Should the Bush Administration have approved the sale of 6 U.S. port to Arabs?

[JOHNYJ]

This was Bush administration arogance,pure and simple. Consult, we don't consult. There may be nothing wrong with this deal at all,but. Because of administration arogance it has become a nighmare.

 

[Saboteur]

I am NOT FOR THE SALE BUT…. playing devils advocate here, what did they ever do to us that would make us deny them the sale?

Well Let's see... where to begin?

During the 1972 Olympics, Arab terrorists took and killed Isreali hostages.

A few years later Arab terrorists hijacked commercial airplanes and took hostages from all over the world including Americans.

Later Arab terrorists bombed a couple of U.S. embassies.

Then again in the early '80s Arab terrorists took more American hostages.

Still more U.S. embassy bombings in the '80s.

In the '90s Arab terrorists bombed the USS Cole and the World Trade Center towers.

In 2001, I shouldn't have to remind you, Arab terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center towers which started a war and now Arab terrorists are sworn to kill any and all Americans and have been doing so every week for the last several years.

And for the last 34+ years all of these terrorists have been monitarily supported by wealthy Arabs many of whom hold positions in Arab government.

Now, I've been accused of supporting terror and saying that terror doesn't exist over and over again by more than a few 'conservative' members during my short time here.... Now they're all open to allowing Arabs take control of some of our ports which are already our biggest security concern. I'm sure their intentions are good but we do not know who could infiltrate their business and use those ports to smuggle people, weapons, chemical agents and drugs into the U.S. these people are our enemy and have been since the winners of WWII gave the Jews Isreal and power.

 

[aps]

I am happy to see the balance of powers at its finest. It will be interesting to see what happens. If Bush goes forward with the deal and vetos legislation passed by Congress, I believe there are enough votes to override the veto. If this happens, Bush's relationship with his base will be altered for the remainder of his term (I think). This whole thing makes Bush look like he has a pre-9-11 mindset.

 

[Saboteur]

I am happy to see the balance of powers at its finest. It will be interesting to see what happens. If Bush goes forward with the deal and vetos legislation passed by Congress, I believe there are enough votes to override the veto. If this happens, Bush's relationship with his base will be altered for the remainder of his term (I think).

I hope that republicans wake up and realise he has used their party to get into power and make money for his freinds.

This whole thing makes Bush look like he has a pre-9-11 mindset.

:2rofll: Yes it does.

 

[Kandahar]

Well Let's see... where to begin?

During the 1972 Olympics, Arab terrorists took and killed Isreali hostages.

A few years later Arab terrorists hijacked commercial airplanes and took hostages from all over the world including Americans.

Later Arab terrorists bombed a couple of U.S. embassies.

Then again in the early '80s Arab terrorists took more American hostages.

Still more U.S. embassy bombings in the '80s.

In the '90s Arab terrorists bombed the USS Cole and the World Trade Center towers.

In 2001, I shouldn't have to remind you, Arab terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center towers which started a war and now Arab terrorists are sworn to kill any and all Americans and have been doing so every week for the last several years.

And for the last 34+ years all of these terrorists have been monitarily supported by wealthy Arabs many of whom hold positions in Arab government.

Now, I've been accused of supporting terror and saying that terror doesn't exist over and over again by more than a few 'conservative' members during my short time here.... Now they're all open to allowing Arabs take control of some of our ports which are already our biggest security concern. I'm sure their intentions are good but we do not know who could infiltrate their business and use those ports to smuggle people, weapons, chemical agents and drugs into the U.S. these people are our enemy and have been since the winners of WWII gave the Jews Isreal and power.

In case you missed it, the name of the emirate in question is Dubai, not GenericArabCountryistan.

 

[Saboteur]

In case you missed it, the name of the emirate in question is Dubai, not GenericArabCountryistan.

Nothing..... Yet.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/563960/posts

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0903/62.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/742972.cms

http://www.agonist.org/archives/009306.html

http://www.terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=16141

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/terror/20041212-0601-cargosecurity.html

"More than half of the Sept. 11 hijackers flew directly from Dubai to the United States in the final stages for the attack, according to a report on the attacks. Also, some of the money used by the terrorists was wired from Dubai banks."

 

[Kandahar]

"More than half of the Sept. 11 hijackers flew directly from Dubai to the United States in the final stages for the attack, according to a report on the attacks.

And this proves what? That Dubai has a thriving airline industry?

Also, some of the money used by the terrorists was wired from Dubai banks."

And this proves what? That Dubai has a thriving banking industry?

 

[Saboteur]

And this proves what? That Dubai has a thriving airline industry?



And this proves what? That Dubai has a thriving banking industry?

Did you happen to read any of the articles I linked?

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

"United States officials are focusing closely on Dubai, looking for ways to stop the flow of terrorists' funds. But experts say there are daunting difficulties to penetrating the maze"

 

[Kandahar]

Did you happen to read any of the articles I linked?

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

They basically said the same thing that you wrote in two sentences, and which I refuted in two sentences.

 

[Saboteur]

They basically said the same thing that you wrote in two sentences, and which I refuted in two sentences.

You may have read them but you must not have understood them. Maybe you didn't read them though... If you did you woud have realized that those two sentances weren't mine they belonged to the last article I linked to.

I have a feeling there will be no living with you after this is all said and done.

 

[Kandahar]

You may have read them but you must not have understood them. Maybe you didn't read them though... If you did you woud have realized that those two sentances weren't mine they belonged to the last article I linked to.

Do you really expect a nuanced response to "Read these six articles because I'm too lazy to debate my points myself"?

When you offer some arguments to support your view, I'll be more than happy to tear them apart.

I have a feeling there will be no living with you after this is all said and done.

What

 

[talloulou]

I originally voted no on this issue but I might have been wrong. As I get more information I'm starting to come around......not quite there yet but I'm no longer completely outraged.....nor deadset against it.

Shame you can't change your vote when you change your mind. Although.....not sure? isn't an option in the poll anyway.

 

[Inuyasha]

I originally voted no on this issue but I might have been wrong. As I get more information I'm starting to come around......not quite there yet but I'm no longer completely outraged.....nor deadset against it.

Shame you can't change your vote when you change your mind. Although.....not sure? isn't an option in the poll anyway.

I find myself much in agreement with talloulou on this. Especially after reading Kandahar's reply (post 25) to my post (24) and doing some research on it.

My first reaction was pretty much a "knee-jerk" reaction. Arabs, Muslim fundamentalists, 911 hijackers. I may have given those elements too much consideration an need to rethink them. I was also incensed that foreign powers were operating our ports but this seems to be very commonplace.

I am disappointed that US firms do not want to handle this just out of national consideration. It is a bit like the field of architecture in Chicago. I found that the great majority of upper level executives are Indian and Pakistani. There is much complaint about this but they are complaints that should be dismissed out of hand. In the 1960's and 670's young American architecture students didn't want the low paying jobs of draftsmen so the jobs were given to Indian and Pakistani immigrants. Today they are the CEO's and top executives. I can't feel sorry for those who didn't want to start at the bottom and work their way up.

I am also disappointed in the unusual amount of confrontation that the administration poses, not just on this issue but on others as well. It is an arrogant and vindictive administration that appears divorced from many of the true American conservative ideals. It's almost like they only want these 8 years of total dominance and don't give a tinker's damn about what happens to the American political system down the line.

 

[Saboteur]

I originally voted no on this issue but I might have been wrong. As I get more information I'm starting to come around......not quite there yet but I'm no longer completely outraged.....nor deadset against it.

Shame you can't change your vote when you change your mind. Although.....not sure? isn't an option in the poll anyway.

Well you could have voted that you hate Saboteur.:smile:

 

[Saboteur]

Alright folks here's the skinny.

I know you want to rip me to shreds, especially you Kandy, and frankly I'm surprised that you were too lazy to destroy me. Anyway here goes.

According to the man in charge of the deal, Dubai Ports World is mainly operated by American and British firms with Dubai Ports World being the financial parent company.

Also, the country of Dubai participates with the U.S. in the International Ports Security Coalition in an effort to deter terroism through shipping ports (but that doesn't mean there aren't shady, wealthy Arabs that fund terror in their government), and Kan Kan, if you had read at least one of those articles you'd have gotten that info and won this debate. Kinda reminds me of the arrogance of the current administration. :stooges

So, there you have it.

The only issues here now are the fact that Congress and Homeland Security were informed at about the same time as the President.

 

[Hillary]

I believe he knew of the deal before it was approve by his administration. Thats why he's fighting so hard for this deal to go through. By blaming his underlings, he has an escape route when things start getting hot.

 

[Saboteur]

I believe he knew of the deal before it was approve by his administration. Thats why he's fighting so hard for this deal to go through. By blaming his underlings, he has an escape route when things start getting hot.

Well I'm not one of those guys that holds on to one idea at a time. Part of me wants to post in the Conspiracy Theory forum about how I think this is the first step in Bush's plan to allow another terrorist attack happen in the U.S. then declare that he needs to remain president until the war on terror is over, which will be never, and a frightend senate, congress and country will let it happen.

 

[doughgirl]

Saboteur said, “Well Let's see... where to begin?
During the 1972 Olympics, Arab terrorists took and killed Isreali hostages.
A few years later Arab terrorists hijacked commercial airplanes and took hostages from all over the world including Americans.
Later Arab terrorists bombed a couple of U.S. embassies.
Then again in the early '80s Arab terrorists took more American hostages.
Still more U.S. embassy bombings in the '80s.
In the '90s Arab terrorists bombed the USS Cole and the World Trade Center towers.
In 2001, I shouldn't have to remind you, Arab terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center towers which started a war and now Arab terrorists are sworn to kill any and all Americans and have been doing so every week for the last several years.
And for the last 34+ years all of these terrorists have been monitarily supported by wealthy Arabs many of whom hold positions in Arab government.

Now, I've been accused of supporting terror and saying that terror doesn't exist over and over again by more than a few 'conservative' members during my short time here.... Now they're all open to allowing Arabs take control of some of our ports which are already our biggest security concern. I'm sure their intentions are good but we do not know who could infiltrate their business and use those ports to smuggle people, weapons, chemical agents and drugs into the U.S. these people are our enemy and have been since the winners of WWII gave the Jews Isreal and power.”

I agree with most of your post....... I am not for the sale and Bush needs his head examined if in fact he ok’d this, but then he thought after 9-11 Islam was a religion of peace didnt we?

……………But those who said we had no right to do anything to Iraq………how do they justify saying we can’t sell the ports?

You said, “I hope that republicans wake up and realise he has used their party to get into power and make money for his freinds.”

And had Clinton been President at the time of 9-11 what would he have done? He did nothing to stop terrorism before 9-11……..what makes you think any Democrat would have done anything. Hell Sadam would still be roaming around if some Democrat had been president at the time. The threats of terrorism did not start with 9-11.
By 1999 there were serious threats to the country in terms of Islamic terrorism.
Clinton even admitted it. Yet while this was going on, while we were beginning to get threats from bin laden, Clinton was pardoning terrorists who had killed New York cops. He also freed radical Puerto Rican terrorists responsible for humdreds of bombings on American Soil. Clintons approach to terrorism was horrendous. Carter did the same thing. Both these presidents were incompetent. Sudan offered Bin Laden on a silver platter back in 1996 but Clinton and Gore let him slip away. Had they gotten him then maybe 9-11 might never have happened, the bombing of our American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania might never have happened and the bombing of the USS Cole might never have happened.

 

[KCConservative]

China runs one of our ports in L.A. Why haven't we heard the outrage on this?

 

[ptsdkid]

There are countless reasons why we should go through with the sale of ports to UAE. A few observations first:

I am surprised that so many Republicans have followed suit with the liberals in their opposition.

Bush knew about this eventual sale since at least November. The Congress was also notified, briefed and then briefed again on this potential sale in November, as well, with little if no opposition or concern to the plan back then.

I believe Bush is performing another political rope-a-dope by promising a veto if Congress votes against the sale.

Liberals will once again be put into the position of being two-faced here. Liberals have always accused Republicans of unnecessary profiling of Arab looking people at airports etc. Liberal opposition to this sale makes them look like they're discriminating against the Arab nations.

Liberals are quick to point out that foreigners hate Americans because of our imperialistic and occupying overseas forces while under a Republican administration. Profiling and badmouthing the UAE contradicts the liberal view of themselves as being the considerate, loving humanistic party that they so believe in.

The only thing changing with the sale to UAE will be the name of the new owners. All security at the 6 ports will remain under the auspices of the very same homeland security forces. The concern over security should be directed to the fact that currently only 5% of the goods coming through the ports are being inspected. America needs to hire more inspectors for a thorough look see into all cargo entering our ports.

Liberals have always insisted that America negotiate, that we use peaceful means to obtain all foreign objectives, that we learn to make partners, even if it is to overlook their misgivings. Well, Bush is doing just that by selling these ports to a company of strategic importance to us. The UAE headquarters just happens to be at the mouth of the Straight of Hurmuth or some such name on the coast of Iran. Bush is probably looking and planning ahead by thinking that if the time comes when we (American troops) need easy entrance into Iran--that he would then have a legitimate alliance with UAE in which to proceed up the straight of Hurmuth.

What the hell is the big concern here? Anything out of the ordinary as far as cargo is or should be detected by the very same inspectors...no?

 

[Inuyasha]

If Homaland Security is anything like FEMA we all better start learning Chinese or Arabic.

 

[jamesrage]

I am surprised that so many Republicans have followed suit with the liberals in their opposition.

Not everyone thinks it makes sense to sell off pieces of our country and industries to other nations to make a quick buck.Although I think most liberals are proably doing this because elections are coming up and they want to kiss ***,considering their history of siding with the enemy.

 

[DeeJayH]

Well you could have voted that you hate Saboteur.:smile:

thats how i chose to vote :mrgreen:

 

[DeeJayH]

so how about the fact that the UAE and Bush's go way back?
how about the fact that the UAE has donated money to them in the past?
how about the fact we have a military base there, which would be helpful if we end up attacking Iran?
how about the fact they are anti-Iran?
how about the fact that they gave $100,000,000 in Katrina Aid, 4 times more than all the other countries COMBINED?

The biggest surprise for me was that nobody brought up the family ties yet

 

[Australianlibertarian]

The whole debate is pointless.

If terrorists want to, they can put a bomb on a ship and get it loaded at any other American port!

What is important are the security measures, not who runs the port.....:twocents: