Should the free world put together a military force to invade Iran?

[ddoyle00]

Aside from our boomers (which become the 7th largest nuclear power when they leave port) and the difference between fusion and fission, the main topic is should the "free world" put together a task force to destroy Irans nuclear capability?

First of all, I know its not just the "free world" who has a stake in whether or not Iran is bombed. Obviously, it will be the U.S. and Israel along with many Middle Eastern countries who view Iran as more than a bit unstable. These include Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and others.

"According to (then undersecretary for arms control and international security, now U.S. ambassador to the UN) John Bolton's testimony to the House of Representatives (June 24, 2004), "We believe Iran has a covert program to develop and stockpile chemical weapons," and on Iran's ballistic missiles, "Iran continues its extensive efforts to develop the means to deliver weapons of mass destruction," and "The 1,300-km range Shahab-3 missile is a direct threat to Israel, Turkey, U.S. forces in the region, and U.S. friends and allies."

This is America's comment about involvement:

"On May 6, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives passed Resolution 398 in a 376-3 vote, calling on the U.S. government "to use all appropriate means to deter, dissuade, and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons." If a similar resolution passes the Senate, it will give President Bush or any future administration the ability to launch a preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities whenever this is deemed necessary."

Now here is an example of how Israel thinks:

"On June 7, 1981, in a surprise air attack the Israeli Air Force using F-15 and F-16 fighter jets destroyed the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor located 30 kilometers South of Baghdad"

It is my opinoin and that of American Intelligence units that Iran will not possess nuclear bombs nor will they have weapons grade plutonium or uranium. We will see soon next year when the first shipment is due to arrive from Russia by boat.

oh yeah, you guys like links.

www.cns.miis.edu

 

[Kelzie]

Aside from our boomers (which become the 7th largest nuclear power when they leave port) and the difference between fusion and fission, the main topic is should the "free world" put together a task force to destroy Irans nuclear capability?

First of all, I know its not just the "free world" who has a stake in whether or not Iran is bombed. Obviously, it will be the U.S. and Israel along with many Middle Eastern countries who view Iran as more than a bit unstable. These include Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and others.

"According to (then undersecretary for arms control and international security, now U.S. ambassador to the UN) John Bolton's testimony to the House of Representatives (June 24, 2004), "We believe Iran has a covert program to develop and stockpile chemical weapons," and on Iran's ballistic missiles, "Iran continues its extensive efforts to develop the means to deliver weapons of mass destruction," and "The 1,300-km range Shahab-3 missile is a direct threat to Israel, Turkey, U.S. forces in the region, and U.S. friends and allies."

This is America's comment about involvement:

"On May 6, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives passed Resolution 398 in a 376-3 vote, calling on the U.S. government "to use all appropriate means to deter, dissuade, and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons." If a similar resolution passes the Senate, it will give President Bush or any future administration the ability to launch a preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities whenever this is deemed necessary."

Now here is an example of how Israel thinks:

"On June 7, 1981, in a surprise air attack the Israeli Air Force using F-15 and F-16 fighter jets destroyed the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor located 30 kilometers South of Baghdad"

It is my opinoin and that of American Intelligence units that Iran will not possess nuclear bombs nor will they have weapons grade plutonium or uranium. We will see soon next year when the first shipment is due to arrive from Russia by boat.

oh yeah, you guys like links.

www.cns.miis.edu

It...looks like you share my opinion...I think anyway. Give them they chance to develop peacefully. By all accounts, they can't develop nuclear weapons for several years anyway. If it is found otherwise...it needs to be dealt with. The manner is better left up to the military.

 

[ddoyle00]

Kelzie, we disagree this time. Iran has been shown to have 25 strategically placed nuclear facilities and is awaiting nuclear fuel which will arrive early next year from Russia. When I say strategically, I mean placed near schools, hospitals, nursing homes. Iran is betting on the outrage of the Musilm community when their facilities are targeted and innocents killed. What they are not counting on is that most Muslim countries dont want them with that ability. Its not really a matter of if, it a matter of when the attack happens and my how many.

 

[SKILMATIC]

You only know what you misread, and misquoted, when it comes to nuclear weapons. You did not win anything, except the glory of labeling yourself as one who does not check his few facts before he repeats them incorrectly.

And can you please tell me in your vast intelligence in these matters how I misread and misquoted facts? I unlike all of you in this ofrum actually work in these fields and I train in these fields. I also work the the professionals you constantly like to quote. I am simply laying out the facts for you and its your option whether you want to believe them or not. Again ask yourself this question. Why would a professionalengineer in the field of missle defense ever say that we dont need anymore money from the gov becasue we are already heavily gaurded and protected? Its all about money people when you realize this it will become apparent to you. The Russian economy has been floundering and so is their military and their defense. Their northern fleet is crippled all over due to shortages in maintanence and repairs.

Again you contsantly misquote and misread every single one of my posts. I never said I was more intelligent when it comes to president bush or that I know more about him when it comes to foreign affairs. I specifically said I know more than Bush when it comes to weapons systems, ordinance, and aeronautical engineering. And becasue I know more than he does in these fields I would certainly know more than he does in what it takes to deliver retaliations and any strikes when it comes to ordinance of any kind. Not to mention my current job is a logistics manager for a nation wide company called Velocity Express. And in warfare incase you didnt know logistics is the crucial part of any warfare. In the navy I was a weapons ordinance logistics specialist. My training in that rate I had to know every single different ordinance and its name, I had to know which each one does and how they differ, I had to know the range and destructability of each one, I had to know the ECU systems of each one and how to program them prior to load on aircraft, I also had to learn how to load them on the aircraft, the load capacity of each aircraft, and of course the weight and dimensions of each ordinance, and this is including any form of nuclear ordinance. I am just curious to know how many years you have had to dealt with ordinance in your life?

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie, we disagree this time. Iran has been shown to have 25 strategically placed nuclear facilities and is awaiting nuclear fuel which will arrive early next year from Russia. When I say strategically, I mean placed near schools, hospitals, nursing homes. Iran is betting on the outrage of the Musilm community when their facilities are targeted and innocents killed. What they are not counting on is that most Muslim countries dont want them with that ability. Its not really a matter of if, it a matter of when the attack happens and my how many.

Damn. Sorry to misread you. I don't think we can act until we have proof of wrongdoing this time. Proof of course that they are attempting to build a nuclear bomb. I don't think the Muslim community in the Middle East would look very well on us bombing nuclear plants that later turned out to be entirely for energy, regardless of if they want Iran to have the bomb or not.

 

[UtahBill]

I unlike all of you in this ofrum actually work in these fields and I train in these fields. I also work the the professionals you constantly like to quote. .

In the navy I was a weapons ordinance logistics specialist. My training in that rate I had to know every single different ordinance and its name, I had to know which each one does and how they differ, I had to know the range and destructability of each one, I had to know the ECU systems of each one and how to program them prior to load on aircraft, I also had to learn how to load them on the aircraft, the load capacity of each aircraft, and of course the weight and dimensions of each ordinance, and this is including any form of nuclear ordinance. I am just curious to know how many years you have had to dealt with ordinance in your life?

Then how could you get it so wrong? And don't assume you are the only former navy person here with a technical background. I was a nuke operator on a fast attack sub. I also worked in nuclear research facilities as a civilian.
My next door neighbor, a very interesting man, was invoved in the early years of nuclear weaponry as a millitary officer. And again, what the hell do emitter diodes have to do with it? Do you know what a diode is? I do....

 

[SKILMATIC]

Damn. Sorry to misread you. I don't think we can act until we have proof of wrongdoing this time. Proof of course that they are attempting to build a nuclear bomb. I don't think the Muslim community in the Middle East would look very well on us bombing nuclear plants that later turned out to be entirely for energy, regardless of if they want Iran to have the bomb or not.

For a closer look as Irans nuclear facilities and capabilites I encourage you to check out AEOI.

A matter of fact let me give you this site that me and my fellow retarded engineers use to learn about Irans nuclear intentions.

http://www.parstimes.com/INR.html

Its a great site and it will give you more insight in this area of discussion. I would just give it to you in my own words but my words are never good enough for you.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Then how could you get it so wrong? And don't assume you are the only former navy person here with a technical background. I was a nuke operator on a fast attack sub. I also worked in nuclear research facilities as a civilian.
My next door neighbor, a very interesting man, was invoved in the early years of nuclear weaponry as a millitary officer. And again, what the hell do emitter diodes have to do with it? Do you know what a diode is? I do....

Again, you never answered me what did I get soo wrong?

 

[UtahBill]

Again, you never answered me what did I get soo wrong?

the diode question, answer that one....
IMHO, like I said earlier, let them build it, then dare them to use it outside of a defensive context.

 

[SKILMATIC]

the diode question, answer that one....
IMHO, like I said earlier, let them build it, then dare them to use it outside of a defensive context.

And again, I already answered your question in regards to that post. Please read it then let me know. Also I agree with your opinion. :2wave:

 

[UtahBill]

And again, I already answered your question in regards to that post. Please read it then let me know. Also I agree with your opinion. :2wave:

You did, where? I missed it. Are you sure you did? positive?

 

[SKILMATIC]

You did, where? I missed it. Are you sure you did? positive?

Yes I swear on my grave I already did. Did you look back at where you made that comment? I think its 2 pages later than that.

 

[ddoyle00]

I think we can all agree that as of right now, Iran does not have nuclear weapons. What we dont agree on is what we should when they get close to accomplishing this task. They are already very close and I posted that they are awaiting their shipment of nuclear fuel from Russia which will arrive early 2006. My source for this are released notes from John Bolton in an address to the U.N.
The above data are facts. I think we can add that nobody in the world trusts Iran with nukes. What is up for dispute is what the world should do about it. If we wait too long to decide, Israel will make the first move and I have read two different scenarios of what will happen if they do. Israel has already shown their willingness to make a pre-emptive strike when they bombed Iraq. Israel has shown (almost on a daily basis) that a few civilian causelties will not deter them from their goal. Watch CNN when they retaliate with some attack gunships or dismounted troops with tanks.

 

[robin]

I honestly believe the only way to assure there is peace in the middle east is to keep countries like Iran and Syria disarmed.What do you folks think?

THE USA started a war in the M East over two years ago. Do you think perhaps it is they that should be dissarmed instead ?
I mean how did you feel when the Soviets all but took over Cuba ?
The moment any slightly left wing president was elected on your doorstep in South or central America, the CIA had them overthrown & replaced by fascist dictators.... in the name of the free world :shock:
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

So how do you think the Iranians & Syrians feel with you on their doorstep ?

 

[ddoyle00]

Robin, you should change your screen name to Mushroom because it seems like you live in a cave and your fed crap all day. What a ridiculous and ignorant post. I have made it through 64 posts without saying anything derogative, but yours pushed me over the edge.

The U.S. and a few dozen other countries went to war against Iraq because Hussein was an evil and despotic ruler who invaded Saudi Arabia and put the world oil supply at risk.

The Soviets did not take over Cuba. They were allowed to set up operations which included short range nuclear missles. The Cubans were seduced by the promises of Russia and communism.

As for the CIA overthrowing any South American or any Latin American President, please. Give me one example. Castro is still alive, for gods sake.

 

[SKILMATIC]

I think we can all agree that as of right now, Iran does not have nuclear weapons. What we dont agree on is what we should when they get close to accomplishing this task. They are already very close and I posted that they are awaiting their shipment of nuclear fuel from Russia which will arrive early 2006. My source for this are released notes from John Bolton in an address to the U.N.
The above data are facts. I think we can add that nobody in the world trusts Iran with nukes. What is up for dispute is what the world should do about it. If we wait too long to decide, Israel will make the first move and I have read two different scenarios of what will happen if they do. Israel has already shown their willingness to make a pre-emptive strike when they bombed Iraq. Israel has shown (almost on a daily basis) that a few civilian causelties will not deter them from their goal. Watch CNN when they retaliate with some attack gunships or dismounted troops with tanks.

Robin, you should change your screen name to Mushroom because it seems like you live in a cave and your fed crap all day. What a ridiculous and ignorant post. I have made it through 64 posts without saying anything derogative, but yours pushed me over the edge.

The U.S. and a few dozen other countries went to war against Iraq because Hussein was an evil and despotic ruler who invaded Saudi Arabia and put the world oil supply at risk.

The Soviets did not take over Cuba. They were allowed to set up operations which included short range nuclear missles. The Cubans were seduced by the promises of Russia and communism.

As for the CIA overthrowing any South American or any Latin American President, please. Give me one example. Castro is still alive, for gods sake.

Again these 2 posts are just brilliant. I love you. :lol: Your stay here will be very abliged. I thank you for your intelligence

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Robin, you should change your screen name to Mushroom because it seems like you live in a cave and your fed crap all day. What a ridiculous and ignorant post. I have made it through 64 posts without saying anything derogative, but yours pushed me over the edge.

The U.S. and a few dozen other countries went to war against Iraq because Hussein was an evil and despotic ruler who invaded Saudi Arabia and put the world oil supply at risk.

The Soviets did not take over Cuba. They were allowed to set up operations which included short range nuclear missles. The Cubans were seduced by the promises of Russia and communism.

As for the CIA overthrowing any South American or any Latin American President, please. Give me one example. Castro is still alive, for gods sake.

Oh we've done it ie supplying the contras against the sandinistas but it was during the cold war under the policy of roll back to fight the dominoe effect of communism we decided that we would draw a line in the sand and face down communist expansion wherever we found it (the lesser of two evils as it were) and for this we need not apologize especially due to the fact that the policy now after the cold war is to confront tyrants and despots the world over.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Oh we've done it ie supplying the contras against the sandinistas but it was during the cold war under the policy of roll back to fight the dominoe effect of communism we decided that we would draw a line in the sand and face down communist expansion wherever we found it (the lesser of two evils as it were) and for this we need not apologize especially due to the fact that the policy now after the cold war is to confront tyrants and despots the world over.

We actually dont go in there with the goal of removing regimes but with the goal to work with the towns people in the effort to remove the regimes. If it was our goal to remove the regime then we would just do so like in Iraq. However, we act as a deterrent by aiding the towns people and the locals to take their community back. We aid them by supplying them adequate training and resources such as arms and other supplies. IN South America we have sent many CIA operatives to aid in the effort of extrapulating the drug problem but you have to remember that this is what drives their economy. So at the same time it is dufficult in rallying support. I am not too knowledgeable in this realm of expertise but I do know a little about the affairs down in S america.

 

[robin]

The U.S. and a few dozen other countries went to war against Iraq because Hussein was an evil and despotic ruler who invaded Saudi Arabia and put the world oil supply at risk.

When did he invade Suidi then ?

The Soviets did not take over Cuba. They were allowed to set up operations which included short range nuclear missles. The Cubans were seduced by the promises of Russia and communism.

I said "they all but took over"

As for the CIA overthrowing any South American or any Latin American President, please. Give me one example. Castro is still alive, for gods sake.

Was it too difficult for you to click on the link ?
Try again.... http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html
just roll your mouse pointer over the link then press your right index finger onto the left mouse button. You manage somehow I'm sure.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

When did he invade Suidi then ?


I said "they all but took over"

Was it too difficult for you to click on the link ?
Try again.... http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html
just roll your mouse pointer over the link then press your right index finger onto the left mouse button. You manage somehow I'm sure.

That sights filled with conspiratorial bullshit, nice try though.

 

[SKILMATIC]

When did he invade Suidi then ?


I said "they all but took over"

Was it too difficult for you to click on the link ?
Try again.... http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html
just roll your mouse pointer over the link then press your right index finger onto the left mouse button. You manage somehow I'm sure.

Umm... the conspiracy theory portion of this forum is actually down towards the bottom. Just thought that would help you.

 

[ddoyle00]

"Umm... the conspiracy theory portion of this forum is actually down towards the bottom"-Exactly.

Robin, if you would move out of your mom's basement and take off that tinfoil helmet you are wearing, you will realize all that money you spend on conspiracey magazines was wasted. Instead, save up all your paper route money and see if someone recorded the last 15 years of CNN and buy the tapes from them.

 

[UtahBill]

The only way to have peace in the middle east is to remove all the arabs.
It would seem easier to remove the Israelis, but that would just remove the nearest target of hate for the arabs. Then the arabs would just fight each other. That may be the ticket, we can give one of our lesser important states to Israel, and they can all leave the middle east. Trouble is, they are too attached to the concept of a "holy land", and the same land is holy to the arabs. I don't get the concept of a holy land, where is it in the bible that God said to fight over dirt?
stupid, stupid, stupid.....

 

[SKILMATIC]

"Umm... the conspiracy theory portion of this forum is actually down towards the bottom"-Exactly.

Robin, if you would move out of your mom's basement and take off that tinfoil helmet you are wearing, you will realize all that money you spend on conspiracey magazines was wasted. Instead, save up all your paper route money and see if someone recorded the last 15 years of CNN and buy the tapes from them.

This is just music to my ears. Thank you for your logic sir.

 

[SKILMATIC]

The only way to have peace in the middle east is to remove all the arabs.
It would seem easier to remove the Israelis, but that would just remove the nearest target of hate for the arabs. Then the arabs would just fight each other. That may be the ticket, we can give one of our lesser important states to Israel, and they can all leave the middle east. Trouble is, they are too attached to the concept of a "holy land", and the same land is holy to the arabs. I don't get the concept of a holy land, where is it in the bible that God said to fight over dirt?
stupid, stupid, stupid.....

Well its actually all over the Bible primarily in the OT. But I get your point. It is unrighteous to fight over dirt. IMO the only time it is ok to fight is to either protect others or to protect yourself.