Should the existing 700 miles of border barrier be removed?

[joko104]

Currently there is 700 miles of existing border barrier, voted for by Pelosi and Schumer. Trump wants to add 300 miles and wanted a total of 25 billion, $5.7 billion in this budget. The shutdown is costing $6 billion per week - costing more than the entire cost of the 300 miles for nothing in return. Simply, the government is spending billions not to have a border barrier, with the Democratic Party claiming a border barrier is "immoral," not just that it doesn't work at all.

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless, then should the existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

 

[Lutherf]

Currently there is 700 miles of existing border barrier, voted for by Pelosi and Schumer. Trump wants to add 300 miles and wanted a total of 25 billion, $5.7 billion in this budget. The shutdown is costing $6 billion per week - costing more than the entire cost of the 300 miles for nothing in return. Simply, the government is spending billions not to have a border barrier, with the Democratic Party claiming a border barrier is "immoral," not just that it doesn't work at all.

If a border barrier is immoral, then then existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

If a border barrier is immoral, then I don't understand why a border of any kind would be moral. I mean, "border" pretty much implies a barrier of some type. Even if it's just a Walmart greeter waving hello as you cross and clicking his customer count clicker that's still, at a minimum, and intellectual barrier.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise, they don't actually have an argument.

Some sort of border is useful in highly populated areas, like southern California. It's a smaller area that can be manned so you can see people trying to get by it. Even then, it doesn't stop people from getting in. Just makes it slightly harder. A border across the entire southern border, in desolate areas, which can't possibly be manned and patrolled, it s complete and utter waste of money.

Are you right wingers really this dumb, or just being dishonest to play the partisan hack? It's nothing but complete idiocy to think a border wall is needed or a good idea, that would cost billions, can't possibly be manned, would cost even more in upkeep,can easily be avoided and does not even prevent the majority of immigration and drugs that enter this country

conservatives whined about 3 billion going to insure friggen kids, and they want to spend money on a political ploy that won't do a damn thing to help anybody?

This country has come to really suck with the amount of uneducated, dishonest, unempathetic scumbags. I'd gladly trade the hard working family people from Mexico than a lot of the heartless idiots we have in this country.

now cue the standard dumb responses like "your house has walled" and other unintelligent, idiotic deflections

 

[joko104]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise, they don't actually have an argument.

Some sort of border is useful in highly populated areas, like southern California. It's a smaller area that can be manned so you can see people trying to get by it. Even then, it doesn't stop people from getting in. Just makes it slightly harder. A border across the entire southern border, in desolate areas, which can't possibly be manned and patrolled, it s complete and utter waste of money.

Are you right wingers really this dumb, or just being dishonest to play the partisan hack? It's nothing but complete idiocy to think a border wall is needed or a good idea, that would cost billions, can't possibly be manned, would cost even more in upkeep,can easily be avoided and does not even prevent the majority of immigration and drugs that enter this country

conservatives whined about 3 billion going to insure friggen kids, and they want to spend money on a political ploy that won't do a damn thing to help anybody?

This country has come to really suck with the amount of uneducated, dishonest, unempathetic scumbags. I'd gladly trade the hard working family people from Mexico than a lot of the heartless idiots we have in this country.

now cue the standard dumb responses like "your house has walled" and other unintelligent, idiotic deflections

So a border barrier is or is not immoral?

 

[americanwoman]

So a border barrier is or is not immoral?

Who specifically said a barrier was immoral?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Currently there is 700 miles of existing border barrier, voted for by Pelosi and Schumer. Trump wants to add 300 miles and wanted a total of 25 billion, $5.7 billion in this budget. The shutdown is costing $6 billion per week - costing more than the entire cost of the 300 miles for nothing in return. Simply, the government is spending billions not to have a border barrier, with the Democratic Party claiming a border barrier is "immoral," not just that it doesn't work at all.

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless, then should the existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

That is a good question. Whether demorats believe the "immorality" nonsense that Pelosi spewed rather than simply want to keep playing resist, resist, resist would be a better question.

A better question still would be why adding a few (220?) miles of the Great Wall Of Trump would be more effective than mandating E-Verify for the deduction of direct labor costs for federal income tax purposes. Very few of the border jumpers are doing so for reasons other than seeking much better paying jobs in the US than can be had in their homelands. The fewer illegal immigrants for economic reasons who show up, then the more border security resources can be used to stop criminals, terrorists and drug runners.

 

[Mycroft]

Currently there is 700 miles of existing border barrier, voted for by Pelosi and Schumer. Trump wants to add 300 miles and wanted a total of 25 billion, $5.7 billion in this budget. The shutdown is costing $6 billion per week - costing more than the entire cost of the 300 miles for nothing in return. Simply, the government is spending billions not to have a border barrier, with the Democratic Party claiming a border barrier is "immoral," not just that it doesn't work at all.

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless, then should the existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

I know your focus is on "moral", since that's the line Nancy chose to run with...stupid as it is...but I prefer to take a different approach to your poll.

I vote "Other". That existing 700 miles of barrier is useless because, as NBC showed us, it can be defeated with common household tools. It should be completely removed and replaced with the MUCH better barrier that DHS has selected.

 

[Lutherf]

Who specifically said a barrier was immoral?

The same people that claim Trump is holding the American people "hostage" when, time and again, he has offered ways to avoid a shutdown that the Democrats have dismissed out of hand. It seems to me that being a "hostage" to your own decision falls pretty much directly in line with believing that a border wall is "immoral".

 

[haymarket]

Currently there is 700 miles of existing border barrier, voted for by Pelosi and Schumer. Trump wants to add 300 miles and wanted a total of 25 billion, $5.7 billion in this budget. The shutdown is costing $6 billion per week - costing more than the entire cost of the 300 miles for nothing in return. Simply, the government is spending billions not to have a border barrier, with the Democratic Party claiming a border barrier is "immoral," not just that it doesn't work at all.

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless, then should the existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

If I do not want to spend a fortune on fancy new clothes because I have several nice suits and sport coats in the closet, by your "reasoning" (and I use the term very charitably) I need to throw all the older ones out.

This is a perfect example of the upside down, ass backwards thinking of Trumpkins and their ridiculous attempts to support something that was no more than a hollow campaign sop to a bunch of xenophobic racist deplorable and never intended as a serous public policy.

 

[joko104]

If I do not want to spend a fortune on fancy new clothes because I have several nice suits and sport coats in the closet, by your "reasoning" (and I use the term very charitably) I need to throw all the older ones out.

This is a perfect example of the upside down, ass backwards thinking of Trumpkins and their ridiculous attempts to support something that was no more than a hollow campaign sop to a bunch of xenophobic racist deplorable and never intended as a serous public policy.

Pelosi and Schumer are deplorable racist xenophobes? Or were just a few years ago but now admit they were 100% immoral, though won't actually admit that specifically? If you say so.

 

[MrWonka]

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless, then should the existing 700 miles of existing border barrier be removed because it is immoral and doesn't do anything anyway?

If it's already up there's likely no point in wasting the money on tearing it down, but yeah it's unnecessary, and I'm fine with removing it.

 

[CitizenBasehead]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise,

More crying from weak chin from liberals, can't say I'm surprised.

they don't actually have an argument.

Do we ever?

Here's some interesting questions.

What happens when Trump (or anyone for that matter finally) cracks down on drugs being smuggled through our ports and boarder entries? Are people going to stop trying to smuggle drugs into the US?

What happens when welfare gets reformed, we have to start employing our own citizens and we stop handing out work visas. Do people stop trying to enter our country?

What happens when immigration reform takes place and the asylum laws changed? Do people stop trying to come in the country?

 

[CitizenBasehead]

This is a perfect example of the upside down, ass backwards thinking of Trumpkins and their ridiculous attempts to support something that was no more than a hollow campaign sop to a bunch of xenophobic racist deplorable and never intended as a serous public policy.

This is a perfect example of the idiotic Aryan-Phobic hatred you people love to spew.

 

[haymarket]

This is a perfect example of the idiotic Aryan-Phobic hatred you people love to spew.

I don't even know what that means...... "Aryan phobic hatred"?????? :doh:roll: Thats a new one.

 

[Xelor]

Should the existing 700 miles of Southern border barrier be removed?

I haven't seen any cost-benefit analysis (combined functional and economic) pertaining to the existing wall structure(s), so I really don't know.

I suspect the return function applicable to extant border fencing is parabolic, but where on the curve we sit and what the removal curve looks like I couldn't say.

 

[Phys251]

Considering the cartel's and coyotes' abilities to get over, under, and around what fencing their is, they might as well.

P.S. My "yes" vote was a joke. I just want to see who will actually acknowledge this before getting triggered by it!

 

[Mycroft]

I haven't seen any cost-benefit analysis (combined functional and economic) pertaining to the existing wall structure(s), so I really don't know.

I suspect the return function applicable to extant border fencing is parabolic, but where on the curve we sit and what the removal curve looks like I couldn't say.

There's a Dem Congressman out there for you...I forget his name. There's a thread here about him.

He wants a study done before he'll consider any border security spending. In the meantime, I guess he has no problem with new border jumpers coming into the US.

 

[Objective Voice]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise, they don't actually have an argument.

Some sort of border is useful in highly populated areas, like southern California. It's a smaller area that can be manned so you can see people trying to get by it. Even then, it doesn't stop people from getting in. Just makes it slightly harder. A border across the entire southern border, in desolate areas, which can't possibly be manned and patrolled, it s complete and utter waste of money.

Are you right wingers really this dumb, or just being dishonest to play the partisan hack? It's nothing but complete idiocy to think a border wall is needed or a good idea, that would cost billions, can't possibly be manned, would cost even more in upkeep,can easily be avoided and does not even prevent the majority of immigration and drugs that enter this country

conservatives whined about 3 billion going to insure friggen kids, and they want to spend money on a political ploy that won't do a damn thing to help anybody?

This country has come to really suck with the amount of uneducated, dishonest, unempathetic scumbags. I'd gladly trade the hard working family people from Mexico than a lot of the heartless idiots we have in this country.

now cue the standard dumb responses like "your house has walled" and other unintelligent, idiotic deflections

:lamo

Somebody hit me with that one in this very forum about a week or so ago. I thought the idea was so idiotic I didn't bother to dignify it with an answer.

 

[Objective Voice]

So a border barrier is or is not immoral?

Way to try and twist Speaker Pelosi's words. She didn't say a barrier was immortal. She said, "a wall is an immoral between countries...it's an old way of thinking and it isn't cost effective".

 

[HumblePi]

I think this entire thread is just bait. Obviously, nobody wants 700 miles of already established border fencing removed, that's just silly. Nobody wants open borders, that's a myth perpetuated by the right. Nobody needs a completely sealed off border either. Fences are fine where fences make sense. As most of us know by now, most of the illegals in the U.S. are here because of VISA overstays. That's where the majority of our illegal immigrants have come from but Trump has done nothing to address that problem whatsoever. Trump hasn't talked about it because he's not really serious about immigration, he only wants to talk about the wall because that's what his base wants to hear, that's something they can understand.

 

[Rogue Valley]

If a border barrier is immoral and worthless.....

That's an emotional value judgement. Trump has submitted absolutely nothing (other than a campaign promise) in the way of hard data which demonstrates that a wall is superior to other enforcement methods.

Trump doesn't even know what wall material he plans to use: concrete, steel-slats, somethings else. When the 8 prototype walls submitted by contractors and erected near San Diego were tested by the DHS, all 8 failed.

If Trump wants a wall, he is going to have to demonstrate why it is superior, decide where it should go, how much does it cost per mile? who awards the contracts? where are the environmental studies? etc. etc. etc.

 

[RetiredUSN]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise, they don't actually have an argument.

Some sort of border is useful in highly populated areas, like southern California. It's a smaller area that can be manned so you can see people trying to get by it. Even then, it doesn't stop people from getting in. Just makes it slightly harder. A border across the entire southern border, in desolate areas, which can't possibly be manned and patrolled, it s complete and utter waste of money.

Are you right wingers really this dumb, or just being dishonest to play the partisan hack? It's nothing but complete idiocy to think a border wall is needed or a good idea, that would cost billions, can't possibly be manned, would cost even more in upkeep,can easily be avoided and does not even prevent the majority of immigration and drugs that enter this country

conservatives whined about 3 billion going to insure friggen kids, and they want to spend money on a political ploy that won't do a damn thing to help anybody?

This country has come to really suck with the amount of uneducated, dishonest, unempathetic scumbags. I'd gladly trade the hard working family people from Mexico than a lot of the heartless idiots we have in this country.

now cue the standard dumb responses like "your house has walled" and other unintelligent, idiotic deflections

If the structure and spelling errors in your post are any indication, then maybe you also could look into a little education?

 

[HumblePi]

More dumb **** from conservatives, no surprise, they don't actually have an argument.

Some sort of border is useful in highly populated areas, like southern California. It's a smaller area that can be manned so you can see people trying to get by it. Even then, it doesn't stop people from getting in. Just makes it slightly harder. A border across the entire southern border, in desolate areas, which can't possibly be manned and patrolled, it s complete and utter waste of money.

Are you right wingers really this dumb, or just being dishonest to play the partisan hack? It's nothing but complete idiocy to think a border wall is needed or a good idea, that would cost billions, can't possibly be manned, would cost even more in upkeep,can easily be avoided and does not even prevent the majority of immigration and drugs that enter this country

conservatives whined about 3 billion going to insure friggen kids, and they want to spend money on a political ploy that won't do a damn thing to help anybody?

This country has come to really suck with the amount of uneducated, dishonest, unempathetic scumbags. I'd gladly trade the hard working family people from Mexico than a lot of the heartless idiots we have in this country.

now cue the standard dumb responses like "your house has walled" and other unintelligent, idiotic deflections

When asked to find a common ground between opposing viewpoints people would rather stand on their islands of intolerance and yell at each other. Our president not only amplifies this attitude, he exemplifies it.

 

[AK Conservative]

Heck no!

 

[uptower]

I'd imagine the only sensible answer would be 'it depends'. It depends on the section of border the practicality, current effectiveness, cost vs benefits, environmental concerns, humanitarian issues, risk, danger, safety and alternatives. To answer that we'd need a fairly deep knowledge of the whole border security infrastructure, county by county.

But the short answer is likely no, not all of it. To which the Trumpies will no doubt respond, 'See walls work!". That is also a false choice: all or nothing.