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Should Spanish Be a Required Subject in School?

RabidAlpaca

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And yet their children born here are not- since they're already citizens by virtue of being born here.

Pam

Then they should speak our ****ing language. This isn't complicated. Nobody is interested in your fascist policies of forcing children to learn spanish. I, like most Americans, don't want to talk to illegal immigrants. If they want to get along in our society, learn English, or tough titties.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Calm down, dude.

Pam

No. Just because you like spanish doesn't mean you need to force it on everyone else. How well do you think anybody would really even learn it if it were shoved down their throats? A lot of Americans take spanish in high school, and yet almost none of them walk out knowing more than "dos cervezas por favor". You're trying to waste everyone's time so that you can coddle lazy, lazy, lazy mother ****ers, who want to immigrate to a country without even attempting to learn the language. They're pathetic, and I won't cater to them.
 

Heebie Jeebie

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So, one in 133 jobs requires Spanish-English bilingualism.

Well thats a good reason to teach millions of kids spanish for 10 years.

At least you would have another 20,000 or so new jobs created that require bilingual speakers.
 

German guy

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Then they should speak our ****ing language. This isn't complicated. Nobody is interested in your fascist policies of forcing children to learn spanish. I, like most Americans, don't want to talk to illegal immigrants. If they want to get along in our society, learn English, or tough titties.

Oh, that immigrants should learn the common language in their new home is a no-brainer. Of course they should. For a gazillion of reasons.
 

jimbo

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And yet their children born here are not- since they're already citizens by virtue of being born here.

Pam

True, but if you get rid of "press 1 for Spanish", those children will of necessity learn English. In addition, the numbers you put forth as Spanish speakers, which does not include Spanish only speakers, would be considerably diminished if they only included legal citizens, resulting in even less reason for me to learn Spanish.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Oh, that immigrants should learn the common language in their new home is a no-brainer. Of course they should. For a gazillion of reasons.

Genau. I moved to Germany, so I learned German and have made an active effort to integrate. This would be the equivalent of Germany forcing everyone to learn Turkish because there are so many Turks. It's ridiculous.
 

humbolt

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It makes sense to prepare students to compete in the job market.

Pam
It does. Requiring any specific alternate language does not because it is the student who makes the decision regarding what specific market they will compete in.
 

German guy

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Genau. I moved to Germany, so I learned German and have made an active effort to integrate. This would be the equivalent of Germany forcing everyone to learn Turkish because there are so many Turks. It's ridiculous.

Absolutely.

Now I think at least one foreign language should be required for students in school, but not for the purpose of conversing with immigrants who are too lazy to learn the language of their new home.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Absolutely.

Now I think at least one foreign language should be required for students in school, but not for the purpose of conversing with immigrants who are too lazy to learn the language of their new home.

I agree. I don't think it hurts at all to require a foreign language, as long as there is a selection. I still remember my parents saying to me in middle school when I picked German "We support you regardless, but... Why don't you learn Spanish? When are you ever going to need German?" I still laugh at them about that today. In fact, my mom just started learning German so she can do Ok when she visits.

^^ This is a 55 year old woman who is making an attempt just so she doesn't seem ignorant on vacation trips. I have zero ****ing pity for immigrants who want to live in the US and refuse to attempt to learn English.
 

ttwtt78640

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Absolutely.

Now I think at least one foreign language should be required for students in school, but not for the purpose of conversing with immigrants who are too lazy to learn the language of their new home.

Not required, simply offered as an elective. What other "required" subject would you replace with this dabbling in a foreign language? I would prefer my "foreign" language to be C++, Ada or Javascript, something that allows for a better employment opportunity. ;)
 

gungadin

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Oh, that immigrants should learn the common language in their new home is a no-brainer. Of course they should. For a gazillion of reasons.

That would be why I'm not advocating against the teaching of English.

Pam
 

German guy

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I agree. I don't think it hurts at all to require a foreign language, as long as there is a selection. I still remember my parents saying to me in middle school when I picked German "We support you regardless, but... Why don't you learn Spanish? When are you ever going to need German?" I still laugh at them about that today. In fact, my mom just started learning German so she can do Ok when she visits.

^^ This is a 55 year old woman who is making an attempt just so she doesn't seem ignorant on vacation trips. I have zero ****ing pity for immigrants who want to live in the US and refuse to attempt to learn English.

That's great! :)

And I have to applaud you for the mastering of the German language, based on the couple of times you demonstratred it. I don't think immigrants need to be able to master their new language on Shakespeare- or Goethe-level, but they should be able to get along in everyday life. I guess your German is better than my English. And German is probably a more complicated language to learn. :)

As for Turks in Germany ... I guess it's not bad when German students have the option of chosing Turkish as second foreign language. Makes sense. It's not bad when we take an effort to learn the language of our largest immigrant group. But that doesn't mean Turkish immigrants here should not take efforts to learn German. IMO, that's really basic when you come here. You don't need to become another Goethe, of course, but you should really know enough to be fit for a job here.
 

RabidAlpaca

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That's great! :)

And I have to applaud you for the mastering of the German language, based on the couple of times you demonstratred it. I don't think immigrants need to be able to master their new language on Shakespeare- or Goethe-level, but they should be able to get along in everyday life. I guess your German is better than my English. And German is probably a more complicated language to learn. :)

As for Turks in Germany ... I guess it's not bad when German students have the option of chosing Turkish as second foreign language. Makes sense. It's not bad when we take an effort to learn the language of our largest immigrant group. But that doesn't mean Turkish immigrants here should not take efforts to learn German. IMO, that's really basic when you come here. You don't need to become another Goethe, of course, but you should really know enough to be fit for a job here.

I think you overestimate my German. I make a LOT of mistakes, and my accent is absolutely atrocious. But you know what? I made an effort, and people can understand me well, even if I'm not an elegant speaker.

All I ask is that immigrants solidly try to learn the language, and not expect us to bend to them.
 

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I think you overestimate my German. I make a LOT of mistakes, and my accent is absolutely atrocious. But you know what? I made an effort, and people can understand me well, even if I'm not an elegant speaker.

All I ask is that immigrants solidly try to learn the language, and not expect us to bend to them.

I wanted to ask you for a while ... what do you think of the practize of dubbing non-German movies and tv series with the German language here?

Most Germans envy Scandinavians and Dutch for their English language skills, and I wonder if the reason why they're so good in English is less because of their schools, and more because they don't dub English language tv programs, but broadcast them in the original with subtitles. I guess my English would be much better, if I had had the chance of watching all my favorite programs in English with subs ever since I was 6! ;)
 

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EDITED: This is old data that used to be contained on the Wikipedia site on Spanish language in the U.S. (link below) The site has changed, and no longer gives those percentages by state (although it does give percentages by country, as does this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spanish_in_the_United_States_by_countr.gif ) I'll try to find another link.

The 2004 American Community Survey (from the U.S. Census Bureau) these are the percentages of Spanish speakers living in the U.S., by state:

New Mexico: 43.27%
California: 34.72%
Texas: 34.63%
Arizona: 28.03%
Nevada: 19.27%
Florida: 19.27%
New York: 15.96%
New Jersey: 13.89%
Illinois: 12.70%
Colorado: 12.35%

The remaining states have less than 10% of their populations speaking Spanish.
Spanish language in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spanish is also predicted to become the world's second most spoken language (after Chinese) by 2050.
newamericamedia.org/2011/02/us-will-be-biggest-spanish-speaking-country-by-2050-says-scholar.php

Should Spanish be a required subject in school? If so, for which states and starting in what grades?

Pam

Seems like a Hell of a lot more than that. They're everywhere you go. Particularly places that are free. Maybe it's the volume.
 

Helix

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i'm cool with a foreign language requirement. i would add the following stipulation, though : the language training begins in early elementary school. when i was in school, they didn't offer foreign language courses until high school. if you wait that long, it becomes exponentially more difficult. in China, Europe, and pretty much everywhere else, they start much earlier. kids are like sponges when it comes to language. teens and adults, not so much.
 

Harshaw

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I'm not asking whether they ought to require the study of a foreign language. I'm asking whether they ought to require the study of Spanish, specifically.

Pam

No. :shrug:
 

Carjosse

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I guess in those states it would be a good idea to enroll your children in Spanish classes but since it isn't an official language they shouldn't be forced.
 

RabidAlpaca

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I wanted to ask you for a while ... what do you think of the practize of dubbing non-German movies and tv series with the German language here?

Most Germans envy Scandinavians and Dutch for their English language skills, and I wonder if the reason why they're so good in English is less because of their schools, and more because they don't dub English language tv programs, but broadcast them in the original with subtitles. I guess my English would be much better, if I had had the chance of watching all my favorite programs in English with subs ever since I was 6! ;)

We've had the technology for decades to be able to select the language track on TV signals, so why choose? Why not have it with the click of a remote you can watch it dubbed or in the original language?
 

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Hasta la vista. And bienvenidos, which means, "come on in, and we'll shake you down". One I learned from Arnold, and the other from experience. Have good day. It's required.
 

German guy

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We've had the technology for decades to be able to select the language track on TV signals, so why choose? Why not have it with the click of a remote you can watch it dubbed or in the original language?

Yes, that's obviously the best choice. No idea why we don't have that on German tv. But on DVDs and Blu Rays, we finally have that choice.
 

Tigger

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Should Spanish be a required subject in school? If so, for which states and starting in what grades?

NO. Not only shouldn't it be required, it shouldn't be ALLOWED. Nor should French, German, or anything other than English.
 

Oceandan

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EDITED: This is old data that used to be contained on the Wikipedia site on Spanish language in the U.S. (link below) The site has changed, and no longer gives those percentages by state (although it does give percentages by country, as does this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spanish_in_the_United_States_by_countr.gif ) I'll try to find another link.

The 2004 American Community Survey (from the U.S. Census Bureau) these are the percentages of Spanish speakers living in the U.S., by state:

New Mexico: 43.27%
California: 34.72%
Texas: 34.63%
Arizona: 28.03%
Nevada: 19.27%
Florida: 19.27%
New York: 15.96%
New Jersey: 13.89%
Illinois: 12.70%
Colorado: 12.35%

The remaining states have less than 10% of their populations speaking Spanish.
Spanish language in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spanish is also predicted to become the world's second most spoken language (after Chinese) by 2050.
newamericamedia.org/2011/02/us-will-be-biggest-spanish-speaking-country-by-2050-says-scholar.php

Should Spanish be a required subject in school? If so, for which states and starting in what grades?

Pam

Sure as soon as we adopt Spanish as the official language of the United States of America.
 

Andalublue

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That's great! :)

And I have to applaud you for the mastering of the German language, based on the couple of times you demonstratred it. I don't think immigrants need to be able to master their new language on Shakespeare- or Goethe-level, but they should be able to get along in everyday life. I guess your German is better than my English. And German is probably a more complicated language to learn. :)

As for Turks in Germany ... I guess it's not bad when German students have the option of chosing Turkish as second foreign language. Makes sense. It's not bad when we take an effort to learn the language of our largest immigrant group. But that doesn't mean Turkish immigrants here should not take efforts to learn German. IMO, that's really basic when you come here. You don't need to become another Goethe, of course, but you should really know enough to be fit for a job here.

Promoting the learning of Turkish amongst German students is a completely different matter to requiring Turkish students to learn German. You live in a country you should be required to speak one of the official languages of that country. The benefits of Germans learning Turkish would be enormous though. It would promote rather than damage inter-communal understanding; it would open students' minds to a different way of viewing the world; it would open students up to an appreciation of a rich and varied culture, literature and art; and it would be a great academic discipline to master. Win-win, in my opinion. Also, Turkish is SUCH a beautiful language and, I reckon, not that difficult for German speakers. German and Turkish share quite a lot of grammatical features such as agglutination, case agreement, syntax. I found my schoolboy German helped me quite a lot in learning Turkish.
 
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