole lot more then 19 people involved in this attack.

Multiple attacks on the wtc. Atacks on warships and military basis and embassies.. this isn't a shot in the dark, these are acts of war

Good point. But the war is against those who push idea that America is evil. And when the execution of the war helps that idea persist and grow - all the technology in the world isn't going to allow the US to win.

The US needs new leadership and a new plan if it is going to win the "war". GWB could still do it, but evidence to date shows that he is gonna "stay the course" cause that is what people like about him.

I'd settle for just a little congressional oversight - just a taste. Cause right now it looks like the US is one terrorist attack away from having elections cancelled and the constituion being through out the window.
 
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Re: should the international comunity Recogniz a governement chosen by the palestini

Calm2Chaos said:
The people that voted knew for whom and what they voted for. The entire globe knows what they voted for. This is the statement they want to make. Then they will have to live with there decisions. If you elect a terrorist organization to run your country, then you lose support and backing. Thats the way it is and thats the way it should be.

IMO This is no different from what we did in the last election. We voted for what we felt would be the best government for us and the rest of the world be damned. We voted in for a second term, a government that had, during its first term, alienated many of our former allies. We voted for what we wanted not what the rest of the world wanted. We knew from the first term what kind of administration we voted in. We defiantly stated to the rest of the world that if they didn't like it that was too bad and we would go it alone if need be. The second term of the Bush administration surprisingly turned around and made a great effort to recoup what they had lost during the first four years. Who is to say with any certainty that Hamas will not make a similar move? No one can live isolated from the rest of the world community today. I say let's wait and see if they come to their senses. However we need to cut off the monies we are sending them. That is part of the price they will have to pay for their defiance. If Hamas tries to come to the table with the West and broker a deal that will be good for us and good for them, I will have to respect their efforts. If they simply, as the former government did, try to appease us then I cannot give them my trust. Appeasement is a weakness and a nation that is weak in that manner is as dangerous as one that stands up to you. In any event no one can prodict the future (if there is anyone here who can, please give me the next winning numbers for the powerball) so we will just have to wait and see.
 
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