Should normal females be forced to compete against female-to-male transgenders in all sports?

[Juin]

You're wrong. Transgender incl transition to the sexual organs in both MtF and FtM. The trans also becomes a woman or man sexually, also with the aid of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT).

That's a counterfeit

 

[Juin]

What you want is that a trans female that walks onto a field of female competition be forcefully removed from the field and left with the only choice of competing against other trans, which would be involuntary choice, also known as forced. Giving a person who doesn't want what you leave them as their only choice is being forced. And, by your thinking, it will be enforced.

That's how it should be.

 

[Juin]

Bold text does not increase the impact of your stupid posts
They’re still painfully ignorant

You appear to have problems with counterfeits being called out for what they are.

 

[Ren]

That's 3 votes from women haters, and 4 votes that are not sure whether they hate women.

 

[Juin]

All this problems could be solved by: "No sports, please!"

It goes beyond sports. It messes with science as well. Biology books may have to revise how they refer to say male lions. How are we sure that that lion in question is not a trans?

 

[Juin]

To some extent, I agree. I suppose there could be levels where anybody can compete, but the level is based on, mostly, performance. As in major and minor leagues, varsity and JV. But a trans female ability to perform due to male hormones will gradually decrease and disappear over a few yrs, maybe 4 or 5, as testosterone levels go down. The "male advantage" argument is not so valid as pretended. But that fact known won't stop the Rep/cons from pushing a falsehood of "male advantage". Besides the fact that a trans FM deserves the same rights as everyone in society, incl the right to be who you are.

lol very funny. The trans has every right to be who they are. Not who they are not.

 

[bluesmoke]

Yeah. Their own category. Separate but equal.

A separate category just for them. How special. Just for them. A law for trans only. Discriminating against non-trans. Heh-heh.

 

[Juin]

A separate category just for them. How special. Just for them. A law for trans only. Discriminating against non-trans. Heh-heh.

They are category, are they not?

 

[bluesmoke]

I don't know any normal women......except mom of course.....

Mom was ahead of her time. Stubbornly defying normality.

 

[bluesmoke]

That's a counterfeit

It's medical fact.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

They are category, are they not?

Perhaps, but it's not really a uniform category, since sometime we hear that being trans is not about hormones or genitals or genetics, but it's about how one identifies, so that means that a sexually male college athlete could simply identify as female, and then that person is in fact a "real woman". To require hormone treatments or surgery would be discriminatory because it would not allow that person to compete according to "gender" unless the person takes drugs and undergoes surgery.

Other times, we hear that there are requirements of levels of hormones and/or presence/absence of certain surgically altered genitalia, in order to be considered trans for the purposes of competing. So, someone is making the determination of what level of testosterone and/or other hormones and what amount of physical alteration is required.

Also, sometimes we hear that gender isn't even binary anymore - so talking about men and women is inherently incorrect anyway, because there are dozens of "genders." So, can someone who doesn't identify as a woman compete against women if they identify as "non-binary" or "pangender" or "ambigender" or "gender outlaw?" Or, can they compete if they take the hormones even if they don't identify as a woman?

So, there isn't a single "category," it's a whole array - dare I say "constellation" -- of factors and people.

And is the real goal here to eliminate sex-based categories altogether, and create categories based only on hormone levels?

 

[bluesmoke]

lol very funny. The trans has every right to be who they are. Not who they are not.

Trans are who they are, not who either they once were perceived or as born. Hence "trans", meaning on or to the other side of.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Trans are who they are, not who either they once were perceived or as born. Hence "trans", meaning on or to the other side of.

They have a right to dress and speak and act however they want. They don't have a right to force you or me to have a specific opinion about them, or for male homo sapiens sapiens to compete against female homo sapiens sapiens in sports.

It is allowed for someone not to agree that there are 72 genders, or that gender is unrelated to biology.

 

[Mika-El]

Should trans be forced to compete against only same trans?


I think you meant "male-to-female". Yes?

He sounds confused. I am surprised. I thought Germans loved sausages.

 

[Mika-El]

Trans are who they are, not who either they once were perceived or as born. Hence "trans", meaning on or to the other side of.

Unless it has to do with the crap in my stomach and blood then they put the word fat after trans and apparently it sticks around.

 

[Mika-El]

On a more serious non trans fat, no sausage comment-the determination of what is a level or fair playing field for competitive sports yes has been made obsolete by persons in transition or have completed transition.

It clearly means new rules must be defined just as rules had to be changed and are still constantly being changed as athletes find more and more substances that may intentionally or unintentionally enhance performance and provide unfair advantage to certain athletes over others.

Its an ethical dilemma associated with applied and situational ethics considerations.

It will be dealt with, probably not as quickly as people want but in a way where hopefully the rules that come out will be fair to all.

In a nut shell, on one side of the equation will be a transgender athletes wanting to compete in the gender division with which they identify and on n the other side of the equation athletes arguing transgender athletes should not have any undue advantages from any chemicals they might take or obtain from inherent physical characteristics such as different body structure.,

Here is an example of the kind of debate that has arisen: it was suggested competitors should have their testosterone levels measured and then algorithms taken to determine their "advantages" and then to offset those advantages, those specific competitors with the identified advantages be fitted with weighted clothes and ask to compete on a different track or receive some other appropriate imposed limitation "handicap" before competing.

Of course the above problem may be impractical and it also needs to be noted that higher levels of testosterone do not automatically mean there is an athletic advantage.

Its not an easy dilemma to resolve.

In the interim there is one immediate issue. If you are in high school and you are born a woman but identify as a man or vice versa but have yet to take chemicals I am not sure there is any choice i n assuring fairness but to be respectful to such students and explain while their subjective identity chosen is one issue, for the purposes of which gender they partake in during sports, that will have to be determined by their birth reality until they complete physical transition. Other alternatives at this time may not be practical.

Few transgenders start the chemical transition while in high school so in the specific cases of those engaging in chemical changes it might mean they find themselves unable to compete but they still might be able to participate in non competitive sports or even team sports depending on school policies.

As for colleges and universities or associations with lucrative sports scholarships and sponsorship deals this area is a very complex one given the sheer amount of potential money involved.

So if someone is looking for a black and white solution and try melt this down into a simplistic question, you aint gonna get one.

 

[bluesmoke]

They have a right to dress and speak and act however they want. They don't have a right to force you or me to have a specific opinion about them, or for male homo sapiens sapiens to compete against female homo sapiens sapiens in sports.

It is allowed for someone not to agree that there are 72 genders, or that gender is unrelated to biology.

...the World Health Organization has been actively working towards removing transgender identity as a mental disorder, and succeeded in May 2019. Similar to how homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until 1987, each decade our society finds a way to label and stigmatize against those who ‘deviate’ from the established social norm. Just as author Ian Hacking has suggested, we often try to ‘make up’ people; that is we try to find a biological, genetic, or evolutionary reason behind their ‘deviation’. Possibly because if we determine a reason, it makes it easier to justify the criminalization and dehumanization of their behavior."

(See 4th para):

The Evolutionary Science Behind Gender

Is our sense of gender identity truly based solely on our social existence, or is there a biological basis behind the evolution of gender?

themetric.org

 

[vegas giants]

Trans people should not be discriminated against. But MtF trans should not be allowed to compete with women

That is discrimination against biological women

 

[bluesmoke]

On a more serious non trans fat, no sausage comment-the determination of what is a level or fair playing field for competitive sports yes has been made obsolete by persons in transition or have completed transition.

It clearly means new rules must be defined just as rules had to be changed and are still constantly being changed as athletes find more and more substances that may intentionally or unintentionally enhance performance and provide unfair advantage to certain athletes over others.

Its an ethical dilemma associated with applied and situational ethics considerations.

It will be dealt with, probably not as quickly as people want but in a way where hopefully the rules that come out will be fair to all.

In a nut shell, on one side of the equation will be a transgender athletes wanting to compete in the gender division with which they identify and on n the other side of the equation athletes arguing transgender athletes should not have any undue advantages from any chemicals they might take or obtain from inherent physical characteristics such as different body structure.,

Here is an example of the kind of debate that has arisen: it was suggested competitors should have their testosterone levels measured and then algorithms taken to determine their "advantages" and then to offset those advantages, those specific competitors with the identified advantages be fitted with weighted clothes and ask to compete on a different track or receive some other appropriate imposed limitation "handicap" before competing.

Of course the above problem may be impractical and it also needs to be noted that higher levels of testosterone do not automatically mean there is an athletic advantage.

Its not an easy dilemma to resolve.

In the interim there is one immediate issue. If you are in high school and you are born a woman but identify as a man or vice versa but have yet to take chemicals I am not sure there is any choice i n assuring fairness but to be respectful to such students and explain while their subjective identity chosen is one issue, for the purposes of which gender they partake in during sports, that will have to be determined by their birth reality until they complete physical transition. Other alternatives at this time may not be practical.

Few transgenders start the chemical transition while in high school so in the specific cases of those engaging in chemical changes it might mean they find themselves unable to compete but they still might be able to participate in non competitive sports or even team sports depending on school policies.

As for colleges and universities or associations with lucrative sports scholarships and sponsorship deals this area is a very complex one given the sheer amount of potential money involved.

So if someone is looking for a black and white solution and try melt this down into a simplistic question, you aint gonna get one.

Current Olympic rule on trans:

“The current Olympic rules acknowledge transgender athletes' right to compete, but with specific provisions under the Stockholm Consensus, which was adopted in 2004. The policies, adopted before the Athens Olympics, say transgender athletes have to have gender reassignment surgery and have legal recognition of the gender they were assigned at birth.”

The proposed Olympic policy change:

“…would allow transgender athletes to compete without having gender reassignment surgery. It only requires athletes to have completed at least one year of hormone replacement therapy.”

And

“The policy change would be in line with NCAA standards in the United States, which allow male-to-female and female-to-male transgender athletes to compete without having gender reassignment surgery, according to ESPN “

Olympics to allow transgender athletes to compete without gender reassignment surgery | Daily Mail Online

The Pros could do the same.

 

[vegas giants]

Current Olympic rule on trans:

“The current Olympic rules acknowledge transgender athletes' right to compete, but with specific provisions under the Stockholm Consensus, which was adopted in 2004. The policies, adopted before the Athens Olympics, say transgender athletes have to have gender reassignment surgery and have legal recognition of the gender they were assigned at birth.”

The proposed Olympic policy change:

“…would allow transgender athletes to compete without having gender reassignment surgery. It only requires athletes to have completed at least one year of hormone replacement therapy.”

And

“The policy change would be in line with NCAA standards in the United States, which allow male-to-female and female-to-male transgender athletes to compete without having gender reassignment surgery, according to ESPN “

Olympics to allow transgender athletes to compete without gender reassignment surgery | Daily Mail Online

The Pros could do the same.

That would result in discrimination against biological females

 

[bluesmoke]

They are category, are they not?

So are black people. The purpose of the category, intended or not, is used to marginalize those in that category.

 

[vegas giants]

So are black people. The purpose of the category, intended or not, is used to marginalize those in that category.

Black people with a medical condition that gives Them an advantage can't compete either

 

[VanceMack]

Why would we assume biological men should have to transform or take hormonal therapy when their 'gender' delusions can change every other month or so? Demi Lovato is a perfect example. One day she is a girl...the next day she is a boy. Then she is an it. Now she is back to being kind of a girl...today...kind of...maybe...probably...its fluid...so...we'll see.

I mean...that's all 'real'....right? So why would anyone demand men do anything but declare themselves as women to compete against other women?

Frankly...the answer is obvious. Since women can do anything men can do and women can compete just like men, end the gender associated categories. No more WNBA...just the NBA. Men and women, competing fairly and equally...what could be more right?

 

[Perotista]

Another question:​

Should normal females be forced to compete against female-to-male transgenders in all sports?​

When it comes to sporting events, the athletes aren’t forced to compete or take part. It’s their decision. Now how the divisions or categories of competition, on who can or can’t participate in each category is forced. We have weight classes in various sports like boxing, we have age classes in little league, gender classes in such things as golf, soccer, baseball, basketball, track and field etc.

Should a biological male who now states he’s a female be allowed to participate in female sports? I think being a biological male gives that person an advantage over biological females in High School and in college sports. For me, the question of, is it fair to biological females must compete against biological males because the male now says he is a female? It boils down to fairness in my opinion which I answer no. It isn’t fair to either biological females or the female sport their competing in.

 

[rahl]

It's medical fact.

nope. A male can not "transition" into a female. Cosmetic surgery does not alter your DNA