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Should Soldiers Be Considered Heros?

I am, however, wondering where your post addresses the question put in the OP. Is it your opinion that anyone who serves in the military, irrespective of heroic deeds, should thereby be considered a hero?

Actually, the OP is a trollish type individual, who makes a post that looks like one thing, and quickly turns into an attack. And this was quickly shown in that he obviously holds the military in contempt. This OP was nothing but a drive-by troll. Comes in, stirs up some garbage then departs, likely never to be seen again.

Although I suspect who this might actually be, some individuals creating multiple accounts to seem that their viewpoint has more backers is not unheard of.
 
Actually, the OP is a trollish type individual, who makes a post that looks like one thing, and quickly turns into an attack. And this was quickly shown in that he obviously holds the military in contempt. This OP was nothing but a drive-by troll. Comes in, stirs up some garbage then departs, likely never to be seen again.

Although I suspect who this might actually be, some individuals creating multiple accounts to seem that their viewpoint has more backers is not unheard of.

Fair comment (assuming he does that,) but do you consider all deployed military personnel as heroes, or do you agree with those who hold that only those who have performed heroic deeds, often at great cost to themselves, are worthy of that descriptor?

In my society, the military are almost invisible - except on ceremonial occasions, such as the trooping of the colours. We know that our military are deployed overseas, and sometimes have to do a difficult job, but we take the view that ours is a professional army, and those who choose that career do so in the full knowledge of what it involves. So, while an officer, or OR, who has been wounded while operational is treated with respect and consideration, someone who has merely served overseas is not held in any special regard. They are of course well cared for, especially upon retirement, but are not regarded by British society as anything special. We would never use the term 'hero' with regard to a returned soldier who has not been witnessed doing something inarguably heroic.

I expect it is just another cultural difference between, as George Bernard Shaw put it - "Two peoples divided by a common language." :mrgreen:
 
Actually, nothing against Audie Murphy, but my favorite Army MOH winner will always be Alvin York.

Sergeant York "Over the Top" Battle Scene - YouTube

I don't know. Sitting on top of a burning tank destroyer machine gunning nazis by the score takes some beating. Not the greatest movie ever made, but you get the idea.

[video]http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=tank%20destroyer%20scene%20to%20hell%20and% 20back&tnr=21&vid=5047910053249141&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumb nail.aspx%3Fq%3D5047910053249141%26id%3D472e6f8684 90dc1d689eb4bc9a5e357b%26bid%3Do3QlVQIByvN8LA%26bn %3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.youtube.co m%252fwatch%253fv%253dyTY5BFVcP58&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DyT Y5BFVcP58&sigr=11aef4gsl&newfp=1&tit=The+Ballad+of+Audie+Murphy+Most+Decorated+Sold ier+of+WWII[/video]
 
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Fair comment (assuming he does that,) but do you consider all deployed military personnel as heroes, or do you agree with those who hold that only those who have performed heroic deeds, often at great cost to themselves, are worthy of that descriptor?

OK, now here I need to describe how I actually think and believe. I have already stated this once, but let me be a bit more clear in case some missed it.

I consider all of those who knowingly take a job that may place themselves into harms way to be "heroes". Be they firefighters, forestry department smoke jumpers, law enforcement, military, EMT, even medical personnel (especially those that work with groups like the CDC).

However, that is "heroes", pleural, lower case. These are the people that like in Aurora the other day, rush into dangerous situations when all others are trying to run away. The ones that rush to help individuals in Mississippi and Louisianna when a major hurricane sweaps through the region.

But is every one of them a "Hero"? No, not at all. A Hero is a specific individual who goes far beyond that, and falls into another category alltogether. The Navy Corpsman who rushes repeatedly into harms way to drag an injured Jarhead from enemy fire. A cop who rushes into a darkened theatre where scores of individuals have been shot, and knowing that the person reported inside was wearing body armor and has a semiautomatic rifle. A firefighter who ignores the flames licking up around a car and down his arm because he must get an injured person out before it is engulfed in flames.

So do I consider all members of the military as a "Hero"? No, but all are "heroes" in my book.
 
OK, now here I need to describe how I actually think and believe. I have already stated this once, but let me be a bit more clear in case some missed it.

I consider all of those who knowingly take a job that may place themselves into harms way to be "heroes". Be they firefighters, forestry department smoke jumpers, law enforcement, military, EMT, even medical personnel (especially those that work with groups like the CDC).

However, that is "heroes", pleural, lower case. These are the people that like in Aurora the other day, rush into dangerous situations when all others are trying to run away. The ones that rush to help individuals in Mississippi and Louisianna when a major hurricane sweaps through the region.

But is every one of them a "Hero"? No, not at all. A Hero is a specific individual who goes far beyond that, and falls into another category alltogether. The Navy Corpsman who rushes repeatedly into harms way to drag an injured Jarhead from enemy fire. A cop who rushes into a darkened theatre where scores of individuals have been shot, and knowing that the person reported inside was wearing body armor and has a semiautomatic rifle. A firefighter who ignores the flames licking up around a car and down his arm because he must get an injured person out before it is engulfed in flames.

So do I consider all members of the military as a "Hero"? No, but all are "heroes" in my book.

As my 'like' indicates, I agree with your point of view. I may not utilise your word choices, but I understand what you are saying, and I also, have great respect for the people who do those things. Thank you for your explanation. :)
 
simply having served in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines, does NOT automatically make one a "hero".
 
The glorification of war and the calling our soldiers heroes are completely seperated. War is dirty, blame the government. Soldiers put their lives on the line, call them heroes.

Note: I did not read the posts and this has most likely been said
 
The glorification of war and the calling our soldiers heroes are completely seperated. War is dirty, blame the government. Soldiers put their lives on the line, call them heroes.

Note: I did not read the posts and this has most likely been said

LOL, no offence, but it has. Oozlefinch put it much more subtly a few posts above this one. :lol:

And we need to consider that not all soldiers, sailors, or airmen, put their lives on the line. We need to further consider that the possibility of physical danger is a known factor when they choose that career. This is the same with policemen and firemen - who are seldom considered heroes when in the course of their daily duties.

So basically, do we agree that a military man can only legitimately be considered a hero when he does something indisputably heroic?
 
LOL, no offence, but it has. Oozlefinch put it much more subtly a few posts above this one. :lol:

And we need to consider that not all soldiers, sailors, or airmen, put their lives on the line. We need to further consider that the possibility of physical danger is a known factor when they choose that career. This is the same with policemen and firemen - who are seldom considered heroes when in the course of their daily duties.

So basically, do we agree that a military man can only legitimately be considered a hero when he does something indisputably heroic?

WHo doesn't consider fireman and policemen heroes? Where I am from they are put on a pedastal. 90% of local businesses give special discounts solely to our "local heroes". Yes, soldiers know what they are putting themselves through making them more of heroes. The fairytale heroes are the ones who know how many people the dragon has killed yet go after it anyway. Soldiers are heroes. No, not all soldiers put their lives on the line, but they don't necessarily know that when they sign up. They still put themselves in the hamds of fate for what reward, the relatively small paycheck? Or is it because they know that they are helping to defend 313million people regardless of whether they live to see the next day.

And I was pretty sure that someone had posted what I did but I didn't look past the first page.
 
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WHo doesn't consider fireman and policemen heroes? Where I am from they are put on a pedastal. 90% of local businesses give special discounts solely to our "local heroes".

That I have to question.

Are you aware that in most instances, such "discounts" are a violation of local ordinances? Generally, giving such "discounts" tends to be a violation of "conflict of interest" laws, and if a member of law enforcement accepts them, they can come under an Internal Affairs investigation?

And no, I am not kidding. Years ago when I worked for a major fast food company, we had LAPD IA investigating our store because they found out our manager had a policy of giving free coffee to all officers that came in. It is generally considered "corruption", the same as a bribe. They actually staked out a detective in the dining area every night for about 2 weeks, simply watching if we gave the cops that came in for "Code 7" paid full price for their food and drinks.

And if you think we choose to do these things for a reward, you most likely do not get it at all. I never joined the military for the pay, or for the "perks", or for any reason other then wanting to give back and serve my country. In 15 years of service I have learned 2 worthless job skills, achieved at 47 the knees of a 95 year old, and am still waiting to get the "college benifits" that have been promised to me. But I still serve in the reserve, and will do so until I am forced to retire in another 15 years. Because I honestly enjoy serving my country and the people of it.

Maybe this will explain it for you.

Some people have a "calling". For some, it means joining the clergy and ministering to the spiritual needs of others. For others, it is going into medicine and healing the sick. For still others it is teaching, or auto mechanics, or the press. For me and many others, it is the military (or LEO or fire fighting) because it is what we want to do. Our reward is hoping that something we have done helps make a difference.

If you want to understand how I classify "Heros" and "heroes", look up higher on this page.
 
You can't just say well the soldiers dropped napalm on innocent citizens only because their political leadership told them too. They had a choice.\

follow orders or go to military prison.....some choice
 
And we need to consider that not all soldiers, sailors, or airmen, put their lives on the line. We need to further consider that the possibility of physical danger is a known factor when they choose that career. This is the same with policemen and firemen - who are seldom considered heroes when in the course of their daily duties.

There are many things to consider when discussing if somebody is a "Hero".

First, is if that individual is in a place where they actually have to choose to place themselves in harm's way or not. Odds are, 99.98% of people will never have to make that choice, because the biggest danger they have is a paper cut or putting their hand on a hot grill. Their job has no real "hazards", and there is little risk to them unless something really catastrophic happens.

Most grill chefs can work 40 years, and will never know another person that was killed or seriously injured in a grilling accident.

But ask most firefighters, or LEO, or military. Especially those that have done 10+ years. Odds are they can give you several names of individuals they know who have been seriously injured or killed in the line of duty.

And you never know. A 20 year veteran in the PD may never once draw his gun in the line of duty. But a rookie may be involved in a shootout her first day on the job. A lot of that is simply random dumb luck. But both of them were willing to take that chance when they agreed to take the job. They may spend 18 years taking no more risk then writing speeding tickets. Then the next day they may respond to a bank robbery, and be met with fully automatic AK-47s and individuals wearing full body armor and trauma plates.

This is why I always have given a special nod to such individuals. Because they have knowingly taken on jobs that are very dangerous. And normally for ****ty wage and crappy hours.
 
follow orders or go to military prison.....some choice

Not really a choice.

Now look at when Napalm was used. Generally it has been used by Ground Attack aircraft in responding to a call from a bunch of grunts trapped by enemy fire on the ground. It is not just tossed willy-nille in the hopes of hitting somebody. The Combat Air Controller will be given a very specific coordinate, and told "There are bad guys shooting up a platoon-company-battalion from this location." Then 20 or so minutes later in comes the Air Force-Navy-Marines to lay a bunch of flaming jello on that ridge line-tree line.

It is not just dumping napalm, it is saving a butt-load of your comrades who are generally trapped under hostile fire coming from that location.

Give me that choice, and I will drop the juice every time.
 
Not really a choice.

Now look at when Napalm was used. Generally it has been used by Ground Attack aircraft in responding to a call from a bunch of grunts trapped by enemy fire on the ground. It is not just tossed willy-nille in the hopes of hitting somebody. The Combat Air Controller will be given a very specific coordinate, and told "There are bad guys shooting up a platoon-company-battalion from this location." Then 20 or so minutes later in comes the Air Force-Navy-Marines to lay a bunch of flaming jello on that ridge line-tree line.

It is not just dumping napalm, it is saving a butt-load of your comrades who are generally trapped under hostile fire coming from that location.

Give me that choice, and I will drop the juice every time.

yep. i've been in the military since 1984. desert storm and a couple of tours in iraq. i've had to make decisions and do things that 99% of the population could never dream of. been awarded the bronze star and got a purple heart and I don't consider myself a hero. just doing the job i signed up for to the best of my ability.
 
That I have to question.

Are you aware that in most instances, such "discounts" are a violation of local ordinances? Generally, giving such "discounts" tends to be a violation of "conflict of interest" laws, and if a member of law enforcement accepts them, they can come under an Internal Affairs investigation?

And no, I am not kidding. Years ago when I worked for a major fast food company, we had LAPD IA investigating our store because they found out our manager had a policy of giving free coffee to all officers that came in. It is generally considered "corruption", the same as a bribe. They actually staked out a detective in the dining area every night for about 2 weeks, simply watching if we gave the cops that came in for "Code 7" paid full price for their food and drinks.

And if you think we choose to do these things for a reward, you most likely do not get it at all. I never joined the military for the pay, or for the "perks", or for any reason other then wanting to give back and serve my country. In 15 years of service I have learned 2 worthless job skills, achieved at 47 the knees of a 95 year old, and am still waiting to get the "college benifits" that have been promised to me. But I still serve in the reserve, and will do so until I am forced to retire in another 15 years. Because I honestly enjoy serving my country and the people of it.

Maybe this will explain it for you.

Some people have a "calling". For some, it means joining the clergy and ministering to the spiritual needs of others. For others, it is going into medicine and healing the sick. For still others it is teaching, or auto mechanics, or the press. For me and many others, it is the military (or LEO or fire fighting) because it is what we want to do. Our reward is hoping that something we have done helps make a difference.

If you want to understand how I classify "Heros" and "heroes", look up higher on this page.

I plan on joining the military and it is obviously not for reward because, from my understanding, there is very little materialistic reward. I am doing it because it has been my dream since I was a very small kid.

As to the legallity of the discount, it is done through the Chamber of Commerce in many of the towns in the area. If you sign up they have you give a discount to them and many businesses that aren't a part of the CoC give them anyway.
 
don't like it? don't sign up for the military.

who said I didn't like iy...jusst pointing out the truth. but nice to see you are consistent in attacking me no matter what the topic. keep it up
 
I plan on joining the military and it is obviously not for reward because, from my understanding, there is very little materialistic reward. I am doing it because it has been my dream since I was a very small kid.

As to the legallity of the discount, it is done through the Chamber of Commerce in many of the towns in the area. If you sign up they have you give a discount to them and many businesses that aren't a part of the CoC give them anyway.

get some college and get a commission. they pay officers much better than enlisted. of course, you have a lot more responsibility and have to put up with a lot more BS
 
I meant the general "you". Not you OscarB63.

my apologies then. I'm just glad that there are other people like me who are willing to sign up despite the risks.
 
With the United States not having been invaded since 1812, and millions of civilians having been killed in Vietnam, Korea, and Iraq. We also spend about 750 billion on defense against middle easterners with ak-47s. I am tired of people yelling out ignorantly how we should support our troops. When they fight these useless wars(Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada). All for political gain and also another factor is the military industrial complex. All the companies that build the tanks, body armour, fighter jets, rifles ect... Do you think we should glorify war and our soldiers as hero's?
Define "supporting troops". Does that mean put a yellow ribbon magnet on your car? Does that mean donating your time at the USO? Does that mean bringing a meal to a guy who lost his legs? Does that mean showing up to a paradeo once a year? Does that mean donating money to the Wounded Warriors? What does "support our troops" mean to you LiberalMike? I'm guessing you're a noob who probably won't visit here again. Anyone else want to answer this question?
 
get some college and get a commission. they pay officers much better than enlisted. of course, you have a lot more responsibility and have to put up with a lot more BS

No way I would ever go the Comissioned route, far to many politics for me to even consider.

Although I would not turn down a Warrent. Same pay, less BS.

my apologies then. I'm just glad that there are other people like me who are willing to sign up despite the risks.

Yea, there are. I served from 1983-1993 (USMC, Infantry), then again from 2007-2012 (Army, Air Defense). Still in the Reserves. And would go active again tomorrow given the chance.
 
folks should be made aware of these risks, before signing on the doted line.

Unless an individual has the IQ of a turnip, I can't imagine anybody honestly saying they are not aware that joining the military has a risk of danger along with it.

Heck, people should be glad we are not like the Soviet Army was. They actually expected 5-10% casualties during their training. I remember back in the 1980's watching a video taken of Soviet boot camp. They would have the recruits dig fox holes, instructing them to build them properly. Then they would have them get in and drive tanks over them. If the foxhole was not built correctly, it would collapse on the occupants. And live fire "Single Envelopments" were considered standard to all in their Army.

Such activities are almost unheard of in the US military, because of the extreme danger. Or if done, with such stringent safety requirements that it is about as dangerous as playing with airsoft weapons.
 
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