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Should Soldiers Be Considered Heros?

OscarB63

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No way I would ever go the Comissioned route, far to many politics for me to even consider.

Although I would not turn down a Warrent. Same pay, less BS.



Yea, there are. I served from 1983-1993 (USMC, Infantry), then again from 2007-2012 (Army, Air Defense). Still in the Reserves. And would go active again tomorrow given the chance.

I was air defense from 2000-2005. got my commission as an ADA (PATRIOT) officer. then they converted my unit into MPs. I got logistics qualified, so thought technically I am an MP, I've been logistics officer at the BN or DIV level since '08. les BS in the log world because nobody wants to screw with the guys who feed them.
 

apdst

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folks should be made aware of these risks, before signing on the doted line.

Might scare people out of enlisting, if you make it sound too bad. Conscription may be necessary, if recruitment fell off too much.
 

TheLastIndependent

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get some college and get a commission. they pay officers much better than enlisted. of course, you have a lot more responsibility and have to put up with a lot more BS

I am planning on receiving a NROTC scholarship for the Marine Corps to be an engineer. Got my fingers crossed
 

LibertyBurns

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I quite clearly said "major groups" before I listed those. I was not going to try and list every single one of the dozens of groups involved.

You completely missed the point of what I wrote. I was just stating that the Moro people were apart of the different Sultanates. You said the Moro and the Sulu Sultanate were seperate, correct? Which is false, you could have said that some of the Moro nobles did not abide by the Sulu Sultans peace treaty.

But this was not any single kind of rebellion like the US Revolution was. Think of the chaos of 1920's Germany, and you might start to get an idea. With dozens of groups all trying to rise to power.

Your correct, it wasn't a single rebellion, it was seperate conflicts in a region. Germany's situation was different from the Philippine situation.

The Philippine Insurrections were a serious of many groups, extending back to the reign of Spain, and continuing for about a decade. The rebels were generally local groups, fighting in their own areas against any US or Government forces that they saw as standing in their way. The Morro Rebellion was simply the longest of them, so some make the mistake of thinking they are seperate.

Your contradicting yourself right here, can you see where? Rebels were local groups fighting in their areas, also there were multiple rebel groups doing this, each with their own agenda. This is what I would classify as seperate.

But if the rebels of had their way, there would be no "Philippines" today. Instead you would have dozens of micro-countries, all fighting with each other.

What made you draw this conclusion? I could say the opposite, maybe their wouldn't be religious strife there now if there was a seperate islamic state. Africa is a good example against your train of thought. Multiple states in africa were drawn up by europeans, was this a good thing? They just threw a bunch of people with different cultures, languages, and religions together, even putting enemies together, also at the same time splitting people of the same tribes with national borders. This has caused more problems than if they would have had micro nations, in my opinion that is.

And if you are not sure why we were there, you should really go back even further and read about the Spanish-American War then.

I know the reasons why american people supported war. But that doesn't mean the politicians didn't have their own agenda, which became obvious in the near future.

Spain was not a kind overlord to their colonies, and the Philippines of that era were in no way unified.One of the standard practices of Spain was concentration camps. Round up entire regions, and put them in "Concentration Camps" at night. Then anybody out in the fields or jungles at night was an enemy and you shot them.That is why we got into the war in the first place, getting their Pacific colonies was something that happened, we were not trying to gain them at all.

No, Spain was not kind... Neither were the other European empires... We weren't trying to gain them? We just accidently did, then they fought us, just as they did with Spain for independence Lol...

And much like Iraq, Weimar Germany, or many other situations, you then had groups pop up all wanting to control of the area.

You are all over the place ;) These are different from the Philippines...

What should we have done, left them to kill each other off in a dozen year or more of internal bloodshed like Yugoslavia did?

Completely different than the Philippines. Just because conflicts have similar attributes do not mistake them all for being the same. This is another example why you shouldn't throw a bunch of ethnic or religious groups in the same country without individual liberties.

You are trying to put modern thoughts and beliefs into an era more then 100 years ago, and that is a huge mistake for anybody to do.

What are you talking about?
 

Oozlefinch

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You completely missed the point of what I wrote. I was just stating that the Moro people were apart of the different Sultanates. You said the Moro and the Sulu Sultanate were seperate, correct? Which is false, you could have said that some of the Moro nobles did not abide by the Sulu Sultans peace treaty.

I am not going to get into some kind of nit-picking semantics game here with you. Not only is it horribly off topic, it is a pointless exercise.
 

LibertyBurns

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I am not going to get into some kind of nit-picking semantics game here with you. Not only is it horribly off topic, it is a pointless exercise.

It is off topic, I don't know why you even brought it up. I'm just not gonna let some butcher history to prove something. Which I still never could grasp the point you were trying to make.
 

Darrell

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he·ro
   [heer-oh] Show IPA

noun, plural he·roes; for 5 also he·ros.
1.
a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2.
a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.

3.
the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.

4.
Classical Mythology .
a.
a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.

b.
(in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.

c.
(in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

5.
hero sandwich.
I think most soldiers from diffrent countries fall under this, not just the United States. It takes alot of balls to run straight into gunfire. Hell, look at D-day. They were dead before they hit the beach.
 

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get some college and get a commission. they pay officers much better than enlisted. of course, you have a lot more responsibility and have to put up with a lot more BS

I don't think 'some college' does it. I think all of the services require a BA for commissioned officers now. In the Navy you could, with enough experience, become a warrant officer without a BA and even an LDO (Limited Duty Officer), who I served with during Vietnam. They were 0-3's, but not line officers. All the ones I knew were Engineers.

You are correct about the responsibility and the BS, however.
 

OscarB63

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I don't think 'some college' does it. I think all of the services require a BA for commissioned officers now. In the Navy you could, with enough experience, become a warrant officer without a BA and even an LDO (Limited Duty Officer), who I served with during Vietnam. They were 0-3's, but not line officers. All the ones I knew were Engineers.

You are correct about the responsibility and the BS, however.

the army only requires 60 semester hours to apply for OCS. 90 hours to get commissioned. you must complete your degree before you are eligible to be promoted to Captain.
 

cpgrad08

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get some college and get a commission. they pay officers much better than enlisted. of course, you have a lot more responsibility and have to put up with a lot more BS

That may be true, but I had an awesome time in the enlisted ranks. Alot less politics.
 

OscarB63

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That may be true, but I had an awesome time in the enlisted ranks. Alot less politics.

as did I, but I have had much more fun as an officer. I just refuse to play the politics.
 

cpgrad08

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You may not consider all soldiers as heroes. We are all human there have been some very terrible things done by soldiers in and out of the uniform, but you have to to respect the face they put on the uniform weather it be peace time or war, of free will or drafted. They did what few have done. To me all military Members of the USA that have served honorably and lived honorable lives in the civilian world are hero.

Here is a nice little tribute to those that fought in WW1.

 

Miguel17

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Some soldiers are heroes. After all, even the soldiers that fight in our misguided and/or immoral wars (like every war since 1941-1945) are not to blame for the war itself. Many noble and brave men and women have fought in the Afghan and Iraqi Wars which we never should have been involved in. But they are not to blame; they are merely pawns in the cynical games of Pentagon warmongers and imbecilic politicians.

Of course, the people that actually join the armed forces are rarely our best and brightest, at least in intellectual terms. They should be pitied, not scorned, for their duped role in the machinations of sinister agents.
 

cpgrad08

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Some soldiers are heroes. After all, even the soldiers that fight in our misguided and/or immoral wars (like every war since 1941-1945) are not to blame for the war itself. Many noble and brave men and women have fought in the Afghan and Iraqi Wars which we never should have been involved in. But they are not to blame; they are merely pawns in the cynical games of Pentagon warmongers and imbecilic politicians.

Of course, the people that actually join the armed forces are rarely our best and brightest, at least in intellectual terms. They should be pitied, not scorned, for their duped role in the machinations of sinister agents.

Hope you show some facts on this before degrading the intelligent level of the armed forces. I don't need the pity of someone that clearly lacking the intelligence department.
 

Miguel17

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Hope you show some facts on this before degrading the intelligent level of the armed forces. I don't need the pity of someone that clearly lacking the intelligence department.

I will be sure to show some facts on this before degrading the intelligent [sic] level of the armed forces [sic]. I'm sure you don't need the pity of someone that [sic] clearly lacking the [sic] intellegence [sic] department.

Sorry, I couldn't help it. When you attack someone else's intelligence you should probably utilize proper grammar and spelling.

Anyways, I would never degrade the intelligence of those who serve in our armed forces. "Intellectual" is different from "intelligent. Being smart is different from being intellectual. I assume I don't need to tell you about the difference.

The men and women in our armed forces are no doubt as intelligent as anyone else. However, their intellectual level is certainly an issue of debate. Just as a construction worker and teacher are likely just as intelligent, but differ in terms of intellect. If you want more reading on this subject, study H. Gardner's "Multiple Intelligences." That should clear it all up for you.
 

Oozlefinch

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the army only requires 60 semester hours to apply for OCS. 90 hours to get commissioned. you must complete your degree before you are eligible to be promoted to Captain.

Unless it changed again, that requirement jumped to 90.

I had a friend who was putting together a packet about 2 years ago. And while it was between differing levels of approval, the requirement jumped and the packet was returned to him as ineligable.
 

Oozlefinch

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Of course, the people that actually join the armed forces are rarely our best and brightest, at least in intellectual terms. They should be pitied, not scorned, for their duped role in the machinations of sinister agents.

Sorry, that is complete BS.

The military has almost 100% High School diplomas.

The military has a significantly higher average of individuals with degrees then the general population.

Most people I served with were significantly smarter then most civilians I know.

For example, my first ASVAB GT score (which is normally lower then your IQ score) was a 136. When I retook the test in 2006, it was 142 (max is 160). And most of the people I served with had scores that were in the upper 90's or triple digits. I have worked for Staff Sergeants who were working on finishing their MBAs, and with Specialists with degrees in everything from Nursing and Electronics to Criminology and Political Science.

Yes, I know that it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to imagine us all to be stupid morons who only grunt, scratch our genitals and shoot people. But that is not the reality of it at all.
 

Oozlefinch

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The men and women in our armed forces are no doubt as intelligent as anyone else. However, their intellectual level is certainly an issue of debate. Just as a construction worker and teacher are likely just as intelligent, but differ in terms of intellect. If you want more reading on this subject, study H. Gardner's "Multiple Intelligences." That should clear it all up for you.

OK, interesting, a biased modification.

Well my friend, I like to think I am both an intelligent and intellectual individual. And along with a great many others I knew in the service, I am also a reading addict. I devour anything from technical manuals and computer references to history and sci-fi novels. Normally covering several books a week for pleasure. I am also highly proficient at both researching things, as well as analyizing them to determine if the information is actually accurate (and not the opinion or propaganda of the individual who wrote it).

If you read through my posts in here for the last several years, I think you will find I am articulate, write clearly, and tend to be both cool headed and dispasionate about what I write. Am I an "intellectual"?

Oh, and at the age of 47, I am finally taking the time to work on a degree. And about 1/3 of my classmates are also veterans.

And interesting that you point out Howard Gardner, the guy that claims that there is no intelligence, and that IQ tests are bogus. Most researchers who have studied his theories have pretty much universally rejected them.

I guess they are not intelligent enough to understand them, eh?
 

Miguel17

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Sorry, that is complete BS.
Yes, I know that it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to imagine us all to be stupid morons who only grunt, scratch our genitals and shoot people. But that is not the reality of it at all.

Yes, because that is precisely what I said. Full score on reading comprehension for you.
 

Miguel17

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OK, interesting, a biased modification.

Well my friend, I like to think I am both an intelligent and intellectual individual. And along with a great many others I knew in the service, I am also a reading addict. I devour anything from technical manuals and computer references to history and sci-fi novels. Normally covering several books a week for pleasure. I am also highly proficient at both researching things, as well as analyizing them to determine if the information is actually accurate (and not the opinion or propaganda of the individual who wrote it).

If you read through my posts in here for the last several years, I think you will find I am articulate, write clearly, and tend to be both cool headed and dispasionate about what I write. Am I an "intellectual"?

Oh, and at the age of 47, I am finally taking the time to work on a degree. And about 1/3 of my classmates are also veterans.

And interesting that you point out Howard Gardner, the guy that claims that there is no intelligence, and that IQ tests are bogus. Most researchers who have studied his theories have pretty much universally rejected them.

I guess they are not intelligent enough to understand them, eh?

If by "modification," you mean specification, then yes. I am glad for you as intelligent and intellectual. I couldn't be happier for you. None of this has anything to do with my point, but I'm glad nonetheless that you can bask in your own glory.

Gardner's rejection of IQ is mostly based on the defunct Stanford-Binet model, which has been discredited for decades. And when you say researchers have rejected his findings, I have to give you a brief disclaimer about academia. (Discredited=unpopular).
 
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Sarcogito

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OK, now here I need to describe how I actually think and believe. I have already stated this once, but let me be a bit more clear in case some missed it.

I consider all of those who knowingly take a job that may place themselves into harms way to be "heroes". Be they firefighters, forestry department smoke jumpers, law enforcement, military, EMT, even medical personnel (especially those that work with groups like the CDC).

However, that is "heroes", pleural, lower case. These are the people that like in Aurora the other day, rush into dangerous situations when all others are trying to run away. The ones that rush to help individuals in Mississippi and Louisianna when a major hurricane sweaps through the region.

But is every one of them a "Hero"? No, not at all. A Hero is a specific individual who goes far beyond that, and falls into another category alltogether. The Navy Corpsman who rushes repeatedly into harms way to drag an injured Jarhead from enemy fire. A cop who rushes into a darkened theatre where scores of individuals have been shot, and knowing that the person reported inside was wearing body armor and has a semiautomatic rifle. A firefighter who ignores the flames licking up around a car and down his arm because he must get an injured person out before it is engulfed in flames.

So do I consider all members of the military as a "Hero"? No, but all are "heroes" in my book.

I think the more common word for your lower case "hero" is "noble".
 

MarineTpartier

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Some soldiers are heroes. After all, even the soldiers that fight in our misguided and/or immoral wars (like every war since 1941-1945) are not to blame for the war itself. Many noble and brave men and women have fought in the Afghan and Iraqi Wars which we never should have been involved in. But they are not to blame; they are merely pawns in the cynical games of Pentagon warmongers and imbecilic politicians.

Of course, the people that actually join the armed forces are rarely our best and brightest, at least in intellectual terms. They should be pitied, not scorned, for their duped role in the machinations of sinister agents.

Yeah, you're right. We're stupid. Meanwhile, today in my Laser Safety Officer course, I had to learn advanced trig and calculus in about 3 hours so I could compute the safety buffer, laser type, and range size to put around a firing range so that my fellow Marines won't get their cornea's burnt out of their eyes. Or, how about earlier today when I took my Radiation Safety Officer test consisting of 4 different Federal codes to decipher along with Dept of the Navy orders and Marine Corps Orders, AP algebra to calculate the amount of tritium gas in a Lensatic compass after it had degraded 2 half lives, and learning a little anatomy to figure out what exactly radiation does to the body. And after only having the material for one night to study it resulting in a 97 on the test. All that with a GED and a GT score of only 109. Yep, I'm stupid. Oh, by the way, no one in my class of 30 failed that test today either.
 

lpast

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Yeah, you're right. We're stupid. Meanwhile, today in my Laser Safety Officer course, I had to learn advanced trig and calculus in about 3 hours so I could compute the safety buffer, laser type, and range size to put around a firing range so that my fellow Marines won't get their cornea's burnt out of their eyes. Or, how about earlier today when I took my Radiation Safety Officer test consisting of 4 different Federal codes to decipher along with Dept of the Navy orders and Marine Corps Orders, AP algebra to calculate the amount of tritium gas in a Lensatic compass after it had degraded 2 half lives, and learning a little anatomy to figure out what exactly radiation does to the body. And after only having the material for one night to study it resulting in a 97 on the test. All that with a GED and a GT score of only 109. Yep, I'm stupid. Oh, by the way, no one in my class of 30 failed that test today either.

Marine, Ive learned long ago to not post in threads like this....you have to keep in mind your mostly conversing with people that have never served or are very outdated on military issues...like me....Troops today are far smarter than we were in the 60s...the military does not babysit duds anymore...you either perform and are able to do your job or you get the boot...The military is far more technical, with far more technical weaponry and requires alot more brainpower than it did. Today our troops are the best of the best and top notch....but the average DUMBASS wont know that and we still spout moron comments...so the best approach is to avoid these threads...
 

MarineTpartier

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Marine, Ive learned long ago to not post in threads like this....you have to keep in mind your mostly conversing with people that have never served or are very outdated on military issues...like me....Troops today are far smarter than we were in the 60s...the military does not babysit duds anymore...you either perform and are able to do your job or you get the boot...The military is far more technical, with far more technical weaponry and requires alot more brainpower than it did. Today our troops are the best of the best and top notch....but the average DUMBASS wont know that and we still spout moron comments...so the best approach is to avoid these threads...

I tend to agree with you on this. However, the average moron won't know that stuff unless they are told. If they still want to maintain their stance, then there's nothing I can do about that.
 

lpast

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I tend to agree with you on this. However, the average moron won't know that stuff unless they are told. If they still want to maintain their stance, then there's nothing I can do about that.

Your still involved marine...and therefore more passionate im sure...Im long removed and admittedly outdated...I do talk to many young recent vets but its not the same. The totally ignorant that make insulting statements about the military and those that serve still piss's me off...they need to take a walk around a veterans hospital....and/or stfu
 
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