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Should people who pay no income tax be allowed to vote?

MaggieD

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(Question prompted by a recent post.)

If 37% of Americans pay no income tax isn't there a real danger that these same people don't CARE how much our government spends? Don't WANT to control entitlements?

Why should people who don't "put their money where their mouth is" be allowed a voice in determining how money is spent?

My signature line reads: "Those who rob from Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support." Isn't there a real danger in that?
 

soccerboy22

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Well I am a full time student so I don't have a job hence I don't pay any income tax. So, why should I not be allowed to vote because I am a student?
 

tacomancer

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No, I don't believe people become less valuable if they are poor. If they are criminally avoiding taxes though, that's another story.

I consider suffrage in a democracy to be fundamentally linked to human value, and as they say "all men are created equal"
 

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Government has to treat its citizens with equal respect and it must treat its citizens as morally responsible (hence self-government) to remain legitimate. Taking away voting based on income taxes pretty much violates both of these.

I should add that this applies to people who are both reasonable and rational.
 
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Gipper

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megaprogman said:
I consider suffrage in a democracy to be fundamentally linked to human value, and as they say "all men are created equal"

Too bad men who have just been created can't vote. After 18 years, they're all different.

The meritocrat in me would really love to see this, but ultimately I couldn't agree with it - despite the amount of far-left people that would be sent home in November because of it.
 

roughdraft274

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(Question prompted by a recent post.)

If 37% of Americans pay no income tax isn't there a real danger that these same people don't CARE how much our government spends? Don't WANT to control entitlements?

Why should people who don't "put their money where their mouth is" be allowed a voice in determining how money is spent?

My signature line reads: "Those who rob from Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support." Isn't there a real danger in that?

How many different types of taxes do people pay in any given day? I pay my sales tax, property tax, I pay tax on my gasoline when I fill up, etc. etc. Just because someone doesn't pay income tax it shouldn't prevent them from voting. Why don't we raise that standard real high and say that millionaires have much more to lose therefore if you don't have enough money to qualify for the estate tax (I'm not sure fo the exact number but it's in the 7 digit range I think) then you get no votes.

A vote isn't just determining how money is spent. Some people might vote based off of moral issues or foreign policy. To tell someone that they don't earn enough money to vote would be taking a dozen steps back.
 

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Because of cancer, my wife is handicapped and cannot work nor drive.

I'd like to believe that she is still a citizen and cares about her country.

Seriously, can those of you supporting this idea be any more heartless and neanderthal?
 

Gipper

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Seriously, can those of you supporting this idea be any more heartless and neanderthal?

Sure I could. Maybe by suggesting that no public funds go toward someone who isn't putting into the pot, and being apathetic if your insurance carrier drops her.

If you want to break rocks, I can keep going. I'll break out that large E word.
 

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I do.



That's a fallacy. Pretty sure more people would mourn the death of Bill Gates than the death of Soccer Mom Sue.

Voting does not mean equal power, only equal access to power.
 

2000

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Because of cancer, my wife is handicapped and cannot work nor drive.

I'd like to believe that she is still a citizen and cares about her country.

Seriously, can those of you supporting this idea be any more heartless and neanderthal?

I'm abivalent on teh thread topic because I dont think there should be an icnome tax, but if youre wife is using social security, medicare, or medicaid, then youi and her realtives should be ashamed.
 

tacomancer

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I applaid your honesty, even if I completely disagree.

That's a fallacy. Pretty sure more people would mourn the death of Bill Gates than the death of Soccer Mom Sue.

I didn't say that all people had equal esteem, only that we were equally valuable.
 

MaggieD

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Well I am a full time student so I don't have a job hence I don't pay any income tax. So, why should I not be allowed to vote because I am a student?

Well, just for the sake of argument, let's say you can't vote because you don't pay taxes. Just by virtue you've reached a certain age and are going to school . . . why should that entitle you to vote? Why should you have a say in how tax money in spent when you don't contribute?

@ Megaprogram -- My suggestion doesn't imply that people are less valuable because they're poor. Just that those who don't contribute to the pot possibly shouldn't have a voice in how its spent.

Apparently the writer of the Declaration of Independence agreed since he obviously DIDN'T mean "all men were created equal." He meant "all free property-owning MALES" are created equal. Well, I, for one, am glad it evolved. ;-)

@ DRZ --
I should add that this applies to people who are both reasonable and rational.
Ha! That would be....according to whom?

@ Gipper -- You're right...never going to happen. But I think a fairly reasonable argument could be made as to why it should. Provided, of course, that we forget all about the Constitutional amendments. (AND provided one didn't get torn limb-from-limb in the process!)

@ 2000 -- You believe people are less valuable because they're poor? How very very sad. You said:
Pretty sure more people would mourn the death of Bill Gates than the death of Soccer Mom Sue.
I don't know who soccer mom Sue is, but I'd venture to guess that....mourn? Really mourn? Probably about equal.
 

drz-400

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Sure I could. Maybe by suggesting that no public funds go toward someone who isn't putting into the pot, and being apathetic if your insurance carrier drops her.

If you want to break rocks, I can keep going. I'll break out that large E word.

Everything the government does has distributive consequences, so what you suggest is impossible.
 

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That's a fallacy. Pretty sure more people would mourn the death of Bill Gates than the death of Soccer Mom Sue.
so....if you have money, you are better than a guy/girl who doesnt? horseshyt
 

roughdraft274

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Apparently the writer of the Declaration of Independence agreed since he obviously DIDN'T mean "all men were created equal." He meant "all free property-owning MALES" are created equal. Well, I, for one, am glad it evolved. ;-)

If you're glad it has evolved then why are you trying to take it backwards?
 

tacomancer

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@ Megaprogram -- My suggestion doesn't imply that people are less valuable because they're poor. Just that those who don't contribute to the pot possibly shouldn't have a voice in how its spent.

Apparently the writer of the Declaration of Independence agreed since he obviously DIDN'T mean "all men were created equal." He meant "all free property-owning MALES" are created equal. Well, I, for one, am glad it evolved. ;-)

Well, I don't really care what the founders thought as they are dead and today it is our country. However, those two statements seem like a contradiction to me. Either we are equal in a democracy (in certain fundamental ways) or we are not. Looking at what you stated, it seems to me that the founders were hypocrites.
 
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2000

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@ 2000 -- You believe people are less valuable because they're poor? How very very sad. You said:I don't know who soccer mom Sue is, but I'd venture to guess that....mourn? Really mourn? Probably about equal.

A pregnant, teenaged pill-popper on the street is definitely less valuable to the world than say the president or some top Ceos, hell shes not even as valuable as the line cook at mcdonadls. To suggest otherwise is thinking with your emotions and not your head.
 

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Sure I could. Maybe by suggesting that no public funds go toward someone who isn't putting into the pot, and being apathetic if your insurance carrier drops her.

If you want to break rocks, I can keep going. I'll break out that large E word.

Ah, well then I stand corrected. You CAN be more neanderthal after all.
 

drz-400

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@ DRZ -- Ha! That would be....according to whom?

rational - an individual with the powers of judgement and consideration for its own interests.

reasonable - the desire to engage in fair cooperation with others.
 

2000

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so....if you have money, you are better than a guy/girl who doesnt? horseshyt

most of the time. there are obviously examples like paris hilton who didm t do jack **** but most people worked hard for their money and the poeple who dont have a lot of money are generally dumb.
 

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@ Roughdraft -- You said:
A vote isn't just determining how money is spent. Some people might vote based off of moral issues or foreign policy. To tell someone that they don't earn enough money to vote would be taking a dozen steps back.
Excellent point.

@ Grouch -- I really don't see very many supporting it. Do you? I am sorry for your wife's illness. I really am. I wish you both well.
 

tacomancer

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A pregnant, teenaged pill-popper on the street is definitely less valuable to the world than say the president or some top Ceos, hell shes not even as valuable as the line cook at mcdonadls. To suggest otherwise is thinking with your emotions and not your head.

Or simply one does not believe value rests in monetary considerations.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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(Question prompted by a recent post.)

If 37% of Americans pay no income tax isn't there a real danger that these same people don't CARE how much our government spends? Don't WANT to control entitlements?

Why should people who don't "put their money where their mouth is" be allowed a voice in determining how money is spent?

My signature line reads: "Those who rob from Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support." Isn't there a real danger in that?

I've never really been a fan on instant citizenship upon birth

Protecting basic rights equally, is fine.
Allowing everyone the full privileges of citizenship, that should be earned.
 

tacomancer

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I've never really been a fan on instant citizenship upon birth

Protecting basic rights equally, is fine.
Allowing everyone the full privileges of citizenship, that should be earned.

I would bring up heinlein, but I think we already had that conversation. However, that thought was a theme of the book starship troopers.
 
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