Should Public Schooling Go Online?

[psikeyhackr]

That depends entirely on the student.

Exactly!

I can't speak to lower education, but in higher education, for an institute to be and to remain accredited, it must meet the governing bodies' standards, and those accrediting agencies scrutinize online courses. When I developed the online version of my course in 1998, the directive was that it had to mirror the chalk-and-talk one, and it did. In fact, it was better in some regards.

What subject?

 

[Slyfox696]

There seems to be a great deal of truth to the

‘Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.’​

among our ‘certified’ public school K-12 (unionized) teachers and/or school administrators.

There's not. That's just a lazy way for people to illustrate how little they understand the profession of education.

I’m not saying that there are not quite a few good teachers, but the tendency to blame the quality of the students for the ‘need’ to accept social promotion is 100% BS. We should never be handing out HS diplomas to folks who can’t master 8th grade material just because they have ‘participated in’ (attended?) higher level classes.

So what's the better solution? Have 19 year olds in 8th grade? How do you think that would affect the educational environment for the 13 year olds in the 8th grade? Are you going to expel the students who don't master 8th grade material? That's prohibited by law. What solution do you have?

American public schools are failing. Period.

No, not period. American society is failing. American public schools, in so so so many cases, are exceeding far beyond what is reasonably expected.

Are there bad schools and bad teachers? Of course. We all know that. But, on the whole, public education does a far better job than can be reasonably expected.

And many completely failed at "virtual" education as has been proven during Covid shut downs.

The teacher cannot make a student do their homework if the student is not in school. The failure at virtual education resides with the parents, not the educational system.

I firmly stand in the "vouchers" camp - enable parents to pick which form of education works best for their child, and allow the funding to follow the student.

The funding will eventually wind up with the best schools and the others will close their doors.

And when the students who don't care about school, who are there as a babysitting service, or to participate in gang activities, or to sell drugs, or whatever...where are those kids going to go to school once the school they were in closes their doors? Do you really not see how silly this simplistic notion of school choice is?

Virtual education failed in my district because many parents didn’t have the basic computer skills to get their child online with their teacher. Or they just didn’t care.

The bolded, mostly.

I watched a half-hearted attempt at "virtual" from March - June 2020. It was poorly planned and executed.

Poorly planned...is that because there was not time to plan since covid starting shutting schools in March? I'm sure it was poorly planned, since there was essentially no time to plan.

All we have to do is change school from child daycare and indoctrination camps to actual institutes of education. If a student chronically misbehaves, kick them out.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to kick a child out, under existing laws? Especially if they have an IEP?

Have standards and if a student doesn't pass them, make them repeat the grade.

So you want 19 year old students in with 13 year old students?

Stop passing sub-par performance. If they put as much effort into teaching math, reading, ect. as they did into diversity and social justice bullshit we wouldn't be in this situation.

Such an uninformed statement.

 

[PirateMk1]

Socialization?

Children need to learn how to be adults this is done best by interacting with adults, children learning socialization skills from other children is akin to a Lord of the Flies situation.

 

[Slyfox696]

It would’ve worked out just fine if we lived in a place where most parents were educated, had the time and knew or were willing to learn basic computer skills.

You can say that about nearly all forms of education. But since it is rare to have a significant majority who fall into this category...

And that's the point. The public school system failed at providing ACTUAL virtual education. They went to "zoom" and attempted to simply broadcast the "tradition" in person learning model "online" which was a failure for many students.

Yes, because, again, there was virtually zero time to plan for online education. In November 2019, no one thought that in 16 weeks, schools would be closed, in some cases for over a year. So schools were desperately scrambling to do the best they could with the limited time and financial resources they had available.

Online academies, etc. do much more than "zoom". They have a platform that is successful and has been for years.

LOL.

We have students in our districts who do some of these online programs. They are a poor replacement for actual in-class teaching. However, for some students who lack interest and motivation in education, it is a better option than them failing out.

Yep, but basing any plan on that (small? bolded above) assumption should have been a non-starter. A zoom meeting with 25+ people is not likely to work well even if all 25+ participants had been ‘fully trained’ by the administration staff.

What would you have done differently with roughly 4 weeks to plan and most of your financial resources already spoken for?

 

[BirdinHand]

You can say that about nearly all forms of education. But since it is rare to have a significant majority who fall into this category...

Yes, because, again, there was virtually zero time to plan for online education. In November 2019, no one thought that in 16 weeks, schools would be closed, in some cases for over a year. So schools were desperately scrambling to do the best they could with the limited time and financial resources they had available.

I get it. You're a public school teacher. You're probably also part of a teacher's union.

Public school is antiquated. They are failing. They are falling behind the global curve. It is time to give parents and students better choices. I'm sorry if you don't like that idea. I don't like the idea of my son's education being subject to the whims and fancies of a teacher's union and their political leanings.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So what's the better solution? Have 19 year olds in 8th grade? How do you think that would affect the educational environment for the 13 year olds in the 8th grade? Are you going to expel the students who don't master 8th grade material? That's prohibited by law. What solution do you have?

If you must grant all participants a HS diploma then just do so. I see no problem with “expelling” those who have completed HS (on paper). What is causing a problem is putting folks in any HS grade level class who have not mastered the material from the previous grade level(s).

 

[Slyfox696]

I get it. You're a public school teacher.

Yep.

You're probably also part of a teacher's union.

Nope.

Public school is antiquated.

Public school is not antiquated. The structure of public education is antiquated. It definitely needs revision. But public education cannot revise itself, it requires a change in laws to do so. So, in this case, your criticism is that society's views of education are antiquated. To which I agree.

They are failing. They are falling behind the global curve.

They are not. There is a study from Stanford (I believe) which shows that when you adjust for the differences in poverty, American public education is among the world leaders. If you want, I can try to find the study. It's a few years old at this point, but should still be relevant.

It is time to give parents and students better choices.

It's time for parents to take more interest in their child's education. There's very few problems in education that cannot be solved with more involved parents. Blaming teachers is lazy. Blaming parents is addressing the real point of failure.

I'm sorry if you don't like that idea.

It's not whether I like it or not, it's just stupid and illogical. I'm sorry if you've never bothered to think through why it is stupid and illogical, but that's a you problem.

I don't like the idea of my son's education being subject to the whims and fancies of a teacher's union and their political leanings.

It's not. It's being subject to the whims and fancies of your elected politicians who adopt the state standards districts are required to meet, the whims and fancies of the state Department of Educations who create testing standards and/or contract out for state tests. School districts align curriculum to meet state requirements, not the other way around.

No offense, but if you have so little understanding of how public education works, why are you here in this thread arguing with educators who have dealt with it for well over a decade?

 

[Slyfox696]

If you must grant all participants a HS diploma then just do so. I see no problem with “expelling” those who have completed HS (on paper). What is causing a problem is putting folks in any HS grade level class who have not mastered the material from the previous grade level(s).

But, again, how do you solve that problem? That's my question to you. If you have a 16 year old student, someone with an IEP, who reads at a 5th grade level, what solution do you propose? Keep in mind, your solution must follow state and federal laws.

How would you handle the situation with a 16 year old student who has an IEP who reads at a 5th grade level, if you were the school administrator?

 

[Josie]

It's time for parents to take more interest in their child's education. There's very few problems in education that cannot be solved with more involved parents. Blaming teachers is lazy. Blaming parents is addressing the real point of failure.

Yes. While I do know and have known many poor teachers, parents have the most influence on children. Of all of the kids I've known who were below grade level, a few had learning disabilities and the majority of the rest had parents that really couldn't care less about their child's education. These parents don't come to conferences, don't respond to messages or phone calls, don't help with homework, never read newsletters or notes, never ask how they can help their child at home...heck, they never even ask how their child is doing in school. I've had parents who come March or April when I've finally dragged them in for a conference say "You give spelling tests?" Where ya been all year, ya big dummy!

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes. While I do know and have known many poor teachers, parents have the most influence on children. Of all of the kids I've known who were below grade level, a few had learning disabilities and the majority of the rest had parents that really couldn't care less about their child's education. These parents don't come to conferences, don't respond to messages or phone calls, don't help with homework, never read newsletters or notes, never ask how they can help their child at home...heck, they never even ask how their child is doing in school. I've had parents who come March or April when I've finally dragged them in for a conference say "You give spelling tests?" Where ya been all year, ya big dummy!

Exactly. Like you said, poor teachers do exist, but the involvement of a parent in their child's education, as well as the importance the parent places on education, is a FAR greater predictor of academic success than nearly any other factor. A great teacher is still going to struggle to get through to an unmotivated student with no parental support.

But blaming parents doesn't win elections. And bad parents certainly don't want to point the finger at themselves. So no one ever REALLY wants to get to the bottom of the biggest problems in education because no one wants to confront the reality that society is failing our children. It's just easier to blame nameless/faceless teachers, because when we were kids, nobody wanted to go to school.

 

[psikeyhackr]

No mention of PLATO in this thread.

PLATO (computer system) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Tablet computers since 2015 have been more powerful than 1980s mainframes. With something like IBM's Watson to handle questions too complicated for tablets via the internet we could totally revamp the chalk and talk educational paradigm. But a hell of a lot of people have a vested economic interest in not doing that.

Plus computers might not do a good job of psychologically conditioning children to be subservient to authority, so politicians and CEOs might not want it either. With decades of blather about economics our so called educators can not suggest something as simple as mandatory accounting/finance in the schools. We are supposed to be brainwashed workers.

100 gigabytes could be burned into M-Discs that are supposed to last for centuries.

M-DISC - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Fishking]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to kick a child out, under existing laws? Especially if they have an IEP?

And that's the problem, right there. That one solves all others. They get booted. School should not be a daycare.

So you want 19 year old students in with 13 year old students?

By that time they can be booted too.

Such an uninformed statement.

False opinion noted. In the real world, what our schools are producing is shittier and shittier as time has gone on. They need to focus on actual education, have standards, and enforce them. If enforcement of those standards gets a kid suspended, you can sure as hell believe that the parents might start getting more invested into their child's behavior and performance. These aren't opinions, these are facts backed up by our continued falling rankings in education.

 

[Grand Mal]

Children need to learn how to be adults this is done best by interacting with adults, children learning socialization skills from other children is akin to a Lord of the Flies situation.

Children learn to socialize by interaction with their peers. Of course adults supervise but children have always played with other children and learned to be part of a community of equals by learning to get along with other children, not by being instructed by authority figures.
Nobody needs to be taught how to be an adult. It happens naturally to people who have been naturally socialized. Everyone I know, everyone that everyone I know knows, learned how to be a member of society the same way, by group interaction with their peers. Any other approach is trying to compensate for the absence of the natural process.

 

[Slyfox696]

And that's the problem, right there. That one solves all others. They get booted. School should not be a daycare.

So your solution is to kick kids out of schools for problems they can't help. How charming of you.

False opinion noted.

LOL...I love how you are telling a teacher what actually happens in classrooms.

Your statement was false. Just because you're ignorant, that doesn't mean the rest of us are.

In the real world, what our schools are producing is shittier and shittier as time has gone on.

In the real world, our society is placing less and less importance and support on education. Schools are being asked to do more than ever before, with parents less involved than ever. You're blaming schools for the ills of society. Because, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

They need to focus on actual education, have standards, and enforce them.

We do. That's what I'm telling you. Your comment was completely uninformed.

If enforcement of those standards gets a kid suspended, you can sure as hell believe that the parents might start getting more invested into their child's behavior and performance.

LOL.

How naive.

These aren't opinions

They are fantasies, is what they are. They are fantasies of the ignorant, of someone whose understanding of education seems less than most of our students.

, these are facts backed up by our continued falling rankings in education.

Except, as I've already stated, this is not true. When you adjust for economic level, American public education is one of the best in the world. The problem isn't our schools, the problem is our society.

 

[Fishking]

So your solution is to kick kids out of schools for problems they can't help. How charming of you.

They can help it. Everyone has their own agency. Your "solution" is failing and it effects other students that are there to learn.

LOL...I love how you are telling a teacher what actually happens in classrooms.

I've seen plenty of examples and throwing in your posting history, I'm not shocked you don't see it. Teachers are one of the more corrupt organizations out there, right up with with many issues with the police force. Remove both unions and we can start to see improvements.

In the real world, our society is placing less and less importance and support on education. Schools are being asked to do more than ever before, with parents less involved than ever. You're blaming schools for the ills of society. Because, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Why place emphasis on something that has continually lowered standards?

We do. That's what I'm telling you. Your comment was completely uninformed.

Oh really? 'Splain shit like this then.

Baltimore City Public Schools Promoted Student With 0.13 GPA While Spending A $1.4 Billion Budget

For Baltimore City Public School employees, it paid to be virtual.

www.forbes.com

LOL.

How naive.

They are fantasies, is what they are. They are fantasies of the ignorant, of someone whose understanding of education seems less than most of our students.

Except, as I've already stated, this is not true. When you adjust for economic level, American public education is one of the best in the world. The problem isn't our schools, the problem is our society.

We spend more on education than other countries but get stomped. You're culpable and trying to cover your own failings in your institution. No one that looks at it objectively is buying it. We can all see the results.

The US spends more on education than other countries. Why is it falling behind?

Spending per student exceeds the OECD average but the likes of Finland and South Korea get better results. What can the US learn from them?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Slyfox696]

They can help it.

Kids cannot always help it. They cannot help medical conditions. They cannot help family situations. They cannot help things which happen to them. You're just wrong about this and you have to know it.

Everyone has their own agency. Your "solution" is failing and it effects other students that are there to learn.

You are correct that it does affect other students. I don't know what the correct solution is. But I know yours is wrong. Giving up on children will always be wrong.

I've seen plenty of examples and throwing in your posting history, I'm not shocked you don't see it.

There's nothing to see. You're wrong. I have spent many years in the classroom. So has numerous members of my family (in math, social studies and language arts). You are simply wrong. You're letting your politics affect your perception of what happens in the classroom and it is making you sound stupid.

Teachers are one of the more corrupt organizations out there

Oh, you're one of THOSE people. Ahh, good to know.

Why place emphasis on something that has continually lowered standards?

This is just laughable. First of all, what "standards" are you referring to? Do you even know standards actually have an educational meaning? Do you know who sets those standards? Do you know how educational standards affect curriculum and how they fit into learning?

Oh really? 'Splain shit like this then.

Baltimore City Public Schools Promoted Student With 0.13 GPA While Spending A $1.4 Billion Budget

For Baltimore City Public School employees, it paid to be virtual.

www.forbes.com

What are you wanting me to explain??? How is that story related to your ignorant comment of, "If they put as much effort into teaching math, reading, ect. as they did into diversity and social justice bullshit we wouldn't be in this situation."??? Do you even know what you're talking about?

Oh, and if you're asking how he could have that GPA and that class rank, the school already answered that in your own link: https://www.openthebooks.com/assets/1/6/RFC_--_BCPS_03262021.pdf

So...do you not have any idea what you're talking about or are you just not reading your own sources? Which is it?

We spend more on education than other countries but get stomped. You're culpable and trying to cover your own failings in your institution. No one that looks at it objectively is buying it. We can all see the results.

The US spends more on education than other countries. Why is it falling behind?

Spending per student exceeds the OECD average but the likes of Finland and South Korea get better results. What can the US learn from them?

www.theguardian.com

"As part of the study, Carnoy and Rothstein calculated how international rankings on the most recent PISA might change if the United States had a social class composition similar to that of top-ranking nations: U.S. rankings would rise to sixth from 14th in reading and to 13th from 25th in math. The gap between U.S. students and those from the highest-achieving countries would be cut in half in reading and by at least a third in math."

Poor ranking on international tests misleading about U.S. performance, new report finds

A comprehensive analysis of test scores raises questions about how American students compare with peers in other nations.

ed.stanford.edu

Primary source summary (with link to full source): https://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing

It's like you don't even read the things you reply to. When you adjust for socio-economic levels, the USA's educational system is performing reasonably well. Is there room for improvement? Obviously yes, nothing is perfect. And schools are CONSTANTLY working to better themselves. But your narrative is a false one. As I have repeatedly said, it is not schools that are failing children, it is society.

 

[Fishking]

Kids cannot always help it. They cannot help medical conditions. They cannot help family situations. They cannot help things which happen to them. You're just wrong about this and you have to know it.

Doesn't matter. Schools are not daycare. Figure that out.

You are correct that it does affect other students. I don't know what the correct solution is. But I know yours is wrong. Giving up on children will always be wrong.

Creating an environment that caters to the lowest common denominator is giving up on the kids that are trying to actually learn.

Oh, you're one of THOSE people. Ahh, good to know.

One of those people that know teachers are failing our students and are wholly corrupt, especially with their incestuous relationship with the Democratic party. Must be nice to have large donors using tax payer money that is then used to keep their corruption going. **** that.

What are you wanting me to explain??? How is that story related to your ignorant comment of, "If they put as much effort into teaching math, reading, ect. as they did into diversity and social justice bullshit we wouldn't be in this situation."??? Do you even know what you're talking about?

Oh, and if you're asking how he could have that GPA and that class rank, the school already answered that in your own link: https://www.openthebooks.com/assets/1/6/RFC_--_BCPS_03262021.pdf

Lol...THAT is your explanation? Sorry, it doesn't explain it. It half way through the school year with a .13 GPA. That means there were plenty of grades from other students to push that particular one to the bottom. Try actually reading shit and not trying to pass off BS answers that not only aren't specific answers but are self defeating. I pity you students.

"As part of the study, Carnoy and Rothstein calculated how international rankings on the most recent PISA might change if the United States had a social class composition similar to that of top-ranking nations: U.S. rankings would rise to sixth from 14th in reading and to 13th from 25th in math. The gap between U.S. students and those from the highest-achieving countries would be cut in half in reading and by at least a third in math."

Poor ranking on international tests misleading about U.S. performance, new report finds

A comprehensive analysis of test scores raises questions about how American students compare with peers in other nations.

ed.stanford.edu

Primary source summary (with link to full source): https://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing

It's like you don't even read the things you reply to. When you adjust for socio-economic levels, the USA's educational system is performing reasonably well. Is there room for improvement? Obviously yes, nothing is perfect. And schools are CONSTANTLY working to better themselves. But your narrative is a false one. As I have repeatedly said, it is not schools that are failing children, it is society.

We spend tons of money on schools but you want to have better results, no matter how you want to slice up the rankings to ignore the systemic failures.

 

[Slyfox696]

Doesn't matter. Schools are not daycare. Figure that out.

Creating an environment that caters to the lowest common denominator is giving up on the kids that are trying to actually learn.

Schools are places of education. Education takes far more forms than your narrow-minded ideas of education. Giving up on children is not the answer and all it will do is lead to worse conditions in society.

One of those people

Who has no idea what happens in education, but because they read a few grifters who are just seeking money, thinks they are an expert.

I see/talk to people like you all the time. It's a shame you don't care as much about education as you do wanting people to think you know something about education.

that know teachers are failing our students

Teachers, as a whole, are not failing students. Society, people like you (for example), are failing our students.

and are wholly corrupt

This is just idiotic. Corrupt in what way? Do you even know how stupid the things you are saying are?

, especially with their incestuous relationship with the Democratic party.

LOL! I work in a district where I conservatively guess 70% of the district voted for Trump and other Republicans. At least one of our school administrators believes in QAnon theories (but make no mistake, she is good in her job). And my district is typical of the area. I work in a strongly Republican state.

Again, you're letting your political bias influence your opinion and it is causing you to say incredibly stupid things.

Lol...THAT is your explanation?

No, it is the school's explanation. And it is a valid one. Is it an accurate one? I have no idea, I don't work in Baltimore and I, like you, are legally prohibited from accessing this student's educational records due to federal law. But it is entirely believable.

Sorry, it doesn't explain it.

Sure it does. Just because you're ignorant to how things work, that doesn't mean those who are not are wrong.

It half way through the school year with a .13 GPA. That means there were plenty of grades from other students to push that particular one to the bottom.

Not if other students had parents who were involved as this student's parents. I mean, look at the kind of parent she is:

"According to her son’s transcripts, in four years, he’s earned 2.5 credits, he’s passed just three classes, and he was late or absent to school 359 days. France says she didn’t know any of this until February. Because, prior to then, the school never told her that her son was being promoted through the grades even though he failed most every class."

According to the mother herself, she had no idea how her son did in school, what grade he was in, or if he was even at school. She sounds like a very involved and concerned parent, right? But, sure, it is the school's fault a mother has no idea if her son is even going to school. That's not a societal problem at all. And let's look at some of this student's classmates:

"The school’s attendance rate is 61 percent. That’s 27 points below the district average. Of the 434 students enrolled in 2019, two tested proficient in math and two in English."

Yes, how could it be that the school was providing accurate information with such a great family support system so obviously apparent in this school community.

Seriously, do you ever stop to think how utterly idiotic the things you're posting are?

 

[Slyfox696]

Try actually reading shit and not trying to pass off BS answers that not only aren't specific answers but are self defeating.

I did read it. That's how I know you didn't. Because you asked a question the school had already answered. Why are you telling me to read things I clearly read, when you clearly did not? That's stupid, like so many of your other comments on this topic.

I pity you students.

You shouldn't, because, unlike you, I actually care about them and work hard to make sure ALL of them have the best opportunity to learn. Unlike you, I don't want to throw one out because he/she is a little bit difficult.

Don't pity my students. They actually have at least one person who cares about them...because you sure as hell don't care one bit about them.

We spend tons of money on schools but you want to have better results, no matter how you want to slice up the rankings to ignore the systemic failures.

LOL!

"Okay, sure Slyfox, you presented scientific information which completely obliterates my point and 100% proves yours, but rather than admit I've been wrong through ignorance this whole time, I'm just gonna vomit some rhetoric I've been brainwashed to think."

Thank you, Fishking, for perhaps the most telling comment you've made in this thread. Well, this comment and your comments about giving up on children for factors they cannot help. That's pretty telling as well.

As I've repeatedly said, are there things education can do better? Yes, of course. Schools are CONSTANTLY trying to better themselves and find better ways to educate. Just because you're ignorant, it doesn't make that any less true. Are there bad schools/teachers. Yes, just like in any profession, you have bad apples. But MOST teachers work their butts off to do the best they can for children. Their salaries are often far less than they should be, they are constantly asked to give their free time and even their personal money to educate, and so many of them have chosen to dedicate their lives to helping children, not for personal fame or glory, but because they care.

You can go around and call them "corrupt" as often as you'd like, but it won't make you sound any less stupid or ignorant.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Public education is, no doubt, an essential investment. However, with it taking up more than a quarter of most state budgets, are we getting the most bang for our tax bucks? With the popularity of online colleges growing, I wonder how much can be saved and redistributed to other programs/returned to taxpayers if online options were offered to gifted students and students with no significant disabilities? Cutting down on class size and building size for future schools could not only have an impact budget-wise, but it could cut down on bullying, school violence, peer pressure, and just the overall stress of school in general (honestly, who fondly remembers middle school or high school?) Some may argue online options would hurt a student's social skills. I don't know if I really agree with that. Students can acquire more social skills through extracurricular activities, family members, and friends in their neighborhood. A lot of the socialization in middle school/high school can be extremely negative which leads to fights, threats, harrassment, cyberstalking, and school shootings. I haven't dived real deep into any numbers, but there doesn't seem to be much on the internet about this idea.

Hell no, socializing important aspect of life. Also, unless you start paying for government child care you can't shut schools, how are parents supposed to work and watch/help educate their kids?

 

[Fishking]

Schools are places of education. Education takes far more forms than your narrow-minded ideas of education. Giving up on children is not the answer and all it will do is lead to worse conditions in society.

Who has no idea what happens in education, but because they read a few grifters who are just seeking money, thinks they are an expert.

I see/talk to people like you all the time. It's a shame you don't care as much about education as you do wanting people to think you know something about education.

Teachers, as a whole, are not failing students. Society, people like you (for example), are failing our students.

This is just idiotic. Corrupt in what way? Do you even know how stupid the things you are saying are?

LOL! I work in a district where I conservatively guess 70% of the district voted for Trump and other Republicans. At least one of our school administrators believes in QAnon theories (but make no mistake, she is good in her job). And my district is typical of the area. I work in a strongly Republican state.

Again, you're letting your political bias influence your opinion and it is causing you to say incredibly stupid things.

No, it is the school's explanation. And it is a valid one. Is it an accurate one? I have no idea, I don't work in Baltimore and I, like you, are legally prohibited from accessing this student's educational records due to federal law. But it is entirely believable.

Sure it does. Just because you're ignorant to how things work, that doesn't mean those who are not are wrong.

Not if other students had parents who were involved as this student's parents. I mean, look at the kind of parent she is:

"According to her son’s transcripts, in four years, he’s earned 2.5 credits, he’s passed just three classes, and he was late or absent to school 359 days. France says she didn’t know any of this until February. Because, prior to then, the school never told her that her son was being promoted through the grades even though he failed most every class."

According to the mother herself, she had no idea how her son did in school, what grade he was in, or if he was even at school. She sounds like a very involved and concerned parent, right? But, sure, it is the school's fault a mother has no idea if her son is even going to school. That's not a societal problem at all. And let's look at some of this student's classmates:

"The school’s attendance rate is 61 percent. That’s 27 points below the district average. Of the 434 students enrolled in 2019, two tested proficient in math and two in English."

Yes, how could it be that the school was providing accurate information with such a great family support system so obviously apparent in this school community.

Seriously, do you ever stop to think how utterly idiotic the things you're posting are?

A teacher that can't even quote a full sentence. ****ing epic.

 

[Slyfox696]

A teacher that can't even quote a full sentence. ****ing epic.

Is this you waving the white flag, finally realizing you've been overmatched this entire debate? Because your comment here doesn't even make sense in the least, but it strongly appears to be your way to try and get out of the conversation while trying to maintain your e-ego.

So is this your concession that you know you're getting exposed for saying something of the most ignorant things possible? Because I'll accept your surrender if you simply offer it.

 

[Fishking]

Is this you waving the white flag, finally realizing you've been overmatched this entire debate? Because your comment here doesn't even make sense in the least, but it strongly appears to be your way to try and get out of the conversation while trying to maintain your e-ego.

So is this your concession that you know you're getting exposed for saying something of the most ignorant things possible? Because I'll accept your surrender if you simply offer it.

It's me having already trashed your poor excuse for a debate not getting bogged down with a stupid ****ing posting style. Look, I understand that full sentences and thoughts can be tough. It's not for everyone.

 

[Slyfox696]

It's me having already trashed your poor excuse for a debate not getting bogged down with a stupid ****ing posting style.

LOL

So, yes, this is you waving the white flag because you know you are hopelessly outmatched. Why not just admit it? We can all see what you're doing here. You've been shown to be wrong repeatedly, but rather than do the mature thing and be a man and admit you were wrong, you're throwing around a bunch of useless rhetoric to try and cover your full retreat.

It's a shame you were never taught that it is okay to be wrong, but less okay to insist on ignorance.

Look, I understand that full sentences and thoughts can be tough. It's not for everyone.

I have no problem with it at all, as evidenced by the fact I've quoted nearly every relevant thing you've posted, but if you do have a problem with sentences and thoughts, then I hope you don't ever have to go to a school run by yourself, because you would have already kicked yourself out of the school for your inability to understand full sentences and thoughts.

 

[Geoist]

Hell no, socializing important aspect of life. Also, unless you start paying for government child care you can't shut schools, how are parents supposed to work and watch/help educate their kids?

I've addressed the socializing part. You don't need the industrial-revolution style of public schooling to help young people socialize.

Parents don't need to be all that involved. High schoolers don't need their parents/babysitters around during their class/classwork time. Obviously grade schoolers will need to continue school as we know it since they will need government child care (which just so happens to be the public schools).