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Should pregnant women who smoke or drink go to prison?

CriticalThought

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This is a serious question. I imagine in my lifetime I will see Roe V. Wade chipped away and eventually overturned. Many state laws being passed now are more restrictive than the laws were prior to Roe and the concept of fetal personhood has largely become an an accepted part of the pro life lexicon over the last 50 years to the point many believe it has always existed. We now see laws that would send not just abortion providers to prison but women who seek abortions.

In an era where a sizable slice of the populace equates abortion to murder and sees a fetus vested with as many, if not more rights, than women we will not enter the same world we were in before Roe when it comes down. Alabama is leading the way in showing us what comes next.

Take a Valium, Lose Your Kid, Go to Jail — ProPublica

She had been charged with “knowingly, recklessly, or intentionally” causing her baby to be exposed to controlled substances in the womb — a felony punishable in her case by up to 10 years in prison. The investigators led her to an unmarked car, handcuffed her and took her to jail.


That was half an Ativan. This is a whole new world with a lot of questions for women.

Should every miscarriage be investigated as a potential homicide?

Should pregnant women be regularly drug tested to ensure they are not endangering their fetus?

Should diet and exercise habits of pregnant women be dictated by the state?

Should women be compelled to submit to random pregnancy tests to ensure they are not hiding a pregnancy?

Should pregnant women be held legally accountable if they take part in risky behaviors that could endanger their fetus?

I am very happy I am not a woman because the next few decades may see some remarkable intrusions into their privacy and personal lives. When you already have choice it is easy to undervalue it until you no longer have it and realize this debate goes beyond abortion and entails a lot about the control you have over your own life and personal choices.
 
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Of course!

Women are nothing more than a womb and uterus...with some flesh wrapped around it.
 
The thing is, I don’t think most pro-lifers would ever go this far. This is something from leftist philosophy and not conservative philosophy. States are already passing laws making it illegal to smoke if a child is in the car with you, etc.

And the push towards universal healthcare is basically towards controlling people.


I can give you a solid real life example, it was primarily leftist anti-property rights philosophy that led to banning smoking in private businesses against the wishes of the owners of the premises, on the justification people need to be protected from negative consequences and making smoking disfavored would save money for Medicaid (haha but taxes haven’t gone down despite all these “savings” LOL). Yet religious conservatives have not passed laws banning fornication even though it absolutely harms children and leads to health consequences like STDs etc.

So the main driver behind the pro-life movement is ideologically against overreach to create a Utopia.
 
Of course!

Women are nothing more than a womb and uterus...with some flesh wrapped around it.

Except no one who’s pro-life says that.

The irony is, under secular leftist philosophy all a woman is, is a meat popsicle. The left doesn’t believe human life is Intrinsically valuable.
 
Why? Its their bodies. Who cares what they do it. Right? So what if the baby is born deformed or otherwise damaged...the only time the baby should matter is after it can crawl its ass into the field and forage for itself.
 
Except no one who’s pro-life says that.

The irony is, under secular leftist philosophy all a woman is, is a meat popsicle. The left doesn’t believe human life is Intrinsically valuable.

Is abortion murder?
 
Why? Its their bodies. Who cares what they do it. Right? So what if the baby is born deformed or otherwise damaged...the only time the baby should matter is after it can crawl its ass into the field and forage for itself.

I'm glad that I had my two sons before all the warnings about smoking were made public. I smoked all through two pregnancies and through their entire childhoods. Of course in retrospect it was a stupid thing to do, but we were totally ignorant of the harms that smoking can possibly do. Neither one of my grown sons had to 'crawl on their asses in the field and forage for themselves', thank goodness.
 
This is a serious question. I imagine in my lifetime I will see Roe V. Wade chipped away and eventually overturned. Many state laws being passed now are more restrictive than the laws were prior to Roe and the concept of fetal personhood has largely become an an accepted part of the pro life lexicon over the last 50 years to the point many believe it has always existed. We now see laws that would send not just abortion providers to prison but women who seek abortions.

In an era where a sizable slice of the populace equates abortion to murder and sees a fetus vested with as many, if not more rights, than women we will not enter the same world we were in before Roe when it comes down. Alabama is leading the way in showing us what comes next.

Take a Valium, Lose Your Kid, Go to Jail — ProPublica




That was half an Ativan. This is a whole new world with a lot of questions for women.

Should every miscarriage be investigated as a potential homicide?

Should pregnant women be regularly drug tested to ensure they are not endangering their fetus?

Should diet and exercise habits of pregnant women be dictated by the state?

Should women be compelled to submit to random pregnancy tests to ensure they are not hiding a pregnancy?

Should pregnant women be held legally accountable if they take part in risky behaviors that could endanger their fetus?

I am very happy I am not a woman because the next few decades may see some remarkable intrusions into their privacy and personal lives. When you already have choice it is easy to undervalue it until you no longer have it and realize this debate goes beyond abortion and entails a lot about the control you have over your own life and personal choices.

Before the child is born? No. Pregnant women should not be charged. Because she can choose to end the pregnancy at any time.

But after the child is born and if the child is found to have severe developmental disorders or physical deformities caused by the mother's negligence? I see no reason why she should not be.
 
I'm glad that I had my two sons before all the warnings about smoking were made public. I smoked all through two pregnancies and through their entire childhoods. Of course in retrospect it was a stupid thing to do, but we were totally ignorant of the harms that smoking can possibly do. Neither one of my grown sons had to 'crawl on their asses in the field and forage for themselves', thank goodness.
Lucky for them.

We cant live in a society that says "up until birth you can slaughter your baby, if its what you want to do" and then in the same breath says "we are going to imprison you for endangering your babies life for smoking or drinking while in the womb". Its either life and worth saving or it isnt.
 
1 cigerette while pregnant = instant jail

:D
 
The thing is, I don’t think most pro-lifers would ever go this far. This is something from leftist philosophy and not conservative philosophy. States are already passing laws making it illegal to smoke if a child is in the car with you, etc.

And the push towards universal healthcare is basically towards controlling people.

Which you don't think is a problem. See my signature.
 
This is a serious question. I imagine in my lifetime I will see Roe V. Wade chipped away and eventually overturned. Many state laws being passed now are more restrictive than the laws were prior to Roe and the concept of fetal personhood has largely become an an accepted part of the pro life lexicon over the last 50 years to the point many believe it has always existed. We now see laws that would send not just abortion providers to prison but women who seek abortions.

In an era where a sizable slice of the populace equates abortion to murder and sees a fetus vested with as many, if not more rights, than women we will not enter the same world we were in before Roe when it comes down. Alabama is leading the way in showing us what comes next.

Take a Valium, Lose Your Kid, Go to Jail — ProPublica




That was half an Ativan. This is a whole new world with a lot of questions for women.

Should every miscarriage be investigated as a potential homicide?

Should pregnant women be regularly drug tested to ensure they are not endangering their fetus?

Should diet and exercise habits of pregnant women be dictated by the state?

Should women be compelled to submit to random pregnancy tests to ensure they are not hiding a pregnancy?

Should pregnant women be held legally accountable if they take part in risky behaviors that could endanger their fetus?

I am very happy I am not a woman because the next few decades may see some remarkable intrusions into their privacy and personal lives. When you already have choice it is easy to undervalue it until you no longer have it and realize this debate goes beyond abortion and entails a lot about the control you have over your own life and personal choices.

Just depends. Was she in the missionary position when she conceived this child?
 
The thing is, I don’t think most pro-lifers would ever go this far. This is something from leftist philosophy and not conservative philosophy. States are already passing laws making it illegal to smoke if a child is in the car with you, etc.

And the push towards universal healthcare is basically towards controlling people.


I can give you a solid real life example, it was primarily leftist anti-property rights philosophy that led to banning smoking in private businesses against the wishes of the owners of the premises, on the justification people need to be protected from negative consequences and making smoking disfavored would save money for Medicaid (haha but taxes haven’t gone down despite all these “savings” LOL). Yet religious conservatives have not passed laws banning fornication even though it absolutely harms children and leads to health consequences like STDs etc.

So the main driver behind the pro-life movement is ideologically against overreach to create a Utopia.

Leftist? Man you are like way out of it....But do not stop the propaganda we all need a good laugh at the lunatic fringe..



A New Missouri Bill Calls For Police To Literally Stop Women From Getting Abortions
One Missouri lawmaker is working to make it harder for women to get abortions, while simultaneously redefining what an abortion actually is. Mike Moon, a Republican Missouri state representative, has introduced a bill that would classify a fertilized egg as a “person” with constitutional rights. In doing so, police would be required to enforce the proposed law, which would essentially make abortion akin to murder.

According to The Guardian, Moon has dubbed the bill the “Right to Due Process Act.” He introduced it into the Missouri state legislature last month, but it was reportedly pre-filed back in December. The bill’s text says that “law enforcement officers, officers of the court, and any licensed or state-regulated entities in the state shall affirmatively enforce” the bill’s provision barring abortion in the state. The worse-case scenarios of this playing out in real life would involve cops preventing people from getting abortions, or punishing anyone who does get an abortion, which would be considered murder under the proposed legislation.

One of Moon’s colleagues, state representative Ben Baker, told The Guardian that “the legal focus was right to be on conferring rights to fetuses.”

“The main thing for me, is understanding again — if it is a life and we believe it is a life then it should have rights just like the rest of us,” Baker said. “But how we go about that line of where we would forcefully deal with that situation — I think we have to take a lot of things into consideration.”

In 2017, Moon garnered national attention when he filmed himself beheading a chicken as a way of protesting against the Missouri governor’s refusal to ban abortion outright. Regardless, the state is certainly making some troubling progress on that front. Last year, Missouri nearly became the first state without a standalone abortion clinic since Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. Rewire.News reports that Missouri’s health department has attempted to close the last abortion clinic in St. Louis by “using a vast web of anti-choice restrictions that are medically unnecessary and can be harmful to sexual assault survivors.”


A New Missouri Bill Calls For Police To Literally Stop Women From Getting Abortions
 
Lucky for them.

We cant live in a society that says "up until birth you can slaughter your baby, if its what you want to do" and then in the same breath says "we are going to imprison you for endangering your babies life for smoking or drinking while in the womb". Its either life and worth saving or it isnt.

Men that drink alcohol get liver and bladder cancer at a much higher rate than a non-drinker. Should we enact some new legislation banning alcohol? They tried that during prohibition, see how well that turned out. Using Viagra can lead to serious risks, too, if a man has an underlying medical condition. For instance, men with heart disease who take drugs known as nitrates can develop dangerously low blood pressure if they take Viagra. Should we ban Viagra so men can't get a long lasting erection? Men who work as welders develop lung cancer far more often than a carpenter. Should we ban welding for a living. Women that are anorexic and pregnant post a risk to their developing fetus, should we imprison all women who are anorexic so that they don't get pregnant and endanger a fetus?

People are free to do whatever they wish to do with their own bodies, period.
 
Men that drink alcohol get liver and bladder cancer at a much higher rate than a non-drinker. Should we enact some new legislation banning alcohol? They tried that during prohibition, see how well that turned out. Using Viagra can lead to serious risks, too, if a man has an underlying medical condition. For instance, men with heart disease who take drugs known as nitrates can develop dangerously low blood pressure if they take Viagra. Should we ban Viagra so men can't get a long lasting erection? Men who work as welders develop lung cancer far more often than a carpenter. Should we ban welding for a living. Women that are anorexic and pregnant post a risk to their developing fetus, should we imprison all women who are anorexic so that they don't get pregnant and endanger a fetus?

People are free to do whatever they wish to do with their own bodies, period.
You surely arent believing that the reason this is being discussed is because people are doing damage to THEMSELVES...therefore, why would you attempt to make a foolish argument based on a false equivalence?
 
You surely arent believing that the reason this is being discussed is because people are doing damage to THEMSELVES...therefore, why would you attempt to make a foolish argument based on a false equivalence?

What's false about it.
 
This is a serious question. I imagine in my lifetime I will see Roe V. Wade chipped away and eventually overturned. Many state laws being passed now are more restrictive than the laws were prior to Roe and the concept of fetal personhood has largely become an an accepted part of the pro life lexicon over the last 50 years to the point many believe it has always existed. We now see laws that would send not just abortion providers to prison but women who seek abortions.

In an era where a sizable slice of the populace equates abortion to murder and sees a fetus vested with as many, if not more rights, than women we will not enter the same world we were in before Roe when it comes down. Alabama is leading the way in showing us what comes next.

Take a Valium, Lose Your Kid, Go to Jail — ProPublica




That was half an Ativan. This is a whole new world with a lot of questions for women.

Should every miscarriage be investigated as a potential homicide?

Should pregnant women be regularly drug tested to ensure they are not endangering their fetus?

Should diet and exercise habits of pregnant women be dictated by the state?

Should women be compelled to submit to random pregnancy tests to ensure they are not hiding a pregnancy?

Should pregnant women be held legally accountable if they take part in risky behaviors that could endanger their fetus?

I am very happy I am not a woman because the next few decades may see some remarkable intrusions into their privacy and personal lives. When you already have choice it is easy to undervalue it until you no longer have it and realize this debate goes beyond abortion and entails a lot about the control you have over your own life and personal choices.

you mean in the USA?

Or in Yemen?
 
The thing is, I don’t think most pro-lifers would ever go this far. This is something from leftist philosophy and not conservative philosophy. States are already passing laws making it illegal to smoke if a child is in the car with you, etc.

And the push towards universal healthcare is basically towards controlling people.


I can give you a solid real life example, it was primarily leftist anti-property rights philosophy that led to banning smoking in private businesses against the wishes of the owners of the premises, on the justification people need to be protected from negative consequences and making smoking disfavored would save money for Medicaid (haha but taxes haven’t gone down despite all these “savings” LOL). Yet religious conservatives have not passed laws banning fornication even though it absolutely harms children and leads to health consequences like STDs etc.

So the main driver behind the pro-life movement is ideologically against overreach to create a Utopia.


Here's one who would go that far...
A prosecutor in Montana made headlines last month when he announced his intent to seek jail time for women who use drugs or alcohol while pregnant.

Big Horn County Attorney Gerald “Jay” Harris and his office say they want to prevent a pregnant woman from using drugs or alcohol by seeking an order of protection on behalf of the fetus.

Harris wrote an email to Healthline explaining the policy, which seeks to address drug and alcohol use during pregnancy as a matter of child abuse.

Pregnant Women Drinking Jail Sentences
 
What's false about it.
WOmen that arent prgnant can do the same amount of drinking and damage to themselves as men...and most folk wont bat an eyelash. The reason this is a topic of discussion is not what women do to themselves but rather what they do to their unborn children.
 
WOmen that arent prgnant can do the same amount of drinking and damage to themselves as men...and most folk wont bat an eyelash. The reason this is a topic of discussion is not what women do to themselves but rather what they do to their unborn children.

The evidence suggesting causal effects of mothers smoking during pregnancy are outcomes that are muddied in the existing literature due to the frequent inability to separate prenatal exposure effects from other confounding environmental and genetic factors. There is no absolute definitive proof that exposure to maternal smoking affects the fetus. Sure, advocates for women to stop smoking during pregnancy will come up with a host of possible or 'suspected' outcomes but not one single thing can be proven as scientific fact.
 
The thing is, I don’t think most pro-lifers would ever go this far. This is something from leftist philosophy and not conservative philosophy. States are already passing laws making it illegal to smoke if a child is in the car with you, etc.

Why not? Isnt it child abuse to do the things in the OP according to your comments here, over and over? If abortion is murder and reproducing is the highest form of service to the Lord...with bc forbidden...why isnt it abuse or neglect to do anything that we know 'may' harm the unborn?

Seems hypocritical to me. It seems from all your posting, that once pregnant, a woman is a slave to the unborn growing in her womb with zero options and all her responsibility should be focused on fostering it.
 
Lucky for them.

We cant live in a society that says "up until birth you can slaughter your baby, if its what you want to do" and then in the same breath says "we are going to imprison you for endangering your babies life for smoking or drinking while in the womb". Its either life and worth saving or it isnt.

So then if we did ban elective abortion, you are onboard with what the OP listed?
 
Which you don't think is a problem. See my signature.

Inorite? The Catholic Cult is all about controlling every aspect of a member's life.
 
So then if we did ban elective abortion, you are onboard with what the OP listed?

Be consistent.


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