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Should some murders be legal?

DHard3006 said:
More word games to defend killing unborn children.

Please explain what game is being played with these words. I dont think you have a stance and are grasping at straws now. :lol:
 
GySgt said:
"Should some murders be legal?"

Yes.

I propose that the planet has been overpopulated by the global left and need to be controlled.

"It's liberal season."
Bow or gun? :mrgreen:
 
jallman said:
Please explain what game is being played with these words. I dont think you have a stance and are grasping at straws now.
Well smart guy it would appear you are using word games to justify the murder of unborn children.
 
DHard3006 said:
Well smart guy it would appear you are using word games to justify the murder of unborn children.

Well Captain Evasive, I asked you how. You failed to tell me how. I still think you are grasping at straws until you do. :lol:
 
jallman said:
Well Captain Evasive, I asked you how. You failed to tell me how. I still think you are grasping at straws until you do. :lol:
I'm guessing that it refers to
"oppress"--who is being "oppressed?" And what sort of "oppression?"
"valid"--what criteria indicate "validity?"
"citizens"--what does national citizenry have to do with it?

But I'm just guessing...
 
Daaaaaaaamn. This is a heated battle.

He called you, "smart guy" and then you called him, "Captain Evasive."

The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.
 
GySgt said:
Daaaaaaaamn. This is a heated battle.

He called you, "smart guy" and then you called him, "Captain Evasive."

The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.

Shoot....I hope I didn't blow it by butting in!!!:doh
 
Felicity said:
Shoot....I hope I didn't blow it by butting in!!!:doh


You were a commercial. All is well. The fight will continue. It won't be long before one is called a poo poo head.
 
GySgt said:
You were a commercial. All is well. The fight will continue. It won't be long before one is called a poo poo head.


:rofl now....back to the regularly scheduled programming......


...when we last saw our heros, they were in a nasty verbal exchange....Bullwinkle had just called Boris Badenov a "smart guy" and Boris called Bullwinkle "Captain Evasive".......
 
Felicity said:
:rofl now....back to the regularly scheduled programming......


...when we last saw our heros, they were in a nasty verbal exchange....Bullwinkle had just called Boris Badenov a "smart guy" and Boris called Bullwinkle "Captain Evasive".......

When you two finish braiding eachothers hair and telling eachother how popular the other is, then maybe you can find time to contribute something to the discussion.
 
jallman said:
When you two finish braiding eachothers hair and telling eachother how popular the other is, then maybe you can find time to contribute something to the discussion.

Sourgrapes....:roll:
 
jallman said:
When you two finish braiding eachothers hair and telling eachother how popular the other is, then maybe you can find time to contribute something to the discussion.

No time. The braiding must be perfect.
 
GySgt said:
No time. The braiding must be perfect.
:eek: YOUCH! NOT SO TIGHT!
 
mpg said:
Some people believe that a fetus is merely part of a woman's body and that abortion is the moral equivalent of a haircut. I find this position to be reasonable. I disagree, but I respectfully disagree.

Some people believe that abortion is murder, but it should be legal anyway. I find this position to be unreasonable. If there are any of you out there that take this position, I want you to explain it.

Sure, some murder already is legal... some call it war some call it capital punishment. Others just call it a good business decision.
 
Saboteur said:
Sure, some murder already is legal... some call it war some call it capital punishment. Others just call it a good business decision.

When people die in war, a reason is given. For capital punishment, a reason is given. If abortion is murder, then what's the justification?

Let me repeat myself to make sure that I'm clear. If someone thinks that a fetus is part of a woman's body and therefore abortion is the moral equivalent of a haircut, I disagree, but I consider that point of view to be totally reasonable. The thing is, there aren't many people who feel that way. If they were the only ones who thought that abortion should be legal, then abortion would be illegal. Abortion is legal because many people believe that it should be legal even though they believe that it's murder. Without them, abortion would be illegal. Those are the people that I want to hear from. They should have the courage to admit that they think that some murders should be legal, and they also NEED to explain why these particular murders should be legal.
 
mpg said:
When people die in war, a reason is given. For capital punishment, a reason is given. If abortion is murder, then what's the justification?

Let me repeat myself to make sure that I'm clear. If someone thinks that a fetus is part of a woman's body and therefore abortion is the moral equivalent of a haircut, I disagree, but I consider that point of view to be totally reasonable. The thing is, there aren't many people who feel that way. If they were the only ones who thought that abortion should be legal, then abortion would be illegal. Abortion is legal because many people believe that it should be legal even though they believe that it's murder. Without them, abortion would be illegal. Those are the people that I want to hear from. They should have the courage to admit that they think that some murders should be legal, and they also NEED to explain why these particular murders should be legal.

I don't like abortion, I wish that it weren't possible (But this isn't the land of Nod where the lion lays with the lamb). I do not believe that it is a haircut, I have never been emotionally scared by a haircut, and I do not think that it is murder.

People who do think that it is murder have been misled into believing that the child's soul will be lost. But this is really a lack of faith and a fear of death in those that have already been born. Really, how do we know if the child's soul is lost when the fetus is aborted and how do we know that we didn't just destroy Hiroshima and its citizens with the atom bomb, how do we know that we didn't also kill those people's souls? Maybe nuclear weapons have the power to destroy souls.

Legal or not women will have abortions. It's either done illegally by some sleaze with mob affiliations or legally by a medical doctor. Therefore it should remain legal in my opinion.

And in being legal it should remain so in all cases and aspects including partial birth which has recently been made illegal. I do not believe that partal birth abortions were murder because they had only been performed to save the mother's life.

I do believe that because it is now illegal, it is murder, legal murder, because the mother has no choice now but to die in favor of her child living. Before she had a choice to sacrifice her life or her child's because of an unpreventable complication (which I'm sure some insurance agents would define as an act of god). For an explanation on why the murder of a mother having complications during delivery is legal, ask president Bush.

I do not agree that without people who believe abortion is murder but think it should be legal are the group of people who would tip the scales in favor of banning abortion. I think the majority of people for abortion rights are like me.

As far as war I fail to see how unarmed civilians being shot to death while one marine is yelling at them to stop their car and another is yelling at them to move it is not murder but reasonable. I fail to see how being kidnapped in a Nazi storm trooper type raid, dragged from your home to a secret prison to be deprived of food and water while being beaten for nothing until you expire of a stress induced heart attack is not murder but reasonable.

I fail to see how life in prison is less favorable than execution when execution makes the state as bad as the criminal.
 
"and I do not think that it is murder."

You don't belong in this thread.
__________

"People who do think that it is murder have been misled into believing that the child's soul will be lost. But this is really a lack of faith and a fear of death in those that have already been born. Really, how do we know if the child's soul is lost when the fetus is aborted and how do we know that we didn't just destroy Hiroshima and its citizens with the atom bomb, how do we know that we didn't also kill those people's souls? Maybe nuclear weapons have the power to destroy souls."

I don't believe in souls.
___________

"Legal or not women will have abortions. It's either done illegally by some sleaze with mob affiliations or legally by a medical doctor. Therefore it should remain legal in my opinion."

That's an incredibly lame arguement for legalized abortion.
___________

"I do not believe that partal birth abortions were murder because they had only been performed to save the mother's life."

None of them are done for saving the life or health of the mother.

___________

"I do not agree that without people who believe abortion is murder but think it should be legal are the group of people who would tip the scales in favor of banning abortion. I think the majority of people for abortion rights are like me.

75% believe that it's murder according to a poll that was done a few years ago, yet 75% want it to be legal.
___________

"As far as war I fail to see how unarmed civilians being shot to death while one marine is yelling at them to stop their car and another is yelling at them to move it is not murder but reasonable. I fail to see how being kidnapped in a Nazi storm trooper type raid, dragged from your home to a secret prison to be deprived of food and water while being beaten for nothing until you expire of a stress induced heart attack is not murder but reasonable.

I fail to see how life in prison is less favorable than execution when execution makes the state as bad as the criminal."

Whether the reasons are valid or not is debatable, but at least reasons are given and there IS a debate.
 
mpg said:
"and I do not think that it is murder."

You don't belong in this thread.

Oh I just don't belong? Well Martha, I've got a computer and an opinion. Therefore I do.:2wave:
__________

mpg said:
"People who do think that it is murder have been misled into believing that the child's soul will be lost. But this is really a lack of faith and a fear of death in those that have already been born. Really, how do we know if the child's soul is lost when the fetus is aborted and how do we know that we didn't just destroy Hiroshima and its citizens with the atom bomb, how do we know that we didn't also kill those people's souls? Maybe nuclear weapons have the power to destroy souls."

I don't believe in souls.

Too bad for you.
___________

mpg said:
"Legal or not women will have abortions. It's either done illegally by some sleaze with mob affiliations or legally by a medical doctor. Therefore it should remain legal in my opinion."

That's an incredibly lame arguement for legalized abortion.

So you think making abortion a crime wouldn't give rise to more crime and in turn higher taxes and health care costs?

Keep going to school.
___________

mpg said:
"I do not believe that partal birth abortions were murder because they had only been performed to save the mother's life."

None of them are done for saving the life or health of the mother.

I think that's a lie. Proof please.:confused:

___________

mpg said:
"I do not agree that without people who believe abortion is murder but think it should be legal are the group of people who would tip the scales in favor of banning abortion. I think the majority of people for abortion rights are like me.

75% believe that it's murder according to a poll that was done a few years ago, yet 75% want it to be legal.

Source of poll and where most of poll was done, how many participants and when would be useful... I certainly wasn't polled, infact I've rarely been polled for anything, then I don't really go looking for them.
___________

mpg said:
"As far as war I fail to see how unarmed civilians being shot to death while one marine is yelling at them to stop their car and another is yelling at them to move it is not murder but reasonable. I fail to see how being kidnapped in a Nazi storm trooper type raid, dragged from your home to a secret prison to be deprived of food and water while being beaten for nothing until you expire of a stress induced heart attack is not murder but reasonable.

I fail to see how life in prison is less favorable than execution when execution makes the state as bad as the criminal."

Whether the reasons are valid or not is debatable, but at least reasons are given and there IS a debate.

The reasons arn't good enough for me just like the reason I gave you for why I think abortion should be legal wasn't good enough for you. But if you want more reasons why people think abortions should be legal read on...

Mother doesn't want the child because she was raped.
Mother doesn't want the child because she doesn't know who the father is.
Mother doesn't want the child because it would get in the way of her career.
Mother doesn't want the child because she can't afford to take care of a baby.
Mother doesn't want the child because she's an evil person and hates babies.

I'm sure there are as many reasons as there are people. If you can't see that and if you can't acknowledge that there IS just as much of a debate for these reasons as there are for war and the death penalty then maybe you don't belong period.
 
"Oh I just don't belong? Well Martha, I've got a computer and an opinion. Therefore I do."

You don't know what this thread is about.
________________

"So you think making abortion a crime wouldn't give rise to more crime and in turn higher taxes and health care costs?"

I never said that.
________________

"I think that's a lie. Proof please."

The AMA said it a few years ago. I realize that that's not proof, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
________________

"Source of poll and where most of poll was done, how many participants and when would be useful... I certainly wasn't polled, infact I've rarely been polled for anything, then I don't really go looking for them."

I heard it on the radio. It's not important.
________________

"Mother doesn't want the child because she was raped.
Mother doesn't want the child because she doesn't know who the father is.
Mother doesn't want the child because it would get in the way of her career.
Mother doesn't want the child because she can't afford to take care of a baby.
Mother doesn't want the child because she's an evil person and hates babies."

Do any of those justify cold blooded murder?
 
mpg said:
"Oh I just don't belong? Well Martha, I've got a computer and an opinion. Therefore I do."

You don't know what this thread is about.
________________

"So you think making abortion a crime wouldn't give rise to more crime and in turn higher taxes and health care costs?"

I never said that.
________________

"I think that's a lie. Proof please."

The AMA said it a few years ago. I realize that that's not proof, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
________________

"Source of poll and where most of poll was done, how many participants and when would be useful... I certainly wasn't polled, infact I've rarely been polled for anything, then I don't really go looking for them."

I heard it on the radio. It's not important.
________________

"Mother doesn't want the child because she was raped.
Mother doesn't want the child because she doesn't know who the father is.
Mother doesn't want the child because it would get in the way of her career.
Mother doesn't want the child because she can't afford to take care of a baby.
Mother doesn't want the child because she's an evil person and hates babies."

Do any of those justify cold blooded murder?

see, here is where I am having a hard time now...I am not understanding what the point of this thread is...are you just looking for a place for a bunch of pro life pro liars to sit around and talk about how bad abortion is...or are you seeking out honest debate on the abortion topic...and if the spirit of the thread is the morality of murder, then why pick abortion as the murder topic...and most importantly, why make such subjective assertions like the one I emboldened above?:confused:
 
jallman said:
see, here is where I am having a hard time now...I am not understanding what the point of this thread is...are you just looking for a place for a bunch of pro life pro liars to sit around and talk about how bad abortion is...or are you seeking out honest debate on the abortion topic...and if the spirit of the thread is the morality of murder, then why pick abortion as the murder topic...and most importantly, why make such subjective assertions like the one I emboldened above?:confused:

I'll repeat myself AGAIN. Some people believe that a fetus is part of a woman's body, and therefore abortion isn't murder. Even though I disagree, I find that point of view to be totally reasonable. However, there's a separate group of people who believe that abrtion IS murder, yet they think that it should be legal. THOSE are the people that I want to hear from. Understand?
 
mpg said:
You don't know what this thread is about.

I think that's a lie. Proof please."

The AMA said it a few years ago. I realize that that's not proof, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

"Mother doesn't want the child because she was raped.
Mother doesn't want the child because she doesn't know who the father is.
Mother doesn't want the child because it would get in the way of her career.
Mother doesn't want the child because she can't afford to take care of a baby.
Mother doesn't want the child because she's an evil person and hates babies."

Do any of those justify cold blooded murder?

Sure I know what this thread is about. You are asking people who believe that abortion is murder why they also believe abortion should be legal. I've never said that I believe abortion isn't murder in all cases. Infact, I believe that it is after a certain point in fetal developement. I am trying to explain to you why I think abortion should be legal in all aspects but it seems you don't really want my opinion because you don't agree with it. You keep replying to me and I keep replying to you... However, this will be my last attempt to get through to you so bear with me please.

Here is something that backs up what I said about partial birth abortion;

Why Are D&X Procedures Performed?
This is a topic that is rarely discussed during public debates:

1st Trimester: D&Xs are not performed during the first three months of pregnancy, because there are better ways to perform abortions. There is no need to follow a D&X procedure, because the fetus' head quite small at this stage of gestation and can be quite easily removed from the woman's uterus.
2nd Trimester: D&Xs are very rarely performed in the late second trimester at a time in the pregnancy before the fetus is viable. These, like most abortions, are performed for a variety of reasons, including: She is not ready to have a baby for whatever reason and has delayed her decision to have an abortion into the second trimester. As mentioned above, 90% of abortions are done in the first trimester.
There are mental or physical health problems related to the pregnancy.
The fetus has been found to be dead, badly malformed, or suffering from a very serious genetic defect. This is often only detectable late in the second trimester.

3rd Trimester: They are also very rarely performed in late pregnancy. The most common justifications at that time are: The fetus is dead.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would place the woman's life in severe danger.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would grievously damage the woman's health and/or disable her.
The fetus is so malformed that it can never gain consciousness and will die shortly after birth. Many which fall into this category have developed a very severe form of hydrocephalus.

In addition, some physicians violate their state medical association's regulations and perform elective D&X procedures - primarily on women who are suicidally depressed.


Here is the link to it's source;

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba1.htm

For the latter part of our discussion; The first reason I gave is is very good justification to have an abortion. If my wife was raped and was impregnated with the rapist's child I would not want that child to breath the air neither would my wife and I doubt, if you have a wife, you would either.

The rest are superficial I agree but they are reasons and you wanted them.
 
mpg said:
I'll repeat myself AGAIN. Some people believe that a fetus is part of a woman's body, and therefore abortion isn't murder. Even though I disagree, I find that point of view to be totally reasonable. However, there's a separate group of people who believe that abrtion IS murder, yet they think that it should be legal. THOSE are the people that I want to hear from. Understand?

Well fortunately for all of us and unfortunate for you, these threads are all open forums where anyone can weigh in. You posed a question with a biased slant and of course people are going to rally against the insinuated attack. Besides, where is this proof that people who see it as murder think it is still ok? I would be very interested to see numbers, statistics and not just some random digit you pulled out of your head. References please.

Understand?
 
Saboteur said:
Sure I know what this thread is about. You are asking people who believe that abortion is murder why they also believe abortion should be legal. I've never said that I believe abortion isn't murder in all cases. Infact, I believe that it is after a certain point in fetal developement. I am trying to explain to you why I think abortion should be legal in all aspects but it seems you don't really want my opinion because you don't agree with it. You keep replying to me and I keep replying to you... However, this will be my last attempt to get through to you so bear with me please.

Here is something that backs up what I said about partial birth abortion;

Why Are D&X Procedures Performed?
This is a topic that is rarely discussed during public debates:

1st Trimester: D&Xs are not performed during the first three months of pregnancy, because there are better ways to perform abortions. There is no need to follow a D&X procedure, because the fetus' head quite small at this stage of gestation and can be quite easily removed from the woman's uterus.
2nd Trimester: D&Xs are very rarely performed in the late second trimester at a time in the pregnancy before the fetus is viable. These, like most abortions, are performed for a variety of reasons, including: She is not ready to have a baby for whatever reason and has delayed her decision to have an abortion into the second trimester. As mentioned above, 90% of abortions are done in the first trimester.
There are mental or physical health problems related to the pregnancy.
The fetus has been found to be dead, badly malformed, or suffering from a very serious genetic defect. This is often only detectable late in the second trimester.

3rd Trimester: They are also very rarely performed in late pregnancy. The most common justifications at that time are: The fetus is dead.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would place the woman's life in severe danger.
The fetus is alive, but continued pregnancy would grievously damage the woman's health and/or disable her.
The fetus is so malformed that it can never gain consciousness and will die shortly after birth. Many which fall into this category have developed a very severe form of hydrocephalus.

In addition, some physicians violate their state medical association's regulations and perform elective D&X procedures - primarily on women who are suicidally depressed.


Here is the link to it's source;

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba1.htm

For the latter part of our discussion; The first reason I gave is is very good justification to have an abortion. If my wife was raped and was impregnated with the rapist's child I would not want that child to breath the air neither would my wife and I doubt, if you have a wife, you would either.

The rest are superficial I agree but they are reasons and you wanted them.

Is every abortion thread a wide open discussion about abortion? Can't the thread starter (me) choose a more specific topic to discuss?
 
jallman said:
Well fortunately for all of us and unfortunate for you, these threads are all open forums where anyone can weigh in. You posed a question with a biased slant and of course people are going to rally against the insinuated attack. Besides, where is this proof that people who see it as murder think it is still ok? I would be very interested to see numbers, statistics and not just some random digit you pulled out of your head. References please.

Understand?

The statistics that I mentioned aren't significant.
 
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