Should Religious Organizations Pay Property Taxes?

[antiquity]

You're not being charged for just being, you are being charged for owning property. People without property pay no property taxes and they're still "being". Property taxes pay for the services that make owning said property worthwhile, such as infrastructure. If you don't want to pay property taxes, don't own property.

I agree but renting is not an escape from paying property taxes..it just isn't as obvious.

 

[Cephus]

That's an interesting claim. So you think that people who own rental property take property taxes in the chin - choosing to run as a loss - rather than passing the cost of those taxes onto their renters?

The renters indirectly pay the taxes through their rent, the owners pay taxes whether they have anyone occupying the property or not.

 

[Cephus]

I agree but renting is not an escape from paying property taxes..it just isn't as obvious.

No, you are not directly paying it, your rent pays a whole host of costs associated with the upkeep of the property. You're paying for your landlord's dinner too, that doesn't make it a direct cost.

 

[Absentglare]

Generally I think no one should pay property taxes. It's money that you get charged just for being. It's a way of saying "no matter what, we will find you, and we will force you to produce something, so that we can take it away from you".

That being said, among the groups who should least be required to do so, obviously non-profits fall in there.

Most of our hospitals are "non-profit" and yet they are some of the most profitable businesses in this country.

I don't think you understand what "non-profit" means if you make such a ludicrous claim.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The renters indirectly pay the taxes through their rent, the owners pay taxes whether they have anyone occupying the property or not.

Yep, yet the federal income tax code favors the landlord over the tenant.

 

[Cephus]

Yep, yet the federal income tax code favors the landlord over the tenant.

That's because the landlord actually owns the property and the tenant does not.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

they should and in fact are required to if they betray the separation of church and state, such as telling their congregation who and what to vote for and bribing politicians. This is why an atheist group sued the IRS, which was not enforcing its own tax exempt code. You'd think a group as hated as the IRS wouldn't be afraid to tax churches that run afoul of the 1st amendment

i also have serious problem with the premium real estate taken up by churches. I noticed this in chicago, where the property tax is obscene yet here were all these churches operating tax free right next to homes and businesses the city foreclosed on

also there's the matter of fraud, such as the night club that avoided taxes by declaring itself a church

hmm...


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Could you tell me how any of what you are claiming the churches are doing is a violation of the 1st amendment as you claim?

From what I read, the limitations are on the government, not the people.

 

[radcen]

For the most part, this issue always comes down to this...

I'm religious = don't tax them
I'm not religious = tax them

 

[Ikari]

Meh, we've had tax exemptions for religious organizations for some time. I'm not innately against it, though I do think we need to be more careful with what we define to be a religion. Cults, like Scientiology, shouldn't be allowed to obtain "religious" status.

 

[UtahBill]

Property taxes that are for police, fire, etc. protection, yes.....
But only for true non-profit charities. Those that exist primarily to generate a generous income for those that run it, no...

 

[cpwill]

The renters indirectly pay the taxes through their rent, the owners pay taxes whether they have anyone occupying the property or not.

Precisely, but you, oh individual attempting to escape property taxes, you are still paying the piper.

 

[Absentglare]

hmm...


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Could you tell me how any of what you are claiming the churches are doing is a violation of the 1st amendment as you claim?

From what I read, the limitations are on the government, not the people.

Then i think you should brush up on legal precedents resultant from the legal interpretations of the first amendment.

 

[faithful_servant]

they should and in fact are required to if they betray the separation of church and state, such as telling their congregation who and what to vote for and bribing politicians. This is why an atheist group sued the IRS, which was not enforcing its own tax exempt code. You'd think a group as hated as the IRS wouldn't be afraid to tax churches that run afoul of the 1st amendment

i also have serious problem with the premium real estate taken up by churches. I noticed this in chicago, where the property tax is obscene yet here were all these churches operating tax free right next to homes and businesses the city foreclosed on

also there's the matter of fraud, such as the night club that avoided taxes by declaring itself a church

Your separation of church and state argument only holds up if you ignore that the 1st Amendment was intended to keep the State out of the Church and not the other way around.

 

[Cephus]

Precisely, but you, oh individual attempting to escape property taxes, you are still paying the piper.

I'm not attempting to escape anything. I pay my property taxes every year. Not sure which ass you yanked that one out of. But the idea that because some of the money that renters pay goes to pay property taxes, that they are, themselves, paying property taxes, is ridiculous. That's like saying your employer is paying your property taxes because some of the money they pay you goes for that purpose. Being a landlord is a job. That rent is their paycheck. They use money from their paycheck to pay their expenses, whatever they are. Are you unaware of this?

 

[faithful_servant]

Yep. They should also pay income taxes, just like every other business/individual in the country. The "religious exemption" loophole in tax laws, although created for altruistic reasons, has created massive tax fraud since just about any group can claim to be a religion, and partake of these benefits.

Then deal with the criminals and stop attacking the innocent...

 

[Cephus]

Your separation of church and state argument only holds up if you ignore that the 1st Amendment was intended to keep the State out of the Church and not the other way around.

No, it works both ways. The state has no undue influence over the church and the church has no undue influence over the state. Keep your idiotic beliefs out of our secular government.

 

[faithful_servant]

I'd be fine with that. But better yet, only allow tax exemption for demonstrable charitable work, not administrative costs. Apply it to everyone.

Why?? Without the administrative efforts, the charitable efforts don't happen.

 

[Cephus]

Why?? Without the administrative efforts, the charitable efforts don't happen.

It's a cost of doing business. There is a difference between having an office somewhere and having a gold-encrusted church. If you want to do tax-exempt charitable work, go with the most economically feasible offices you can get. Otherwise, pay your damn taxes like everyone else.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Then i think you should brush up on legal precedents resultant from the legal interpretations of the first amendment.

Or you could link it and show me instead of expecting me to take the word of the likes of you, sir.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Should Religious Organizations Pay Property Taxes?

As a good socialist and by extension a supporter of unions, do you also support unions losing their tax exempt status?

 

[faithful_servant]

No, it works both ways. The state has no undue influence over the church and the church has no undue influence over the state. Keep your idiotic beliefs out of our secular government.

Not according to the Constitution...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

But maybe I missed the part where the 1st addresses what a Church is allowed to do and/or forbidden from doing... So could you highlight that part for us, so that we can be enlightened...

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Your separation of church and state argument only holds up if you ignore that the 1st Amendment was intended to keep the State out of the Church and not the other way around.

Actually, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion


They can't establish a church of america....


or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Nor stop churches from practicing their beliefs.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

No, it works both ways. The state has no undue influence over the church and the church has no undue influence over the state. Keep your idiotic beliefs out of our secular government.

What's interesting is that we have all sorts of secular non-profits that lobby and try to influence our government. How is a church any different?

 

[faithful_servant]

It's a cost of doing business. There is a difference between having an office somewhere and having a gold-encrusted church. If you want to do tax-exempt charitable work, go with the most economically feasible offices you can get. Otherwise, pay your damn taxes like everyone else.

That's why a Church isn't a business and shouldn't be treated as such. I agree that the Church has been far too focused on image over effectiveness, but that doesn't mean that you or any one else gets to decide how to "punish" them for it.

 

[cpwill]

I'm not attempting to escape anything.

The problem I am highlighting is that property taxes make it impossible to escape paying into the system. You can't live on your own, you can't just be on your own, no matter what, the state is going to force you to pay out.

I pay my property taxes every year. Not sure which ass you yanked that one out of.

I started thinking about the different kinds of taxes, and what they meant and what was best years ago. Property taxes, like wealth taxes (to which they are closely related) are among the worst forms of taxation out there.

But the idea that because some of the money that renters pay goes to pay property taxes, that they are, themselves, paying property taxes, is ridiculous.

No, that's what you call "economics". Economists similarly tend to agree that the "employer portion" of the payroll tax comes out of the employee's pay, and that business taxes such as VATs are passed on to the consumer.